Dodgy Toyota Dealership Re Failed Emissions Test?

[Christyt999]

Hi there,

I wanted to run this by experienced types on this forum.

My Avensis 03 GS failed the emissions test on MOT last Wednesday.

MOT place wasn't a repair shop so recommended I take it to Toyota dealership to check out. They couldn't be sure what was problem but doubted it was the catalytic converter.

FIRST MOT FAIL RESULTS:

Fast Idle:

CO - 2.07% vol - FAIL

HC - 140ppm vol - PASS

L - 0.944 - FAIL

Second Fast Idle:

CO - 4.29% vol - FAIL

HC - 259 ppm vol - FAIL

L - 0.880 - FAIL

Natural Idle:

CO - 0.50 vol - PASS

Went to local dealership and left it with them to check out - they called me at end of day to recommend I replace the catalytic converter (not sure which one) for £1400.

I looked around on these and other forums and it seemed like quite a big punt that changing the cat would work - and if it was the cat, there would probably be an underlying problem too.

Also lots of people recommended using engine cleaner and running it up hot down the motorway to clear out engine, and maybe changing oil.

I decided to change the oil and filters, talked at length twice to Toyota mechanics to find out how certain they were about it (not very) and check they'd looked at other stuff like Oxygen sensors, sparks etc. Apparently they had.

Still unsure of what to do I talked to a second mechanic later in day and he offered to try putting engine cleaner in, drive it home over night and run it in hot and do a test first thing the next day.

I was v grateful - felt like was doing me a favour and lo and behold, it worked.

Passed the test straight off. Problem solved.

HOWEVER - when I went to get car, paid bill and got paperwork, it transpired they'd done another emissions test as soon as they looked at the car...and it had already passed the emissions test. They didn't tell me that.

Their results were:

FAST IDLE TEST:

CO - 0.17 - PASS

HC - 187ppm - PASS

L - 0.99 - PASS

Natural Idle:

CO - 0.17% - PASS

IE - they were asked to sort out the emissions problem, did a test themselves, car passed - but they didn't tell me this and recommended I replace the catalytic converter at high cost and uncertain results.

I'm fairly sure this is malpractice of some kind - at the very least taking the p***.

Would there be any point in going to the garage - customer services - or further up and complaining about this?

Grateful for any realistic opinions on this...

[cmia]

complain

[bestseany]

Even on the pass the HC's seem very high. That normally means it's overfuelling so could be a dodgy O2 sensor which is very common on the Avensis.

[Konrad C]

Christy,

Quick recap, You took car to independent MOT station - It failed the emissions test.

You went to Toyota dealership to fix the car. They recommend you change the 'cat' at £1400.

Then you got a second opinion from another mechanic (very wise). Was the mechanic at the same dealership or another garage?

All the time the car was now fit to retake and pass the test (Which you discovered later)!

The main point is that you should complain and if you don't get the right response, name and shame!

Someone was giving you the run around.

I wonder if the MOT testing equipment was properly calibrated and the car warmed up properly.

Next time, you should get the car serviced before the next test to help it through.

You did the right thing and kept £1400 in your pocket and questioning the Toyota dealership.

Actually you may have helped others reading this.

Others may have a better opinion.

[Christyt999]

Hi - thanks for all the replies...

Konrad C - I don't think I was clear in my initial post.

I didn't get a second opinion - I got a council MOT and failed emissions test. Then gave the Car to Toyota to find the problem. Toyota then did an emissions test (they didn't tell me about this - I only found out when paid up and got paperwork from them) which PASSED.

So Toyota had a passed emissions test and went on to tell me I needed a CAT to sort the emissions problem.

Later they offered 'very kindly' to warm up the car and put engine cleaner in to get it through the emissions test and re-do the MOT.

I didn't have time to get a second opinion because I was working. And anyway, they 'solved' the problem so wasn't necessary.

I feel it's worth a question to the Toyota manager but not sure what I can expect other than them saying 'we thought you needed a new cat anyway' or some other excuse.

I'd quite like my moneyback on the engine cleaner and petrol /service charge for running it down the road as a token but I'm sure they'll fudge and technify themselves out of it.

[Konrad C]

Christy,

One other thing.

I hope they were not trying it on as you are female. Just a thought.

If I read your response, your car passed the emissions without anything being done. That is why i mentioned the equipment being calibrated - both the council and the Toyota garage.

There was a recent discussion about council test centres in this forum.

Let us know if the Dealership respond to your queries.

[Daveyonthemove]

Hi - thanks for all the replies...

Konrad C - I don't think I was clear in my initial post.

I didn't get a second opinion - I got a council MOT and failed emissions test. Then gave the Car to Toyota to find the problem. Toyota then did an emissions test (they didn't tell me about this - I only found out when paid up and got paperwork from them) which PASSED.

So Toyota had a passed emissions test and went on to tell me I needed a CAT to sort the emissions problem.

Later they offered 'very kindly' to warm up the car and put engine cleaner in to get it through the emissions test and re-do the MOT.

I didn't have time to get a second opinion because I was working. And anyway, they 'solved' the problem so wasn't necessary.

I feel it's worth a question to the Toyota manager but not sure what I can expect other than them saying 'we thought you needed a new cat anyway' or some other excuse.

I'd quite like my moneyback on the engine cleaner and petrol /service charge for running it down the road as a token but I'm sure they'll fudge and technify themselves out of it.

If the car passed without any work being done, then i would go back to the test centre and demand a refund.

If they refuse, then inform them that you will be contacting trading standards about their recommendation to replace expensive parts when there was obviously no need to. I imagine they will open the till and pull out your cash pretty quickly.

[Christyt999]

Konrad - I have no doubt being a woman was probably be a factor. It's only forums like this that have given me the information to enable me to check up on what I'm told and the confidence to challenge these guys at all.

I think the car wasn't warmed up properly for the first failed Council MOT test. They did seem to be trying to get me through the test - kept it running for much longer than on a normal test etc. They had nothing to gain by failing me.

However Toyota, they plainly got the car through the emissions test but proceeded to try and squeeze whatever they could out of me.

When I'm feeling strong (!) I'll get on the phone and see what they have to say about this. Trading standards is a good idea Daveyonthemove.

If you have the link to the discussion you mention on Council MOTs I'd be interested to see it too Konrad.

Thanks again for all responses. Much appreciated.

Will update if anything to report.

[acetip]

It pays before taking a car in for MOT to give it a good hard run,more so a diesel.this not only gets the car up to good temp,and hoping the inspection starts as soon as you drop the car off,it also blows out the "cobwebs" out of a car thats used mainly for short runs.

i used this method for 15 years on my old passet td, never failed the test on omissions,and only once on anything else,a corroded brake pipe.

[Konrad C]

Hi Again Christie,

I was enjoying the weather and was in Brighton for the Brighton Breeze - VW cars & vans. I even cycled the Brighton bike ride in June!

Back to the topic in hand, here is the link to the other post regarding Council MOT tests - http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=128348&st=0&p=1141713&hl=council&fromsearch=1entry1141713

It was on this forum from the 5th of September. (I hope I don't get into trouble!).

Acetip's advice is valid. When cars are driven in town, they get a build up of soot like muck. A good drive at high speed blow s this muck out.

[Christyt999]

Hi there

Quick update - only just got around to calling the Toyota garage about the above emissions issue - the manager is going to look into it. He said it sounded odd and was courteous at least.

Should get some response by mid next week. Will report back.

[Christyt999]

Hi all,

Toyota just got back to me after I sent them a forensic snotty letter re their 'forgetting' to tell me my car had passed the emissions test.

They have said it was basically an 'honest mistake' and agreed to pay back the £200+ I ended up spending with them. Something about the historical codes they found in the scan had been cross -referenced on the Toyota mainframe and that was why they recommended to replace the CAT. Plus they were busy so didn't tell me everything.

Bit hard to believe seeing as I talked to the mechanic at length twice.

I think what really spooked them was I threw in a not very veiled threat to report them to Trading Standards so thanks to Daveyonthemove for that.

Thanks to everyone who posted - stupid as it sounds you gave me the courage to stand up for myself so very grateful for that.

Even if they'd not refunded the cash, I don't think these sort of things should be let pass.

Hope maybe this helps someone else in future.

Cheers!

[cmia]

good result.

[Konrad C]

Well done, Christy.