Is It Worth Getting The Gen 2?

[ph47mf]

Hi

I'll get straight to the point, i have 10k and i want a hybrid. with this budget, i can get a decent Gen 2. i know Gen 3 is a vast improvement over the predecessor but at the lowest price of £16k (T-spirit trim), i'll need finance which i dont want.

Are these gen 2 prius still worth buying? or will i regret not waiting(and save up)and buy the gen 3?

i basically need something frugal, spacious, cost peanuts to maintain and full of gadgets. Prius in general fits the bill perfectly. what's your experience with the Gen 2 like?

any other advice welcome

thanks

[ian rooke]

Hi I have had both the Gen 3 is a big improvement on the Gen 2 but the Gen 2 is still s very good car 55mpg+ cheap road tax and reliable so I would go for it.

[Ancient Nerd]

Quick answer - Yes.

My old Gen II (08 reg) Prius is still in the family and has currently done nearly 110,000 miles. I drove it for the first 40,000.

Warranty repairs - None

Non-warranty repairs - none

Tyres - on its second set (original Bridgestone ~ 45,000. replacement Michelin energy saver ~65,000 so far)

Brake pads - original

Warranty - You will probably still have a hybrid warranty for some time. Early Gen IIIs have the Toyota Weasel Warranty.

Service costs - low.

[timberwolf]

Is it that big an improvement?

On the Gen 3, I dislike the cockpit design - flying bridge and reintroduction of what looks like a transmission tunnel (there is no need for anything other than a flat floor but Toyota have reintroduced what looks like a transmission tunnel in the front), the removal of the MFD, the cheaper dash plastics, the 17" alloy wheels, the "design" of the lights, longer length, less storage bins. Worse Hybrid warranty - it doesn't cover as much of hybrid technology in the Gen 3 and on introduction it was only for 5 years, for later Gen3's the warranty is only extended by 3 years for the HV Battery (the component that doesn't fail very often at least on the Gen 2 it didn't - we'll have to wait and see if the simpler design (if I recall correctly Toyota removed some of protection from the HV Battery).

The only big improvement that the Gen 3 seems to have is the mpg when on the motorway, you can drive faster than in a Gen 2 for the same mpg. Technically, there is now a heat exhaust recovery system, and the engine coolant pump is also electric. Heated wing mirrors (oh, I really missed those when I bought my Gen 2 - I figured what with the winters becoming milder that I wouldn't miss them, ha, ha, two bad winters were to follow). Improved sat-nav system but it is still clunky and poorly featured when compared with a the best portable units.

The Gen 3 is probably more suited to people with conventional tastes wrt to the interior cockpit or who like plastic bling and 17" wheels. :!Removed!:

[ph47mf]

that's good to hear.

to be honest, money aside, i prefer the look of the new one and the interior of the old one. the quality of the material used seems to be better. i know these Battery units last the life of the car, but just how long will these cars last on average? upto a typical 150k like normal petrol cars?

in terms of special features, what do the gen 3 have and the gen 2 don't?

how much is it to fill up and how many miles can you get out of it? average again will do as i want to work out if buying a prius will actually save a great deal or pennies.

thanks

[timberwolf]

Oops, one correction during my rant on transmission tunnels, the Gen 2 also has what looks like a transmission tunnel, I forgot I rest the ice scrapper on it

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I predict two lots of answers - gen2 owners say go for it and gen3 owners say wait. I'm in the latter.

What I would also draw your attention to is the present high price of the gen2 compared to similar sized non hybrids. I personally recon this is because presently they are still exempt from the £10 daily London Congestion Charge zone. Come June next year they will no longer be eligible and as such their prices will bomb. The gen3 however, having 89g/km rating will still be eligible for a few more years yet which should mean it holds its value longer.

Also, every year that passes makes the gen2 more and more 'old hat'. A gen3 facelift is due next year which will accelerate this.

[ph47mf]

that's some very useful input, definitely something i don't know. what you have done is make me more confused than i need haha. i personally agree the second hand prices are still a little high. i suppose i can wait and earn some interest before getting the latest version.

[timberwolf]

The petrol tank holds 45 litres. The fuelly.com web-site should give you an idea what various owners who are prepared to enter their figures and share them with the world get in their cars.

I'm not sure if the London Congestion Charge is going to make that much difference to the price of a second-hand Gen 2. Logically, it ought to depress the prices, and create a sudden glut of them as those in and around London sell them. But how many Prius are bought that never go to London, and the dealer sold ones will always be at a premium, based on the theory that they sell the clean and reliable ones.

[Jan&tone]

My gen2 never went to London and i've no intention of taking my gen3 there either!

Which is best? A matter of taste probably, the major difference is the engine size, the gen2 was 1.5 and the gen3 is 1.8 and therefore probably more suited to motorways than the gen2 was. Having said that mine seem to spend their lives on motorways or on the Isle of Wight so I get the best of both worlds...

Which to buy? Your choice I'm afraid. Longevity? Vancouver and Toronto cabs have amassed massive mileages.

The facelift in 2012 may push the price of the gen3's down a little, but with petrol prices increasing again who knows!

[Chris Dance]

We had a Gen 2 and there is nothing wrong with that car. We changed to Gen 3 last March. My son still has a Gen 2 and uses it for business in UK and Europe it has never let him down. I think the Gen 3 is an improvement on the Gen2 but nothing major. If the Gen 2 is what you can afford go for it but ensure you get a warranty with it, and ensure only a Toyota dealer has stamped the service history. Never let any garage other Toyota service or repair a Prius.

The 12v Battery life is about 3 years. The main batteries 8 years from when the car is new. If you do get a Prius always firmly shut the rear hatch door if it is not closed firmly you will have a flat 12v Battery in a very short time. The rear hatch has an electronic switch which activates internal lighting. Lots of owners have experienced this including me. What ever you decide the Prius is a great car.

[sjrainsford]

I love my Gen 2. I really want to upgrade to a 3rd Gen as I prefer the look of it. However it has been great and always a pleasure to drive. I average 54mpg with lots of A road blasts. It costs me around 60 quid to fill it up from the flashing light and that will get me between 450 and 500 miles. I dont generally drive over economically and tend to just use it at normal road speeds and stick to 70-80 on the motorway.

The back seat space is great for two adults and the boot space is generally more than adequate.

So far all ive had to do is service it with no other costs. You dont normally even have to change the brake disks and pads for ages! Mine has 50K on the clock now and the pads far from need changing.

So is it a cheap car to own and would i recommend one? Thats a big fat YES!

[ph47mf]

My gen2 never went to London and i've no intention of taking my gen3 there either!

Which is best? A matter of taste probably, the major difference is the engine size, the gen2 was 1.5 and the gen3 is 1.8 and therefore probably more suited to motorways than the gen2 was. Having said that mine seem to spend their lives on motorways or on the Isle of Wight so I get the best of both worlds...

Which to buy? Your choice I'm afraid. Longevity? Vancouver and Toronto cabs have amassed massive mileages.

The facelift in 2012 may push the price of the gen3's down a little, but with petrol prices increasing again who knows!

although the engine size is bigger in the gen 3, am i right thinking the total bhp output is around the same? when you say massive mileage, do you know if they needed Battery replacements?

We had a Gen 2 and there is nothing wrong with that car. We changed to Gen 3 last March. My son still has a Gen 2 and uses it for business in UK and Europe it has never let him down. I think the Gen 3 is an improvement on the Gen2 but nothing major. If the Gen 2 is what you can afford go for it but ensure you get a warranty with it, and ensure only a Toyota dealer has stamped the service history. Never let any garage other Toyota service or repair a Prius.

The 12v battery life is about 3 years. The main batteries 8 years from when the car is new. If you do get a Prius always firmly shut the rear hatch door if it is not closed firmly you will have a flat 12v battery in a very short time. The rear hatch has an electronic switch which activates internal lighting. Lots of owners have experienced this including me. What ever you decide the Prius is a great car.

that's good advice, thank you.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

although the engine size is bigger in the gen 3, am i right thinking the total bhp output is around the same? when you say massive mileage, do you know if they needed battery replacements?

No you are not right - far from it

The gen2 had a 1.5 engine with 76 bhp, then add the electric motor and you end up with a total useable amount of 110bhp.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius_(XW20)

The gen 3 has a 1.8 engine with 98 bhp, then add the motor and end up with a total useable amount of 134 bhp.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius_(XW30)

Hope this helps. If you were refering to the parkers website for your information it is wrong.

HV Battery replacements are rare. The old grey import Japanese only Prius (1997-2001) are starting to fail now but they are over 10 years old and were not officially released outside of Japan - they were one step up from a test mule. The Prius HV batteries should last well over 150-200k miles. There are reports of cab companies in America and Canada running them over 500k miles before issues. Just don't worry about the HV batteries in the same way you don't stay awake at night worrying about your engine needing replacement.

(The above doesn't apply to Honda hybrids which use a cheaper, less reliable system)

[Ancient Nerd]

although the engine size is bigger in the gen 3, am i right thinking the total bhp output is around the same? when you say massive mileage, do you know if they needed battery replacements?

No. Total bhp is noticeably greater on the Gen III. Hence faster 0-60 and max speed. However, there is far less torque on the Gen III. IIRC the Gen II had 470 Newton metres, while the Gen III has not a lot over half that. On the other hand the traction control on the Gen III is far less aggressive - you don't really need to be aware of it at take-off.

Having said that, the only reason I changed to a Gen III is that one of the family needed to replace an older car. The most noticeable difference is the more relaxed engine on the motorway. But that was never a problem. Also the 16 inch wheels made for a more comfortable ride than the 17 inch ones of the T4 and T-Spirit gen III.

[ph47mf]

you're exactly right, i got the information from Parkers. it says on there the electric motor adds about 67bhp to the 76bhp engine. now i am glad i asked. 110bhp in today's standards is pedestrian. dont get me wrong, i'm not about to race with a Prius but 143bhp sounds more handy whenever i need it to get out of sticky situation.

I think i have made up my mind, i will get a 2009 version in 2012, it should hopefully come down to around 11-12k and in the meantime, i will save up! a white gen 3 in t-spirit trim it is.

thanks Ancient nerd.

[Ancient Nerd]

you're exactly right, i got the information from Parkers. it says on there the electric motor adds about 67bhp to the 76bhp engine. now i am glad i asked. 110bhp in today's standards is pedestrian. dont get me wrong, i'm not about to race with a Prius but 143bhp sounds more handy whenever i need it to get out of sticky situation.

I think i have made up my mind, i will get a 2009 version in 2012, it should hopefully come down to around 11-12k and in the meantime, i will save up! a white gen 3 in t-spirit trim it is.

thanks Ancient nerd.

You have to be careful comparing a car with CVT (or the Prius' pseudo-CVT). The reason is that the CVT allows the engine to run at its maximum power continuously, while you are accelerating. With a conventional transmission, you are running off max power for most of the time. You also lose at gearchanges.

In practice, you will get the quoted acceleration from a Prius (or any other CVT car) yourself. To do it with any manual car, you need to get your gearchanges just right, and you really don't want to do the necessary gearchanges - you won't do the gearbox any good!

FWIW, there was a road test of a Volvo-66 (originally DAF-66) about 30 years ago in Autocar, where apart from the usual acceleration times, they did mid-range (overtaking) acceleration tests (30-50, 40-60 or something like that). They included figures for similar cars as a comparison. The Volvo had a rubber band CVT and a 1200 Renault engine. But to get comparable results, the cars they compared with were 2-3 litre big beasties (The only one I can remember for sure was a Jaguar).

Before my Gen II I had a Honda Civic 2.2 diesel. Although this was around 2 sec faster for 0-60 (8.9 instead of 10.9), in practice there really wasn't such a great difference.

Don't forget that early Gen IIIs will be without warranty from the middle of next year, thanks to the less than generous attitude of Toyota. So you might have to wait another year if you are thinking of buying privately.

Whichever you get, enjoy.

[johalareewi]

i'm not about to race with a Prius but 143bhp sounds more handy

That should be 134 for a gen3

[ph47mf]

thats a good read. i have to be honest, i have never driven a CVT before or know anything about it. the general online review on it is that people prefer a conventional auto than CVT. especially the one employed in Hondas such as Jazz and Civic etc, though i dont know if that is a similar system to the one used in the Prius.

i will eventually get myself to a dealer for a test drive, but until then, what's it like? does it speed up like an electric car? not a lot of noise and no gear changes etc? i feel like a child again, i like this car the more i read about it. it makes the Honda insight and civic hybrid look like it was from the last century.

[sjrainsford]

When you put your foot to the floor the engine runs quickly up to max revs (around 4500rpm ish) and just stays there. So the engine purrs away as the car accelerates with no change in engine note. When you back off the accelerator the engine just drops away then and it can be barely heard generally.

I live in South Staffs and if youre ever over that way (just south of cannock) then youd be more than welcome to pop round and get taken a trip out in our Gen 2 plus and good show round of all the technical stuff.

In reality, you ought to just organise a drive in one. And if i were you i'd have a go in a Gen 2 as well, you might just be as surprised as I was with mine.

And on the motorway bit, mine has taken me back and fourth to Newcastle many times for work and it will quite happily and comfily sit at 80-90 mph on the motorway with the engine only ever audible on inclines when its working a little harder.

[jdrrco]

Just to add my twopenn'orth, I was faced with the same decision a couple of months ago.

My decision was to source a well-looked-after '56 plate Gen II T-Spirit with leather and rear camera (in other words as good a spec as any Prius built after then), which I did for £6,500. (Important to avoid the pre-'56 ones for poor seats etc)

I agree that £10k feels like a lot for a Gen II, but I wasn't prepared to spend the £16k required for a Gen III.

I don't regret my decision. The Gen II is averaging over 55mpg, £10 car tax etc etc. It's perfectly happy at 70mph (74mph indicated) and coped beautifully with a 6-day 1,500 mile trip around France (including bringing back 230 bottles of wine) in the heat of September without a hint of a complaint.

Meanwhile, I'm hanging on to the rest of my cash and when Gen IIIs are nearer £12k, then I might well consider an upgrade. But for me, for now the differences didn't justify an extra £10k layout which would cover a lot of fuel, trips to France and wine!!

[ol'git]

I've been reading through this post with interest (as I do all posts lol), and wondered what the cheapest Gen III was in a 40 mile radius to me (I live in Essex), so I've just been looking on auto-traders interweb, and I found a 59 plate Gen III VVTi T4 with 60k on the clock for £13,495 and a T-Spirit with 59,354 miles for £14,950.

It looks as though the price's of the Gen III's are dropping (albeit slowly), but they are relatively high miler's (warranty run outs?), for apporx 2yr old cars.

[dr_dee]

Another tuppence worth . . .

I bought a Gen2 new in 2006 and have done 70k totally problem free miles in it. Even though I work it hard, I have never owned such a reliable car in 40 years of driving and was totally convinced I'd buy a Gen3 when it appeared. That was right up until I sat inside one! I have never seen (or felt) such a cheap plasticky dashboard in any car, let alone one at £24k! Now I know the Gen3 looks much sharper on the outside, but the bit of the car that I look at the most is the dash and I am really disappointed with the 'plant-origin' plastics that have been used by Toyota. I suppose I'm not enough of a 'tree-hugger' to appreciate the 'green-ness' of these new materials but I afraid I'm sticking with my Gen2 until it dies!

[ph47mf]

mm very contrasting comments about the two cars. let's just say they are both good cars and we call it a day eh haha.

does anyone know anything about the facelift version? what improvements will they make? perhaps if it's so good, i should get a gen 2 and wait 3 years for the prices of that to come down, that can be one of the plans. oh i am confused haha.

if i only have the cash to buy a car without warranty, id choose a toyota or a honda. the end of the normal 3 year manufacturer's warranty is not a worry to me as i know how reliable these cars can be. if i buy a 3-4 year old gen 2/3, they are still covered for the electric side of things so i am not worried at all. almost all cars have some sort of bad user experience, i havent see any for the prius, not even on this forum when it's a place for people to raise concern. i am impressed!

[johalareewi]

The 2012 facelift changes were posted on this forum a few weeks ago.

Edit: Here it is...

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=128482