I Would Never Trust Toyota Again

[coopy]

I have a Toyota Avensis 1.8 VVTI 2004 hatchback, bought it from 1 year old at a Toyota main dealer and it has been serviced there ever since. The car has generally performed really well over it's 7yr life so far, that is until just before the service in 2010 and the oil light came on. There was no oil showing on the dip stick, which was strange and no leaks the car had 43K miles on the clock. I mentioned this to the dealer and they looked into it with nothing to find during the service, over the coming year I was regually replacing oil with still no visible signs of leaks and so I did some internet investigationI found this was quite a common problem on this engine model. The information pointed to a Toyota design problem of the piston rings, again I mentioned this at the service only for them to initially deny this problem and then confirm when I pushed for a more accurate answer. They said there was nothing they could do as I did not have extended warranty and to solve the problem a short block replacement would need to be done. I wrote to Toyota expressing my concerns that I have a car with now only 50K miles and is drinking oil like no tomorrow. I got a reply from Toyota telling me because of the problem Toyota had taken the step of extending the warranty on the car to 7yrs and because the 7yrs had past this was the end of the matter. Well firstly I was not made aware of the extended warranty, more importantly the reason why the warranty had been extended. This would have at least give me an option to sell or trade in the car, now I am left with a car that has barely over 50K miles which is well below the average for a 7yr old car and an oil problem that will only get worse. Toyota prides itself on reliability but it makes you realise that if a company can hide sweep problems like this under the carpet and high light only the good points, it is really not much of a claim. The scary thing about this is the early 1.8 VVTI engine was not just used in the avensis it was used across the range, and I am sure there will be others affected by this oil problem.

[daavisz]

This 1.8 and 1.6 VVTI oil consumption problem is wide-known. You should did more investigation about vvti engines before you bought the Avensis.

My advice to you to top it up with oil and sell it.

[cmia]

I have a Toyota Avensis 1.8 VVTI 2004 hatchback, bought it from 1 year old at a Toyota main dealer and it has been serviced there ever since. The car has generally performed really well over it's 7yr life so far, that is until just before the service in 2010 and the oil light came on. There was no oil showing on the dip stick, which was strange and no leaks the car had 43K miles on the clock. I mentioned this to the dealer and they looked into it with nothing to find during the service, over the coming year I was regually replacing oil with still no visible signs of leaks and so I did some internet investigationI found this was quite a common problem on this engine model. The information pointed to a Toyota design problem of the piston rings, again I mentioned this at the service only for them to initially deny this problem and then confirm when I pushed for a more accurate answer. They said there was nothing they could do as I did not have extended warranty and to solve the problem a short block replacement would need to be done. I wrote to Toyota expressing my concerns that I have a car with now only 50K miles and is drinking oil like no tomorrow. I got a reply from Toyota telling me because of the problem Toyota had taken the step of extending the warranty on the car to 7yrs and because the 7yrs had past this was the end of the matter. Well firstly I was not made aware of the extended warranty, more importantly the reason why the warranty had been extended. This would have at least give me an option to sell or trade in the car, now I am left with a car that has barely over 50K miles which is well below the average for a 7yr old car and an oil problem that will only get worse. Toyota prides itself on reliability but it makes you realise that if a company can hide sweep problems like this under the carpet and high light only the good points, it is really not much of a claim. The scary thing about this is the early 1.8 VVTI engine was not just used in the avensis it was used across the range, and I am sure there will be others affected by this oil problem.

dont give up...

push the local dealership to put a new shortblock in your car...

Ask them to give you a detailed history report with work done to your car..

if not call toyota customer services.

[Cyker]

Still, it should be something the dealers keep an eye on if they know about it!

The Avensis seems to have a particularly bad reputation at the moment for engine robustness judging from what I've read here!

[cmia]

Still, it should be something the dealers keep an eye on if they know about it!

The Avensis seems to have a particularly bad reputation at the moment for engine robustness judging from what I've read here!

Two problems

1 - The avensis doesnt just have problems, its sold more so you hear more about it

2 - Also you never hear about all the good cars, just the bad ones.

[dervdave]

And the OPs car is 7 yrs old, just how long can you realistically expect a warranty to last for ?

If the OPs car has a problem surely it should`ve been raised before now.

[ormi]

its up to the customer to keep the garage up to date on oil used.......how does the garage know how much the customer is putting it if the garage isnt informed....

ie

hello its mr jones you just serviced my car and ive just had to top it up with a lrt and i have only done 400 miles and so on...

[cmia]

The issue was probably the main dealership not accepting that the cars

1 had the issue

2 had warranty, and now becuase his car is outside warranty they wont do anything about it

[Cyker]

its up to the customer to keep the garage up to date on oil used.......how does the garage know how much the customer is putting it if the garage isnt informed....

ie

hello its mr jones you just serviced my car and ive just had to top it up with a lrt and i have only done 400 miles and so on...

If you read his post, he says he did raise a concern about the oil but they said they couldn't see anything wrong.

[Lizzi]

Having had my 2005 2.0 T3-X for 6 months now, and so been keeping an eye on this forum for quite a while, I have to say, I am always quite surprised at what people expect of Toyota on the extended warrenty front. Until reading up on it here, I have to say, I would never of expected to fight to get something like a engine rebuild done under warrently on a 7 year old car, even if it did have known problems. I don't think that Toyota's are necessarily less prone to problems than other makes of car, just that they seem more likey to fix them under little known extended warrenties if you complain enough.

I had a Rover 216 in the early 1990's, bought it as a 1 year old car, with just 5k miles on it. About 3 years later, at around 40k miles, the head gaskets blew - cost me around £1,000 to get it fixed. I made a fuss at the time - said I didn't think it was right that that should happen to an engine serviced at regular intervals, with no noticable oil or collant loss etc. They just said I was unlucky, and it was one of those things. So I just had to bit the bullet as it were.

So my advice would be to push Toyota, and see what you can get, but if, at then end of the day they refuse, then you'll be like all the other 'non Toyota' owners who it might happen too, and have to fork out to get it repaired.

[dervdave]

Having had my 2005 2.0 T3-X for 6 months now, and so been keeping an eye on this forum for quite a while, I have to say, I am always quite surprised at what people expect of Toyota on the extended warrenty front. Until reading up on it here, I have to say, I would never of expected to fight to get something like a engine rebuild done under warrently on a 7 year old car, even if it did have known problems. I don't think that Toyota's are necessarily less prone to problems than other makes of car, just that they seem more likey to fix them under little known extended warrenties if you complain enough.

I had a Rover 216 in the early 1990's, bought it as a 1 year old car, with just 5k miles on it. About 3 years later, at around 40k miles, the head gaskets blew - cost me around £1,000 to get it fixed. I made a fuss at the time - said I didn't think it was right that that should happen to an engine serviced at regular intervals, with no noticable oil or collant loss etc. They just said I was unlucky, and it was one of those things. So I just had to bit the bullet as it were.

So my advice would be to push Toyota, and see what you can get, but if, at then end of the day they refuse, then you'll be like all the other 'non Toyota' owners who it might happen too, and have to fork out to get it repaired.

Spot on Lizzie !

[coopy]

You seem to be missing the point I tried to make here, Firstly the oil problem was created by a Toyota design error apparently known by Toyota for some years now. Secondly they never informed me of the extended 7yr or 112K miles warranty which ever came first, nor did they inform me of the design error. The oil problem according to some net reports appears as early as 48K miles, my car started at 6yr old on 43K miles when I mentioned it at the service and they said they could not find anything. It was only a year later when it was due for another annual service and some investigation that I got an answer. Of course the 7yr warranty had expired, call it if you will bad luck for keeping a very low mileage car and the problem not surfacing until 6yrs or 43K miles of the cars life. But I feel Toyota have known about this problem for years and should inform the owners, so I put the blame firmly at there feet. In an ideal world I could have used the car a lot more and the oil problem would have surfaced earlier and I could have got it fixed under warranty. Or even better Toyota could have admitted the problem earlier and rectified it.

[cmia]

You seem to be missing the point I tried to make here, Firstly the oil problem was created by a Toyota design error apparently known by Toyota for some years now. Secondly they never informed me of the extended 7yr or 112K miles warranty which ever came first, nor did they inform me of the design error. The oil problem according to some net reports appears as early as 48K miles, my car started at 6yr old on 43K miles when I mentioned it at the service and they said they could not find anything. It was only a year later when it was due for another annual service and some investigation that I got an answer. Of course the 7yr warranty had expired, call it if you will bad luck for keeping a very low mileage car and the problem not surfacing until 6yrs or 43K miles of the cars life. But I feel Toyota have known about this problem for years and should inform the owners, so I put the blame firmly at there feet. In an ideal world I could have used the car a lot more and the oil problem would have surfaced earlier and I could have got it fixed under warranty. Or even better Toyota could have admitted the problem earlier and rectified it.

If you moan alot at the dealers, and you can proove in wiriting that you mentioned oil consumption problems then they should fix it.

[coopy]

Thanks cmia, I have exhausted all avenues now. I contacted Toyota customer services on several occassions and they are standing firm. They did contact the dealer to enquire about the oil investigation request by my wife and then by me. But of course as expected they denied any knowledge of us asking for them to look into the problem. No surprises there really!!

[dervdave]

This is part of a post(7/1/11) from the `Boss` of the Hilux forum JasXPear in which he was discussing the 3.0d injector problems.

He frequents this forum too and sure he won`t mind me posting this.

Maybe send him a PM and see what he says?

`Thats a similar story to the 1.8VVTi in the cars. Around 50k they start burning loads of oil but Toyota will repair it (short engine replacement) even if its out of the usual warranty if it has a full Toyota service history or was bought 2nd hand from them.

I asked my local dealer about it and he denied all knowledge of the fault or the warrranty extension but when my Avensis had trouble they sorted it all. Sorted the in laws one out too that was bought from a Ford dealership`

[ormi]

its up to the customer to keep the garage up to date on oil used.......how does the garage know how much the customer is putting it if the garage isnt informed....

ie

hello its mr jones you just serviced my car and ive just had to top it up with a lrt and i have only done 400 miles and so on...

If you read his post, he says he did raise a concern about the oil but they said they couldn't see anything wrong.

right so he said at the service........ a tec cant see a fault if its burning oil can he? you cant see oil evaporate...and if it had just been topped up before the service then it would look like theirs nothing wrong????????....so you check the oil and when its on low you go back and say eg ive done 600 miles and i have used 1.3 lrts oh sir thats a lot we'll get you in for a repair..job done

[ormi]

also the warranty wasnt hidden you just need to google it or read in to the type of engine.......we got praise from customers because they didnt even know they had a problem till we phoned them and told them the car would be ready a day or two late due to it getting a short block....my dealership done loads of vvti engines..you got a good time for rebuilding ie you made bonus

[Red diesel]

And the OPs car is 7 yrs old, just how long can you realistically expect a warranty to last for ?

If the OPs car has a problem surely it should`ve been raised before now.

He did - back in 2010 when he discovered the problem, but the dealer apparently said they could find nothing wrong when he bought it up

at the next service shortly after.

Regarding how long a warranty should last - yes 7 years is a long time (although a certain Korean manufacturer seems happy and content to nonetheless offer a warranty at that age). But this issue is a design problem or a common fault on the car. So the manufacturer should be providing assistance in fixing the problem.

Red diesel

[dervdave]

Regarding how long a warranty should last - yes 7 years is a long time (although a certain Korean manufacturer seems happy and content to nonetheless offer a warranty at that age). But this issue is a design problem or a common fault on the car. So the manufacturer should be providing assistance in fixing the problem.

No I think 4yrs after the official 3yr warranty expired is a bit much but it goes without saying I do wish the OP good luck with his claim.

[Konrad C]

Hi Coopy,

I read your first post and re-read it. here is my little bit.

Your are right and the dealer who seem ignorant are totally wrong.

You reported the problem well inside the warranty period - 6 years. Even though a year went before the dealer admitted anything, the dealer should then help you claim on the warranty since it was their error!

I have read other cases on the forum who won part or all of the warranty to repair the engine.

Other posters said you should Google issue to find out more, but you had the car before the oil burning issue was widely known. The issue became known to the motoring press in recent years.

Remember, the oil burning issues with these engines start to show from 30,000 to 50,000 miles on average.

Keep fighting and use the point that you reported the issue within the warranty period but the dealer did not act in the correct manner to fox the problem.

Goodkuck

Konrad

[Old Red Celica]

Do you have it on an invoice proving you mentioned the Oil consumption problem?

Unfortunately I've got the feeling your making a noise too late. Good Luck though.

The Oil Consumption issues have been well known for at least 4 years on the Toyota Forums.

[frankie406]

hi so is warranty ext on all their cars and from what year?no 1 at toyota told me either?mines is a 2006 avensis d4d will it still be under warranty?

[Mistermena]

hi so is warranty ext on all their cars and from what year?no 1 at toyota told me either?mines is a 2006 avensis d4d will it still be under warranty?

If your car is upto 7 years old or has upto 112k on the clock then you should be covered under the extended warranty. If you have an issue with the car then you should take it to the main dealer as soon as you notice anything and keep a copy of the job sheet. Remember that the extended (Good will) warranty covers the headgasket issues that mostly affect the 2.0/2.2 diesels and the Petrol engined afaik...

[peterbalcombe]

As the owner of a new style 2.2l Diesel T4 estate I am obviously interested in problems as described in this forum. I am also delighted that Toyota do appear to take more care than others to try to protect their customers well beyond the customary 3 year warranty period. By contrast my previous car (a 2006 2.0 litre mondeo diesel LX hatch) required a new clutch and dual mass flywheel whilst within the three year warranty period with about 30k on the clock and Ford didn't want to know. They were much too happy to put the failure down to my driving despite the fact that I had never had similar problems on previous cars, and left me £1500 out of pocket. I returned to Toyata vowing never to touch a Ford again (and determined to tell the world and his wife about my disgruntlement)! If my present Avensis performs anything like as well in reliability terms as the 1999 model I had before the mondeo which in the 5 years i had it did about 50000 miles and other than routine servicing, tyres etc only cost me £12 for an ignition switch that I replaced myself I will be a happy man! If not from previously following a Mondeo forum it appears that Avensis reliability is at worst no poorer than Ford and probably is much better and that I have a much better chance of persuading Toyota than Ford to come to my aid.

[Roker]

Toyota is getting out of the problem. If it is a design fault it should be fixed no questions, Also It should be measure on mileage not age.