Uk Prius Phev Cost Released (It Aint Cheap!)

[Grumpy Cabbie]

The price of the forthcoming Prius PHEV has been released for the important UK market. It comes in at £31,000 inc vat. There is a £5,000 Government EV grant to be deducted off this making a wallet busting price of £26,000.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/sep/23/toyota-plugin-prius-ampera?newsfeed=true

Being a bit of a cynic I think Toyota have deliberately priced it to be the same as the Nissan Leaf and a couple of grand less than the Ampera. Will they pull it off though? Do you pay £20k for a 'normal' Prius, £26k for the PHEV or £28 for a Volt or £17,850 for the Renault Fluence ZE? OK with the Renault you have to lease the HV Battery but with the savings made against the other three you could still buy yourself a small petrol car for those longer journies OR rent a petrol car when needed.

Funny how manufacturers appear to manipulate prices when grants/incentives are given by Governments! With the budget cuts happening at the moment I give it 3 months before a Government minister cottons on to this and removes the incentives.

Anyhow, with the base existing Prius coming in at £20,800 even the most optimistic projections can't even begin to make the PHEV viable financially - even with petrol costing £1.35 a litre.

It will now be removed from my Birthday wish list

[Ancient Nerd]

Hi Grumpy,

I also have severe doubts about how long the batteries will last. AFAIK, although Li-on batteries have much greater capacities than the current Prius Nimh, they are a lot less stable than the existing Nimh and just don't have the ability to recycle as often, even with limited discharge.

There is an expression about bargepoles that sums up my view of any car with a Li-on Battery. Unless of course Toyota offered a 100,000 mile extended warranty for the same £195 they are asking to extend the warranty of the early Prius IIIs.

Plus of course the necessary accident insurance to cover the risk of fire or explosion. Just look at the number of large scale recalls of laptop and mobile phone batteries.

I think I'll wait for an effective methane fuel cell.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Was that £195 to increase the hybrid warranty to 100,000 miles or the 'normal' warranty?

Only reason I ask is that I have been assured by my dealers that the gen3 has a 100,000 hybrid warranty regardless of when it was built/registered. I will be getting this in writing before I hit the 60k mile mark (not long to go as I'm at about 57.5k at the mo).

[Jan&tone]

Wasn't the 5k gpvernment subsidy only available up to 3 million or something? I'm pretty sure it wasn't a 'forever' deal anyway!,

[Seamaster73]

Never mind that, the bigger news is the return of GC — welcome back!

[Chris Dance]

Pleased to see you posting again Grumpy.

The PHEV does not seem a practical proposition for our family. It is not only the price. I am informed its range is not too good either. I suppose it is OK for local running and then there are warranty issues.

What about the 7 seater Prius as your taxi Grumpy?

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Pleased to see you posting again Grumpy.

The PHEV does not seem a practical proposition for our family. It is not only the price. I am informed its range is not too good either. I suppose it is OK for local running and then there are warranty issues.

What about the 7 seater Prius as your taxi Grumpy?

Well it isn't because of the 'friendly' moderators on this forum that's for sure! :!Removed!: (negative reputation for my last post?!? wtf?)

My Prius is doing ok but hasn't been 100% reliable in that it had a whole steering column assembly replaced under warranty at about 45k miles and will need it replacing again at 57k miles! As this is under warranty I'm not too bothered other than losing a days work BUT at £1,300 + vat + fitting, I would not be happy to have to replace this item myself! It is my understanding from the US forums that there are two different steering columns - one for the 'base' models and one for the higher models. If we relate their models to ours then perhaps the t3 has the crappy steering system and the t4 & tspirit getting the better ones maybe?

I've also had a seized rear caliper, a HV Battery ECU control unit, and a passenger seat base & seat belt holder replaced under warranty! OK I think a lot of this is due to my car being a really early version - chassis # ***206.

So would I get another Prius? Oh yes - still getting 50-52 mpg average now over the last 12 months. Just renewed my second lot of car tax at £0 and the later versions get a 100k mile warranty which is over 3 years peace of mind for me at my mileage. I think Toyota are starting to price themselves out of the market though as the cost just keeps creeping up; it was £18,500 2 years ago and £20,850 now! I would have liked a PHEV but the price is just taking the **** and the 7 seater Prius has yet to have its price released but is likely to be £26-£28k which is just too much again. I've never had a problem with the Prius boot so far (other than the clown with 8 suitcases who didn't mention this important fact when booking!)

Sounds like another Prius for me next but I'll wait until the facelift model is released 2nd quarter 2012.

[Seamaster73]

(negative reputation for my last post?!? wtf?)

Check mine out — all because some knuckle-dragger took exception to my comments about diseasels.

[dervdave]

Check mine out — all because some knuckle-dragger took exception to my comments about diseasels.

Was it me ? :D

[kithmo]

I think Toyota have shot themselves in the foot with this one. IMO 26K is about the right price before taking off the government grant making it around the same price as a normal prius after. This gives buyers the option of PHV or not PHV thus tempting the buyers to go for it, which is what the government grant incentive was designed for. Instead Toyota have been greedy and negated the grant's purpose. I hope they don't sell many, it'll cost us taxpayers a little less. :censor:

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I was all for the grants but seeing this cynical manipulation so soon just smacks of blatant profiteering. Very poor Toyota.

[Jan&tone]

I was all for the grants but seeing this cynical manipulation so soon just smacks of blatant profiteering. Very poor Toyota.

Hey Grumpy, 'tis good to see you posting again pal... As for Mr T being cynical about the government grants, it ain't just them mate, all the manufacturers will do the same, Some people will buy the cars at the inflated prices, I won't as I don't have a power socket in my garage, but they won't take off till the price comes down, and it won't come down till the government grant runs out!

[r04drunner1]

Well it isn't because of the 'friendly' moderators on this forum that's for sure! :!Removed!: (negative reputation for my last post?!? wtf?)

Welcome back GC. Good to see you posting in here.

I don't think the moderators have any control over the +/- marks on a post, it's a user driven thing.

My rep was pretty badly negative at one stage and I still don't have any clue as to why. The Board doesn't give you the chance to go back and highlight the posts that incurred the most user wrath. I could have evaluated the rating more constructively if I had had the chance!

As a matter of policy now I tend to give a +1 when I see something I really like. It's easy enough to do, I just click the green (+) button on the bottom right hand side of the post. Hopefully that spreads the lurve a bit more!

To return to topic, I am gutted to hear that the PHEV is going to be sooo expensive. I had really been looking forward to the extended range/MPH on EV mode.

[johalareewi]

Welcome back GC.

Thanks for the heads up about the steering column on the T3. Am just coming up to 40K so might get this too

I was hoping that the PHEV + government subsidy would put it at a similar price level as a standard Prius (to encourage the take up) but at these prices, it looks like I will be hanging on to my T3 for a lot longer.

[korat102]

That's way out of my price range. I originally bought a Toyota because they had a reputation for good dealers and excellent reliability at a reasonable cost. The dealer I use has been pretty good and the car, apart from a few recalls, has been extremely reliable.

There's a problem now though, as the car gets older and my feet get itchy for something new. The prices are skyrocketing for some vehicles and Toyota's new strange idea of not having spare wheels in half of their range really means they're no longer making many cars that I would feel comfortable in. Where to go then is the problem...

[cbcdesign]

Its a crazy pricing policy frankly. If the car is too expensive and the daily millage is high, the savings are are not there so its not worth buying the vehicle!

[kithmo]

The rate the energy suppliers are putting electricity prices up it won't be cost effective to run an electric vehicle soon. The premium paid for the vehicle plus the high price of electricty and the high depreciation, due to the feared cost of new batteries, means it's cheaper to run a hybrid if you need an automatic or one of these eco cars if you don't.

[Flaninacupboard]

I think the PHEV price is pretty good. My PHEV mod cost about £2.5k in total, and will take about 5 years to "pay back", assuming petrol prices don't go up (they will) and i don't ever get charging at work (i will). regardless of the cost/savings i've enjoyed having a PHEV as a hobby and a talking point. so the official car won't be a hobby but it will be a talking point/game.

Don't forget, for someone switching from a company Insignia to a company Prius, working in London, would save £2,000 just on congestion charge, plus very low benefit in kind taxation. road tax and 100% write down also make it attractive. the fuel savings on top of that do make financial sense for fleet buyers. that's good, since a 3 year old PHEV for ~£10k would be a cracking deal.

The cynicism is right though, the price is high just to capitalise. i don't have a huge problem with that, given Toyotas commitment to producing a hybrid of every model...

[timberwolf]

I think the PHEV price is pretty good. My PHEV mod cost about £2.5k in total, and will take about 5 years to "pay back", assuming petrol prices don't go up (they will) and i don't ever get charging at work (i will). regardless of the cost/savings i've enjoyed having a PHEV as a hobby and a talking point. so the official car won't be a hobby but it will be a talking point/game.

Don't forget, for someone switching from a company Insignia to a company Prius, working in London, would save £2,000 just on congestion charge, plus very low benefit in kind taxation. road tax and 100% write down also make it attractive. the fuel savings on top of that do make financial sense for fleet buyers. that's good, since a 3 year old PHEV for ~£10k would be a cracking deal.

The cynicism is right though, the price is high just to capitalise. i don't have a huge problem with that, given Toyotas commitment to producing a hybrid of every model...

As the official PHEV is about £10k more than regular Gen 3, based on your "pay back" that would mean 20 years until break even? I've assumed the govt subsidy pot has run out and you have to pay the full price for the PHEV.

[Flaninacupboard]

As the official PHEV is about £10k more than regular Gen 3, based on your "pay back" that would mean 20 years until break even? I've assumed the govt subsidy pot has run out and you have to pay the full price for the PHEV.

That depends. I haven't seen the final spec of the PHV model, so it may be closer to a T-Spirit than a T3, which, if you were going to buy a T-Spirit anyway, makes the maths slightly different. The official PHV also delivers a bigger benefit than my conversion (i can run in the normal EV mode under 30mph, the normal stealth mode up to 46mph, and then must run in blended mode above that. My pack takes about 32 miles to deplete, the PHV depletes faster/assists more. i can only benefit from one charge per day, but with the PHV and my 26 mile commute i could benefit from 2 charges per day, easily reaching several hundred MPG rather than a mere 100) and i am not in London, or paying company car benefit in kind.

I say "pay back" anyway, because i see people spend far more on bigger brakes, leather interiors, fancy DVD head units, subs, spoilers, wheels, tinted windows, noisy exhausts, ugly bumpers, aluminium aerials, lowering kits etc etc etc. What is the pay back on those things?

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I object to what I personally see as blatant profiteering by Toyota. If there had been no £5k grant the PHEV would have been £26k anyway. Just watch the price drop down once the grants are all used up. You could say it's just business practice but that £5k grant is OUR money.

[Flaninacupboard]

I object to what I personally see as blatant profiteering by Toyota. If there had been no £5k grant the PHEV would have been £26k anyway. Just watch the price drop down once the grants are all used up. You could say it's just business practice but that £5k grant is OUR money.

And i'd rather Toyota had it and used it to bring us a Yaris hybrid and an Accord hybrid than it got spent on something useless (our government are pretty good at wasting money).

[timberwolf]

As the official PHEV is about £10k more than regular Gen 3, based on your "pay back" that would mean 20 years until break even? I've assumed the govt subsidy pot has run out and you have to pay the full price for the PHEV.

<snip>

I say "pay back" anyway, because i see people spend far more on bigger brakes, leather interiors, fancy DVD head units, subs, spoilers, wheels, tinted windows, noisy exhausts, ugly bumpers, aluminium aerials, lowering kits etc etc etc. What is the pay back on those things?

Indeed. But, those things appeal to someone's senses. I don't think they are added to increase mpg? Whereas, if a device purports to increase my mpg then I think it is natural to question if it does pay for itself, you did in your post.

Grumpy, I think that's just the tip of the iceberg...

[Cyker]

Roll on Yaris Hybrid :D

[Flaninacupboard]

Indeed. But, those things appeal to someone's senses. I don't think they are added to increase mpg? Whereas, if a device purports to increase my mpg then I think it is natural to question if it does pay for itself, you did in your post.

Grumpy, I think that's just the tip of the iceberg...

Some people do get the Prius for reduced emissions more than anything else, and a PHEV system charged from renewables certainly supports that. Or, maybe people just want to use less oil/petroleum products, it supports that too. there's more motivation reasons than just saving money.