New Disks And Brake Pads After 14K Miles

[DrCez]

My Gen 3 has just had its second annual service and I was advised that the rear brake disks have corroded to the point where my Toyota dealer recommends they are replaced along with the pads. This was disappointing as the car has done 14.5 K miles and anecdotally it seems that the Prius brakes can last a long time thanks to the regenerative braking taking a lot of the strain that conventional brakes might otherwise have to cope with.

The brakes haven't been done yet (I need to find time to get the car back to the dealer, and to come to terms with having to part with a few hundred pounds for the bill!) but in the meantime I wondered if there is anything I can do to prolong the life of the next set?

Some background: the majority of my driving is in rush-hour city traffic on roads with 30 or 40 mph limits. I try to drive with the flow of other traffic but do try to go easy on the brakes to try to maximise the use of regen braking.

In Aberdeen we did have a lot of snow early in 2010 and again at the end of the year - cold enough for packed snow to remain on back roads for several weeks, and I recall one journey in particular over a few hundred miles where it was so cold the "winter formula" screenwash kept freezing and even trunk roads were covered in packed snow. I wonder whether these conditions are solely responsible for the corrosion or whether there is something else I can try.

Visually I can see that the rear disk surfaces are more grooved than the front disks (but I'm not a mechanic by any stretch of the imagination!). There was no comment from the dealer after the first annual service (which took place after the car had been through one of the hard winters mentioned above).

Any thoughts/comments/experiences from the rest of you would be much appreciated!

[Parts-King]

Wow they would have to be severely corroded to need changing now??? They are a lump of cast iron and will always rust, you could paint the non contact surfaces but the nature of cast iron is it corrodes

PM me your vehicle reg number and I will price a set up for you, will be cheaper than your dealer

Kingo

[Jamesbelfast]

Go for a set of after-market discs - you'll find they are much better quality and possibly cheaper.

It is well accepted in the motor trade and from many members of this forum that sadly Mr T's just aren't up to the job.

That short distance over two years isn't just acceptable in my opinion.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I have to be careful what I say about your dealers, but some on the US forums have had issues with brakes corroding if extensive use of regen is made. I understand the European discs are softer than the American discs to give the brakes more 'bite' but the downside is they don't last as long. But at 14k miles? Come on!

Personally I would be somewhat concerned that your dealers see fit to replace discs and pads at this mileage on a Prius and would report this matter to Toyota UK HQ as a matter of urgency. That way, if other Toyota users are having similar issues with this problem and/or dealer, then someone might put two and two together.

I really can't see how, even with minimal use that your discs would be so badly corroded as to need replacement in two years. If nothing else Toyota should put something towards this - even if you just paid cost on parts and they paid the dealers.

If it were me I'd be putting up camp in the dealers showroom until they came up with some cheaper solution.

[Chris Dance]

I also think the rear brake disks should not need changing yet. If they need replacing then there is something wrong and it should be rectified FOC by Toyota. 14,500 miles is not a lot of miles. I think GC has given you good advice. Contact Toyota UK. I hope Toyota help you.

[korat102]

My Prius had its disks skimmed due to lack of use (!)

There was never any question of replacement though having them skimmed wasn't cheap. After that experience, I try to brake harder than usual at least once on each journey (after a quick check behind of course - these things have pretty effective brakes) in the hope of removing any nasty stuff before it can get itself established.

[trapdoor]

Had a similar experience in our Gen II - all discs/pads replaced at about 20k miles, which I felt was much too low, but the same excuse that the discs were badly corroded and scored - didn't look too bad to me though, but I couldn't get to the back of the discs to check.

As the car was a lease, and they were picking up the tab, I didn't worry too much, but had a nagging feeling the dealership were taking the P a bit as they knew it was a lease car. Strangly, it didn't require another set at 40k and it went back at about 55k with the last MOT report showing little wear to discs/pads. So are the 'factory fit' discs different to the replacements in the parts department?

The only downside with having had the lot changed was that the brakes squealed for months after the new set were fitted, and they just couldn't sort that out, which was really annoying.

[ColinEL]

Had a similar experience in our Gen II - all discs/pads replaced at about 20k miles, which I felt was much too low, but the same excuse that the discs were badly corroded and scored - didn't look too bad to me though, but I couldn't get to the back of the discs to check.

As the car was a lease, and they were picking up the tab, I didn't worry too much, but had a nagging feeling the dealership were taking the P a bit as they knew it was a lease car. Strangly, it didn't require another set at 40k and it went back at about 55k with the last MOT report showing little wear to discs/pads. So are the 'factory fit' discs different to the replacements in the parts department?

The only downside with having had the lot changed was that the brakes squealed for months after the new set were fitted, and they just couldn't sort that out, which was really annoying.

Hi Guys

I have a simular problem, the dealer had the roof of my Gen 2 painted after I complained about it, when I went to pick the car up I asked the guy when it was due for a service, he came back and said now, as we did not service the car when you bought it, so I booked it in and paid for the service, I asked them to check out a squeal from the front off side wheel, when I went to pick it up, I am told told the front discs and pads want changing and by the way the brake fluid is in a bad state, I have had the car since the first of Feb this year and driven 3000 miles as I have said on here before, my feelings are they bought the car in, then put it on the forecourt without checking it over,I am a bit pig sick over it.

Is this the normal way Toyota do business?

ColinEL

[DrCez]

Thanks all for the replies and suggestions. I plan to contact Toyota GB and set up a meeting with my dealer before getting the disks sorted out.

With any other car I would also take the vehicle to another garage for a second opinion but I think I'll stick with Toyota where the Prius is concerned; the next nearest Toyota dealer is 1 1/2 hours away & not really practical to visit for this kind of thing.

I'll let you know how I get on...

[CO2SLAVE]

Hi Guys,

I would be very disappointed if I got less than 60K from the discs on my Auris HSD ( which has done 16K already) but this does highlight a problem that many new HSD owners need to be aware of. That is because the Auris/Prius HSD is set up for maximum efficiency using the brake regen system the disc brakes do not get enough work to keep them clean, dry and therefore not so susceptible to rusting and also working at maximum efficiency for when you really need to stop quickly.

This is particularly true if you try to drive as efficiently as possible using the regen system because the disc brakes do not do anything at all until 7mph and below. So basically the discs are cold and wet and just rust like mad . The dealers hide behind the "wear and tear items clause" so the customer has to pay. But to be fair to the dealer there are things that we can all do to avoid premature brake disc failure;

Always dry the discs before stopping the car for any decent period - the procedure (after checking it is safe to do so) is to put the car into neutral at 50mph (not more , not sure why but it's fast enough anyway) and then brake fairly firmly - it works better if you do this on a hill because the energy put into the brakes is that much higher. You will notice when you do this that without the regen working the pedal requires a bit more pressure

You may need to do this 3 or 4 times but when you park the car up it is very important that the disc brakes are warm enough so that the moisture is evaporated off . If you don't do this the discs continue to corrode overnight ( or longer ) and then you get that horrible scraping noise the first few times you brake and if you do this too often the rusty debris trapped between the pads and disc generate deep score marks in the disc which as soon as the dealer sees he will say "you need new discs mate!"

This is also true when driving in wet weather because if your discs are cold and wet you can be sure that your stopping distance will be alot longer , so you can do the above every so often. Alternatively the other way is to brake from higher speeds and harder then the regen system limit and then that utilizes the disc brakes .

This will dry the discs and prolong the disc life.

Unfortunately either option wastes some fuel but it will be alot cheaper than buying brake discs every year :)

[Madasafish]

It's a a fact of life that cars used a little wear out rear disks far more than cars used a lot.

Why?

Simple. Cars used a little rarely have hard braking - and that is what is needed to get the REAR disks working hard to derust them and dry them out.

The OP does 14k in two years. I suspect much of the time , his car is parked with wet disks = more rust. Many of his journeys are at 30 -40mph as he says.

So he does not drive much or fast..

Solution : drive fast every 3 to 4 weeks and brake hard. Garage car at night straight from a drive, not left to get wet.

Of course if the car is not garaged and has little use, rust on unpainted surfaces is inevitable.

(This is an old story with low mileages and low speeds)

[kithmo]

I suspect most rusty disc problems are caused by washing the car then leaving it standing. I only do 6k miles a year, mainly 2-3 mile commute to work and have never had premature rusting of the discs on any car I've owned. I always take the car for a short drive after washing it.

[acetip]

Had a similar experience in our Gen II - all discs/pads replaced at about 20k miles, which I felt was much too low, but the same excuse that the discs were badly corroded and scored - didn't look too bad to me though, but I couldn't get to the back of the discs to check.

As the car was a lease, and they were picking up the tab, I didn't worry too much, but had a nagging feeling the dealership were taking the P a bit as they knew it was a lease car. Strangly, it didn't require another set at 40k and it went back at about 55k with the last MOT report showing little wear to discs/pads. So are the 'factory fit' discs different to the replacements in the parts department?

The only downside with having had the lot changed was that the brakes squealed for months after the new set were fitted, and they just couldn't sort that out, which was really annoying.

Hi Guys

I have a simular problem, the dealer had the roof of my Gen 2 painted after I complained about it, when I went to pick the car up I asked the guy when it was due for a service, he came back and said now, as we did not service the car when you bought it, so I booked it in and paid for the service, I asked them to check out a squeal from the front off side wheel, when I went to pick it up, I am told told the front discs and pads want changing and by the way the brake fluid is in a bad state, I have had the car since the first of Feb this year and driven 3000 miles as I have said on here before, my feelings are they bought the car in, then put it on the forecourt without checking it over,I am a bit pig sick over it.

Is this the normal way Toyota do business?

ColinEL

Its the way car salesmen do business,yes even toyota ones.do anthing to boost their profit.promises of giving the car a service in with the deal.dont you beleave it whatever it says in the service book.doubt car will have been near workshop.more money saved for them.

[Red Yaris 54]

Had a similar experience in our Gen II - all discs/pads replaced at about 20k miles, which I felt was much too low, but the same excuse that the discs were badly corroded and scored - didn't look too bad to me though, but I couldn't get to the back of the discs to check.

As the car was a lease, and they were picking up the tab, I didn't worry too much, but had a nagging feeling the dealership were taking the P a bit as they knew it was a lease car. Strangly, it didn't require another set at 40k and it went back at about 55k with the last MOT report showing little wear to discs/pads. So are the 'factory fit' discs different to the replacements in the parts department?

The only downside with having had the lot changed was that the brakes squealed for months after the new set were fitted, and they just couldn't sort that out, which was really annoying.

Hi Guys

I have a simular problem, the dealer had the roof of my Gen 2 painted after I complained about it, when I went to pick the car up I asked the guy when it was due for a service, he came back and said now, as we did not service the car when you bought it, so I booked it in and paid for the service, I asked them to check out a squeal from the front off side wheel, when I went to pick it up, I am told told the front discs and pads want changing and by the way the brake fluid is in a bad state, I have had the car since the first of Feb this year and driven 3000 miles as I have said on here before, my feelings are they bought the car in, then put it on the forecourt without checking it over,I am a bit pig sick over it.

Is this the normal way Toyota do business?

ColinEL

Its the way car salesmen do business,yes even toyota ones.do anthing to boost their profit.promises of giving the car a service in with the deal.dont you beleave it whatever it says in the service book.doubt car will have been near workshop.more money saved for them.

That is a rather broad sweeping "stereotypical" statement to make!

Not all car salesmen share those ethics wether they are Toyota or otherwise

In my many years of purchasing vehicles I have certainly encountered more straight and honest dealers and salesmen than those that you imply.

I hope that you are able to support your opinion with some fact...........

[blue verso 56]

I have to agree with Red Yaris which must be a first for me the Toyota dealers sales and service departments have all been honest and straight forward to deal with ! Now Toyota customer relations well that is another story

[kevin h]

Silly question,

But with the mileages quoted, surely any work on the brakes is being done under warranty?

My Gen 2 developed a problem at 2 yrs and 360 days old (32k miles)and needed the brakes skimmed.

The job was done under warranty.

[Parts-King]

Silly question,

But with the mileages quoted, surely any work on the brakes is being done under warranty?

My Gen 2 developed a problem at 2 yrs and 360 days old (32k miles)and needed the brakes skimmed.

The job was done under warranty.

Not any more, any corrosion, skimming etc is classed as wear and tear, it would be done if the car was 18 months/ 20K whichever comes sooner, but after that it is not covered under warranty

Kingo

[cootuk]

I guess like modern diesels need a good blast weekly to clean out the DPlF, hybrids will need a good brake weekly to clean off the discs.

An expensive quirk of ownership if neglected, but could Toyota officially suggest selecting neutral at speed then braking? I doubt it.

How else can you get this into the wider Prius owne4 mindset, as in people who dont visit the forum.L

[kithmo]

At 14K miles I wouldn't class it as wear and tear, I'd be thinking about reporting the problem to VOSA. Toyota should use better quality materials, suitable for the job. In the UK the first MOT test is at 3 years old, which would be 30k miles on average so the discs should last at least that IMO, regardless of the way the car is driven.

[Jamesbelfast]

Do car manufacturers not consider that not all their buyers will necessarily be high milage or long distance drivers. Mnay people need a car for short runs and not use their car every day of the week.

In my opinion having to renew the discs at 14,000 miles over that time warrants either poor design or materials or a deliberate attempt at a rip-off.

Let's be honest older Toyotas didn't suffer this problem so something has changed and it definitely isn't to the cutomers advantage. Rtaher the opoosite in my view.

[johalareewi]

Not any more, any corrosion, skimming etc is classed as wear and tear, it would be done if the car was 18 months/ 20K whichever comes sooner, but after that it is not covered under warranty

Kingo

So if you use your brakes and wear them out, that is wear and tear (fair enough).

But if you don't use your brakes and they corrode in less than 18 months that is also wear and tear?

Head Mr T wins, tails you lose. :(

[Jamesbelfast]

So it's a case of bend over and wait to be well and truly sh*fted.

Can Toyota not realise that treating loyal valued customers this way is only going to reduce sales.

In my experience the majority of Toyota buyers are repeat customers - in other words don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Mr T has forgoten the basic rule of selling and providing a service. The dealer may have what the customer wants but the customer has what the dealer needs.

[Parts-King]

So if you use your brakes and wear them out, that is wear and tear (fair enough).

But if you don't use your brakes and they corrode in less than 18 months that is also wear and tear?

Head Mr T wins, tails you lose. :(

Don't shoot the messenger, only telling you how it is, it is certainly not common on a Prius for this to happen, I would imagine it a particular set of circumstances to the OP. We have personally sold ZERO rear discs on Prius in 12 months, so it is NOT something that happens often

Kingo

[timberwolf]

The design of alloy wheels allows easy access to the rain. I know when it has rained hard and not straight down, I can see the rust has formed in spots I guess where the rain droplets have hit but not run down? Maybe Toyota should think about different wheels with wheel covers for customers who use their car less and have to park outside exposed to the wind and rain?

[DrCez]

Not any more, any corrosion, skimming etc is classed as wear and tear, it would be done if the car was 18 months/ 20K whichever comes sooner, but after that it is not covered under warranty

Kingo

So if you use your brakes and wear them out, that is wear and tear (fair enough).

But if you don't use your brakes and they corrode in less than 18 months that is also wear and tear?

Head Mr T wins, tails you lose. :(

You've hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned. I'm visiting my Toyota service centre on Monday and will be making that point: it seems likely that the discs have corroded due to lack of use, exacerbated by following advice in the user's manual to maximise fuel economy (brake gently to maximise regenerative braking). Right now it feels like I've cost myself several £100's in repairs while saving, say, £10 in petrol.

For the record, I've double-checked and the car had done just over 15K rather than the 14K I quoted in the thread title (but I wonder if most of the corrosion had already occured by the end of March?). The safety report comment says "rear brake discs very corroded, pads 70% worn". This sounds contradictory but I'm assuming (since the typically more heavily used front brakes are presumably okay) the pad wear was caused by the corrosion.

Thanks again for all the discussion: at least I feel like I'm learing some useful tips from this thread. For example on my commute I get a chance to brake in neutral from about 50 mph when I'm about 5 minutes from home; when I tried this yesterday the rear discs still had some heat in them when I got home, so that will help to dry them out from time to time.

No doubt Kingo is right in that my driving patterns and location are tough on the discs, although I wouldn't have thought I'm that unusual In my case I doubt the corrosion was due to leaving the discs wet after washing given how infrequently that is done ;) (and when it was washed it has been with a water-free system). However, the car is kept outside at home (although in a covered car park at work) and I can well imagine the discs not drying out often up here in the winter, with the added problem of road salt eating away at unpainted metal surfaces, topped off with a couple of months of snow which really does make a big difference - I've seen what that can do to cheap bicycle parts! (I wonder how folk in Norway manage?). And the final nail in the coffin?: I take the plastic wheel covers off in the summer, although I do replace them in the winter (it's dark so I don't really see them :)).

At the end of the day I don't see the point in Toyota-bashing: I just want to make sure I'm being treated fairly, to learn from the situation, and hopefully feed something back to Toyota so that they can help others avoid this problem in the future.