Yet Another T180 Oil Consumption Thread

[Mistermena]

Hi all

Could someone please explain to me this 2.2 diesel engine issue. I have an 06 (no problem) but 'am I covered' if one develops.

mike

Toyota have initiated an extended warranty on the 2.2 diesel engines as in our RAVs up to circa early 2009 build date, as a result of the oil consumption issue.

The extended warranty is for seven years or 120K miles and is dependent on the car having been 'reasonably serviced' i.e. by a VAT registered garage

All correct apart from the milage mate. its 112k.

We're both wrong - it's 111,846 miles [mind you were closer ]

Yer you're correct mate. I was gonna look up the TSB for the exact figure. But 112k was close enough.

[blue monster]

Pleased to hear that Mate.. You will be very pleased when the new engine is in !! If Its like My one it will be quieter smoother with seemingly more go. And far better on fuel !! And Yes You are right Toyota are dealing with this issue very well indeed !!

Are You going to have the clutch replaced ? It cost Me 280 quid for the parts and of course there was no labour charge. I would certainly recommend this !!!

Mate I cant see 1500 miles being an issue ???? I would rather be putting that money towards a clutch assembly... I feel sure that Lindop will see no point in servicing an engine that is to be replaced !! There really is no point..

Perhaps if You book the car in for the remainder of the service procedure when the engine gets changed that would be sufficient ??

I was told 2 days to 4 weeks for an engine to arrive. It took days Mate ... So hold fire on that service as it would be a shame to get it done only for the engine to arrive a few days later ...

Wee Charlie.

The guy in Lindops advised that there is a 1k tolerance for service intervals to ensure that you stay within warranty guidelines - so I will go with whatever they say to make things as easy as possible.

As for the actual service on the engine - surely all that is done on a diesel engine at 40k is change the oil & filter? I am guessing that if any thing else is replaced like fuel filter or air filter then they will be carried over to the new engine?

Everything else non engine related needs to be done anyway or I am missing some thing here? If I pay for oil that gets dropped because of a new engine, it's not the end of the world.

As for the clutch, I like the idea but does any one know how long these typically last as if a clutch will do say 150k, is there much point now?

[Mistermena]

Pleased to hear that Mate.. You will be very pleased when the new engine is in !! If Its like My one it will be quieter smoother with seemingly more go. And far better on fuel !! And Yes You are right Toyota are dealing with this issue very well indeed !!

Are You going to have the clutch replaced ? It cost Me 280 quid for the parts and of course there was no labour charge. I would certainly recommend this !!!

Mate I cant see 1500 miles being an issue ???? I would rather be putting that money towards a clutch assembly... I feel sure that Lindop will see no point in servicing an engine that is to be replaced !! There really is no point..

Perhaps if You book the car in for the remainder of the service procedure when the engine gets changed that would be sufficient ??

I was told 2 days to 4 weeks for an engine to arrive. It took days Mate ... So hold fire on that service as it would be a shame to get it done only for the engine to arrive a few days later ...

Wee Charlie.

The guy in Lindops advised that there is a 1k tolerance for service intervals to ensure that you stay within warranty guidelines - so I will go with whatever they say to make things as easy as possible.

As for the actual service on the engine - surely all that is done on a diesel engine at 40k is change the oil & filter? I am guessing that if any thing else is replaced like fuel filter or air filter then they will be carried over to the new engine?

Everything else non engine related needs to be done anyway or I am missing some thing here? If I pay for oil that gets dropped because of a new engine, it's not the end of the world.

As for the clutch, I like the idea but does any one know how long these typically last as if a clutch will do say 150k, is there much point now?

I don't think you'll get a new fuel and air filter. It wasn't listed on my parts list. You should get a new EGR valve/ 5th injectoe/DPF ect. You'll get a new oil filter for sure. The clutch really depends on how it gets used. But when mine was done I asked them to check it (As I already had a spare genuine DMF and clutch kit) and they said it had loads of meat on it as it had been done about 40k ago.

So I'd let the tech take a look at it and take it from there. If it needs doing just have it done as its around the 5-7 hours labour charge for the job if the gearbox wasn't off.

[CharlieFarlie]

Pleased to hear that Mate.. You will be very pleased when the new engine is in !! If Its like My one it will be quieter smoother with seemingly more go. And far better on fuel !! And Yes You are right Toyota are dealing with this issue very well indeed !!

Are You going to have the clutch replaced ? It cost Me 280 quid for the parts and of course there was no labour charge. I would certainly recommend this !!!

Mate I cant see 1500 miles being an issue ???? I would rather be putting that money towards a clutch assembly... I feel sure that Lindop will see no point in servicing an engine that is to be replaced !! There really is no point..

Perhaps if You book the car in for the remainder of the service procedure when the engine gets changed that would be sufficient ??

I was told 2 days to 4 weeks for an engine to arrive. It took days Mate ... So hold fire on that service as it would be a shame to get it done only for the engine to arrive a few days later ...

Wee Charlie.

The guy in Lindops advised that there is a 1k tolerance for service intervals to ensure that you stay within warranty guidelines - so I will go with whatever they say to make things as easy as possible.

As for the actual service on the engine - surely all that is done on a diesel engine at 40k is change the oil & filter? I am guessing that if any thing else is replaced like fuel filter or air filter then they will be carried over to the new engine?

Everything else non engine related needs to be done anyway or I am missing some thing here? If I pay for oil that gets dropped because of a new engine, it's not the end of the world.

As for the clutch, I like the idea but does any one know how long these typically last as if a clutch will do say 150k, is there much point now?

Fair call on the engine service... As for the clutch.. Well mileage is one thing but its how the car has been driven that will determine the wear rate. I just wanted total peace of mind ! My car was at 45K miles when the engine was done and I was told that it was an 11 hour job normally..

I guess its how many miles You do and how long you intend keeping the car ??

One things for sure My car now changes gear like never before especially between 1st and second gear. That added to the peace of mind ? Bargain I would say ....

Wee Charlie.

[blue monster]

To your point mate about mileage, it may be worth doing it with the wife clocking 20k per year - out of curiousity - what does it cost to get a clutch replaced normally (parts & labour)??

I am guessing some thing like £900 based upon £270 for the clutch + £600ish labour??

[CharlieFarlie]

I was told £1100 by the service manager at Westlands Toyota.

Wee Charlie.

[blue monster]

What the !!!!!!!

Okay, decision made, clutch will be getting replaced

[pal1]

Hi dav,

Thanks for that, do the piston rings cause this oil consumption issue ? it seems quite drastic to change an engine due to that. Mine has done 45k just had its 5 year service from Mr T, so I assume I'm covered !!

mike

[Davrav]

Hi dav,

Thanks for that, do the piston rings cause this oil consumption issue ? it seems quite drastic to change an engine due to that. Mine has done 45k just had its 5 year service from Mr T, so I assume I'm covered !!

mike

I believe the piston rings are a contributing factor - I think the early remedy involved replacement with modified pistons and rings but they seem to have moved to replacing the major part of the engine now. Probably more economic and reliable in the long run.

Fair do's to Toyota for sorting the issue - though I suspect they cannot afford another round of negative publicity like the accelerator pedal debacle

[anchorman]

I think Lindops will be quite flexible and you should ask for a service less the engine items that come with the engine.

It consists of a transmission oil change and things like the fuel filter, air filter, cabin filter and brake fluid are all add ons. You could ask them to substitute some of these items for the engine oil and filter change.

The clutch is probably prudent if you are doing high mileage. You may also find that they change many other items in the warranty work and the cost can vary from £6000 to £10000 so your add ons are cheap in the scheme of things.

[wardude]

PAL1

If you aint owned your Rav since new, ,may i suggest you ring Toyota GB and ask if you car had the mods done to the engine. I rang them regarding mine and was told it had new piston rings etc, head gasket and front exhaust pipe replaced beforew i got the car and all due to high oil consumption. My car does not use ANY oil at all. i check it weekly and still have never had to put a drop in. It has don3 70k miles now.

[blue monster]

So, I am right in thinking that things like air filter & fuel filter will get carried over to the new engine or am I going to end up paying for these items & gearbox oil only for them to be binned in a few weeks?

Also, I want to put my own oil in to the new engine which is Mobil 1 5w30 ESP fully synthetic.

Is this oil suitable for a brand new engine or does it not really make any difference and will the new engine need to be run in?

I am keen to use this oil as I have 15+ litres of it sat in my garage

[CharlieFarlie]

So, I am right in thinking that things like air filter & fuel filter will get carried over to the new engine or am I going to end up paying for these items & gearbox oil only for them to be binned in a few weeks?

Also, I want to put my own oil in to the new engine which is Mobil 1 5w30 ESP fully synthetic.

Is this oil suitable for a brand new engine or does it not really make any difference and will the new engine need to be run in?

I am keen to use this oil as I have 15+ litres of it sat in my garage

Blue.. Mate I believe You will pay again. Thats why I said to think about doing it... Plus I would have a fair bet the engine arrives sooner rather than later..

As for putting a super high quality fully synthetic oil straight into what equates to a new engine surely doing this wont allow the engine to run/bed in ??

Your new engine will come with new oil in it anyway and this is not charged for. So save Your Mobil1 until the first change. It will also be the cleanest oil You will have ever seen 5K miles in and My oil is only just starting to darken !!

Wee Charlie.

[blue monster]

I've been having a good think about how to best do this and have come to the conclusion of just to bite the bullet & pay for the service as I don't know when this engine is going to turn up.

The main reason for doing this is to uphold the warranty and we are restricted by this 1k mileage tolerance. The only way to prevent my wife from doing 1500 miles over the next 3 weeks (assuming the engine has arrived by then) is to let her take my car & I take the rav as I do a fraction of the miles she does. The downside to that is 1500 miles in my motor is roughly 6 tanks of fuel which will cost more than the service!!

Service is booked for tomorrow so I will see then if there are any savings to he had.

I will let you know how I get on

[CharlieFarlie]

Surely Lindops will just service the whole car but not the engine and still stamp the book ? I feel sure They will share our thoughts in that there is no point in servicing an engine that will be replaced in couple of weeks ??

Ask Mate. I feel sure they will do this for You.....

Now about that Mobil 1 in a new engine ? Anchs ????

Wee Charlie.

[ormi]

I've been having a good think about how to best do this and have come to the conclusion of just to bite the bullet & pay for the service as I don't know when this engine is going to turn up.

The main reason for doing this is to uphold the warranty and we are restricted by this 1k mileage tolerance. The only way to prevent my wife from doing 1500 miles over the next 3 weeks (assuming the engine has arrived by then) is to let her take my car & I take the rav as I do a fraction of the miles she does. The downside to that is 1500 miles in my motor is roughly 6 tanks of fuel which will cost more than the service!!

Service is booked for tomorrow so I will see then if there are any savings to he had.

I will let you know how I get on

silly silly their isnt a 1k tolerance ive seen cars 5000 miles over a service get work done....hell ive seen cars that havent been serviced get warranty work done......... me myself i would have waited and heres the reasons

1)you will get new oil in the engine

2)your gear/transfer oil will get changed

3)you will get new coolant

so you getting it serviced now is just wasting money...sorry....and waiting a few 000 miles wont harm the warranty at all!!

[blue monster]

Ormi , I am only basing this 1k service tolerance around what I am being advised by Lindops (I will ask again in the morning when I take the car in) and at the risk of voiding my warranty for a few hundred quid I would rather just pay it for piece of mind.

If Lindops confirm in the morning that this 1k service tolerance does not exist, then it will not be getting serviced - but based upon their great reputation I am guessing they know what they are talking about.

[anchorman]

Yes, the engine service items will all be renewed with the new engine. That is why you should have a discussion with the service manager and tell him/her what is on your mind. I am quite sure they will come to a compromise. I too wouldn't bother about the mileage because the bit you might damage by excessive mileage (and it is by no means excessive) is going back to Japan on a pallet.

Charlie.

There is no doubt that a new engine will bed in to some extent and that fully synthetic oil will prolong that process. However, manufacturers often use fully synthetic from new and the engines are made to such controlled tolerances that synthetic oil will do little harm.

Blue. You can rest assured that if Toyota are going to invest approaching five figures in making sure you have no warranty issues with the new engine that they will use top notch oil when they build it up. It may be synthetic and it may be semi-synthetic but both are well on top of the job. What I can say is that they will have strict instructions for what oil is used during the break in period and your chances of them letting use super duper diamond encrusted £100 a gallon oil of your own is zero.

Stop worrying, talk to the service manager about assimilating the service and just look forward to getting it back all done for you.

[blue monster]

Anchs, thanks for your reassuring comments I'm not worried - just want this to be as hassle free as possible which I am sure it will be & if I can get my service & clutch done at reduced prices whilst the motor is getting swapped then happy days!!

[anchorman]

You have to negotiate buddy

[ormi]

Ormi , I am only basing this 1k service tolerance around what I am being advised by Lindops (I will ask again in the morning when I take the car in) and at the risk of voiding my warranty for a few hundred quid I would rather just pay it for piece of mind.

If Lindops confirm in the morning that this 1k service tolerance does not exist, then it will not be getting serviced - but based upon their great reputation I am guessing they know what they are talking about.

i also know what im talking about ive been rebuilding these engines since they went pete tong and also been fitting complete engines since they changed the procedure i have also got people out with this country engines with full and with partial service history engines under warranty when their dealer said no...the point of a service is to keep the engine and running gear in tip top condition... when changing the engine you change the fluids as well and to be honest if it has been diagnosed you need a new engine you shouldnt be driving it toyota say the car should be taken off the road and they will suply you with a hire car..

[blue monster]

Ormi, I am not disputing for a moment that you know what you are talking about - I know nothing about Toyota warranties or any service tolerances so am taking it upon face value as to what Toyota have advised me when I was at Lindops on Monday.

I have pointed our very clearly to Lindops Toyota that my wife does 500 miles per week & that we would be 1500, possibly 2000 miles over our service schedule point of 40k by the time the new engine was fitted and this is where they advised of the 1k tolerance and that I would need to get it serviced to ensure my warranty remained in tact.

I will ask to speak to the service manager in the morning as Anchorman has suggested and to your point if Toyota are honouring warranty work on cars that are 5,000 miles over their service point then there is no reason to get ours done now & I will wait.

I will let you know how I get on in the morning

[Mistermena]

I don't see a problem with using Mobil 1 ESP from day one as mentioned. My Polo TDi (As did all the Polo's) came with Castrol EDGE 5w-30 (507 00 spec) from factory. It was then upto the owner to opt for the longlife service intervals or the 10k ones. EDGE and ESP are both 507 00 specs but only the ESP meets the C2 spec. EDGE does have a slightly higher TBN number to combat wear.

[anchorman]

I don't see a problem with using Mobil 1 ESP from day one as mentioned. My Polo TDi (As did all the Polo's) came with Castrol EDGE 5w-30 (507 00 spec) from factory. It was then upto the owner to opt for the longlife service intervals or the 10k ones. EDGE and ESP are both 507 00 specs but only the ESP meets the C2 spec. EDGE does have a slightly higher TBN number to combat wear.

Ther isn't a problem with using it. Toyota will have a problem with not using their own specified oil that they can predict the performance through running in with. When a new engine is fitted, they issue a set of driving instructions along with the oil spec as part of the rework program. After that, the owner can do what they like as long as the oil meets the spec.

[blue monster]

Car is in for a service minus the parts that are going to be replaced with the new engine so I get the best of both worlds, a heavily discounted service & my book stamped up to date so I dont encounter any future warranty issues should I need to claim.

Result!

Thanks to all for your input including ormi, anchorman & charlie - it is appreciated