New Rav Owner And Key Question

[JamesA]

Hi all, not visited the forum for awhile. Was around for a bit when i first got my Celica, but after 6 years of faithful service ive just traded it in against a RAV4! Picked it up this morning and i love it! Its a 2002 3 door, petrol, auto, with alloys and leather trim in dark metallic green. Cant wait to have a proper play with it after work :)

One thing I've noticed is that I don't have any remote key fobs, only 1 grey toyota key which i think is the spare/backup key. The other is marked as an Orion EH2, has a Battery in it but no buttons. From what google tells me this is some sort of 3rd party programmed key. Both keys will unlock the car and start it, but neither will operate the central locking when turned in either door. Central locking itself seems ok as it works using the switch inside. Is this due to them not being master keys or is there something wrong elsewhere?

I've seen a few posts about getting replacement remote but they all imply i need the master key or have to have the whole system replaced! Dont fancy that so i guess i could fit a 3rd party system from eBay for £25. Anyone have any good/bad experiences or comments on this?

Cheers guys!

[CharlieFarlie]

James. Be sure and don't run down to the last key.. If it is as You say the back up and You loose it fixing will be very expensive !!

You can get keys from eBay but these will need programming before they will work..

Some good Auto locksmiths can programme the keys or of course the Dealer..

Surely the supplying garage should supply the car with at least two working keys ???

Wee Charlie.

[Manxrav]

Nice motor James, as Charlie says get back to the seller and see if they are third party keys. Did you buy the Rav from a maindealer or an independent?

Regards Clare

[Parts-King]

From a dealer point of view, a grey sub key is useless!

Your dealer cannot copy a grey sub key, you need a black master key to copy from

There are specialist key suppliers that use software to "cheat" the cloning of a key, if you want to save yourself a few pounds, this is probably the route to go. buy a key with buttons from an auction website and have it cut / programmed by a key specialist

if the car was bought second hand, there is no requirement to sell you the car with 2 x keys

Kingo

[pal1]

Hi Partsking

I'm in a similar situation. I have only one black key with the transponder in and the Gray flat key. The black key will unlock the car remotely, but I need to lock it with the key in the door. Strangely the Gray key (no transponder) will start the car as well. I suspect my immobilizer has been (turned off !!)

Do I need to buy two new keys with transponders in and get them programmed to the car ?

Mike

[JamesA]

Thanks for the input guys. It was from an independent dealer, I'll give them a ring and ask about the keys, but I suspect these are just what they were given (or maybe I'm too charitable!).

I've attached a pic of the 2 keys I have if they help at all, one does seem to be from a 3rd party clone system as Parts-King mentioned as its marked at Orion EH2 and google says that's some sort of clone system. http://www.intolocks.co.uk/transponder-machines/orion-era-3-plus-t2-keyboard-with-keys

Both keys will start the car, does this imply my immobiliser is disabled? Would the sub key normally start the car as I presume it doesn't have a transponder chip as there is no Battery access.

Any comment on the fact the central locking locks/unlocks all the doors from the inside switch, but not if I turn the key in either lock? Would only the master key operate the central locking if used in the lock?

[Joylove]

If your system is the same as my 2001, you have an imobiliser that works from a passive chip inside the key. It is totally unconnected to your remote central locking, other than they share the same housing inside a key. It is very secure (I won't bore with details) and requires no batteries, it gets power from the coil around the ignition barrel, in the same way an electric toothbrush recharges.

Keyless entry is achieved with a separate alarm module. Later models like yours may have this integrated into the central body module because it's a fairly simple device.

To get your remote central locking working I recommend buying a used key from eBay. There are at least 3 different keys and at least two of those are not the same inside. Mine uses a Denso branded key with a lump on the back of the internal electronic part. At some point they went to a Valeo system that is flat on the back of the internal part. At some point the lettering became embossed and the Badge changed from gold to black after that. The two button remote is usually the three button remote with a different rubberized keypad. I have tried a Valeo gold badged key on my Denso gold badged vehicle and it was not compatible. The internal electronic part of each key contains both the passive chip for the immobiliser and the radio remote for the keyless entry.

once you have your key guts, you can visit carkeyhelp.co.UK who can sell you an empty key cut to your vehicle if you supply them with a good digital Photo for about £15. Elsewhere on their site are the free instructions for learning first the imobilizer chip to the imobiliser and second the remote control to the alarm in two separate sequences.

HTH.

[pmb]

Any comment on the fact the central locking locks/unlocks all the doors from the inside switch, but not if I turn the key in either lock? Would only the master key operate the central locking if used in the lock?

Doesn't look green (kielder green it was called ) in the pic. The grey key doesn't do the central locking. Thought it was a service key that doesn't also unlock the glove box? Originally had 2 black keys and 1 grey. Nice looking NRG that, leather was an option (for the seats) on it.

[Joylove]

Any comment on the fact the central locking locks/unlocks all the doors from the inside switch, but not if I turn the key in either lock? Would only the master key operate the central locking if used in the lock?

Doesn't look green (kielder green it was called ) in the pic. The grey key doesn't do the central locking. Thought it was a service key that doesn't also unlock the glove box? Originally had 2 black keys and 1 grey. Nice looking NRG that, leather was an option (for the seats) on it.

I really like it too, looks to have received a few subtle mods in the brake calipers and wheels, and possibly the front amber turn signals too. I didn't think the leather was an option until after the facelift?

[pmb]

I'd noticed the caliper mod too. Wheels are standard I think , same as mine. NRG came with leather steering wheel and gearshift knob and the full leather package was an option in 2002. Forgot to say the black keys don't control the central locking either, BUT the buttons on them do.

[JamesA]

Thanks again, yeah the green looks really dark in some lights, I'll have to get some decent pics with my camera rather than my phone :)

When I checked it out on the Parkers web site, it said that the metallic paint and leather interior were options. I love the wheels and red callipers, its really tidy all round and only 52k on the clock.

Will try the grey key on the glove box tomorrow and see. My guess is the original keys were lost and someone was just left with the sub key and had it cloned (interesting the clone needs a battery) to save getting locked out. On the basis that I've got 2 keys and should be able to get one cloned again if needs be, I think I'll get an after market remote system and stick that it for £25. Sounds like it will be a lot less messing about really.

Meant to add, neither of my keys have buttons for remote locking.

[pal1]

Hi Joylove

Mine is an 06, and has a denso transponder (or whatever you call it) in the key. the lock button doesn't work, and I don't think the car is being immobilized when locked with the key in the door.

[Joylove]

Hi Joylove

Mine is an 06, and has a denso transponder (or whatever you call it) in the key. the lock button doesn't work, and I don't think the car is being immobilized when locked with the key in the door.

As above, the imobiliser and remote central locking are two separate entities. They are not wired together and don't interact. You can leave the car unlocked, the imobiliser does not know or care, it makes it's decision to active the starter motor based on the presence or otherwise of a valid passive chip that is located inside the electronic guts of the key, shown in the picture.

As a test, try starting the car without the electronic internals shown in the picture (that house the passive transponder chip) in nearby range (eg put it in your pocket.). Expect to see it won't start because it is immobilized until the chip is in range.

notes: the car may start if it previously started with the passive chip in range within the last say 10 minutes. Also the passive chip can be removed after starting as it is only checked at starting. The passive transponder is about 8mm by 3mm and resembles a small glass worm or a black wedge shape.

[dwilson]

Great looking car. Shame they don't make the 3dr RAV still.

David

[pal1]

Hi Joylove

Thanks for the help, so are you saying I need to buy 2 new blank keys with the chip insert, plenty of keys on e-bay, but struggling to find them with the chip for central locking and immobilizer !!

mike

[Joylove]

Hi Joylove

Thanks for the help, so are you saying I need to buy 2 new blank keys with the chip insert, plenty of keys on e-bay, but struggling to find them with the chip for central locking and immobilizer !!

mike

Hi mike, I don't know to much about your 4.3 as to the ability to DIY learn the chip and remote. Spend some time at car key help reading their free files on learning chips and remotes. If they have those two files for your model of car then go ahead and start buying parts.

As above, eBay for exact match used keys with electronic guts. Keep guts, discard key. Carkeyhelp for new keys cut from a good digital photo. Combine the guts with the new cut key and begin your coding routines that you found in the free section of carkeyhelp.