Carina E Performance Question

[rockerbox]

Hello everyone -

I have just joined and hope to pick your brains a little. Posted this also on the Avensis thread - but as yet without any replies.

A few days ago I bought a year 2000 (October) Avensis 2.0 GSI petrol hatchback (43K miles) to supplement and eventually replace my ageing but superbly faithful Carina e GLi 2ltr (110K miles).

The issue I have is that the Carina easily out accelerates the Avensis - don't get me wrong here I'm no boy racer but I have grown to appreciate

the Carinas turn of speed when it's needed now and then. The Avensis is 1290KG - 20KG heavier than the Carina but at 149BHP to the Carinas 133BHP should - I would have thought

- go better than it does.

Road test figures show the two cars neck and neck 8.7 to 60 carina and 9.1 for the avensis and top speeds 127 and 130 respectively - a very marginal difference.

The road wheels are 15" on the Avensis and 14" on the Carina - my initial thoughts were that maybe they shared the same final drive and this longer gearing effect was the

reason for the difference I experience.

Switching the VSC off makes no performance difference that I can tell. There appears to be nothing obviously wrong with the newer car - it's been regularly serviced

and another similar spec car I drove was even more sluggish - put me off buying it. The brakes are not binding - and overall the car appears to be in excellent condition -

however I've not yet checked the air filter - it may have been overlooked in the servicing.

The carinas response is immediate - no lag - the avensis is lazier - more casual and unrushed - but revs freely off load. I understand the carina engine is optimised for torque

and read somewhere that the VVTi Avensis torque curve may be such that power peaks at higher revs. I have taken the Avensis to 4000 RPM in the lower gears before a full

throttle trial - but although making a decent fist of it - the car still doesn't match the older non VVTi Carinas pace.

Can anyone shed some light on this? Appreciate any comments/suggestions.

Many thanks,

[petroleum]

The Avensis is 1290KG - 20KG heavier than the Carina but at 149BHP to the Carinas 133BHP should - I would have thought

16 bhp at the top end is hardly a big difference especially when the new car is heavier and how do yer know it is producing that any how?

You will have seen the top gear crew in one of their episodes road test 3 old super cars and then later find out on a rolling road test that the cars were 30 40 50 + or so bhp short of what they once produced

Some times their is no rhyme nor reason for one car of the same to have an edge!"! Maybe the old carina was tweeked before you got it? only you have the answers!!

[cabcurtains]

Some old codger has plodded around in the Avensis and the car has never been freed'd up and now its too late. This may sound a bit odd but it does happen.

Either that or its being suffocated by a failing cat or air intake blockage?

If you really want to know stick them both on a rolling road and see what the figures say.

[rockerbox]

The Avensis is 1290KG - 20KG heavier than the Carina but at 149BHP to the Carinas 133BHP should - I would have thought

16 bhp at the top end is hardly a big difference especially when the new car is heavier and how do yer know it is producing that any how?

You will have seen the top gear crew in one of their episodes road test 3 old super cars and then later find out on a rolling road test that the cars were 30 40 50 + or so bhp short of what they once produced

Some times their is no rhyme nor reason for one car of the same to have an edge!"! Maybe the old carina was tweeked before you got it? only you have the answers!!

Thank you for your reply - and I agree - I cannot know the power output of each car without the expense of a rolling road - but - the difference between the two

should still hold. The Carina is unlikely to have been tweaked - having been in mature ownership prior to me buying it in 2000. However - retried the Avensis today - and now think

there is nothing wrong with either car. It seems the VVTi Avensis engine has a different power curve to the Carina - in that it appears to 'get on the cam' so to speak at higher revs whereas the Carina has plenty of low down torque. When 'on song' the Avensis does go smartly enough - in conclusion this is my lack of 'Avensis experience' showing through - expecting at least similar low down punch was a mistake. The Carina - as expected - still has a marginal edge - but this now sits about right with the the road test figures for both cars.

In short - now happy on the performance front. The computer readout however is not working as it should - instantaneous values for MPG seem fine - they fluctuate in sympathy with engine load

- but the average reading stays more or less fixed at around 27.5MPG. Average speed shows 15MPH - continuously - never changes. Will have to find out how to reset it I guess. Anyone have any ideas? But perhaps I should target this to the Avensis thread.

Thanks again for your help.

[rockerbox]

Some old codger has plodded around in the Avensis and the car has never been freed'd up and now its too late. This may sound a bit odd but it does happen.

Either that or its being suffocated by a failing cat or air intake blockage?

If you really want to know stick them both on a rolling road and see what the figures say.

Thanks for that. The 'old codger' reasoning may have some truth! For the last 9 years of its life it only did 2.5K miles a year.

But as indicated in my earlier reply I have I think now discovered how to get the best out of the VVTi engine. But as you suggest it won't hurt

to check the air intake and perhaps replace the airfilter. The Carina also has the benefit of a 'free flow' s/s exhaust - an upgrade planned

for the Avensis when it's original exhaust fails.

Appreciate your thoughts.

[cabcurtains]

Good Stuff, its all to easy to assume everyone would know a VVTI is a bit flat at low revs ;) :)

[t-spiritpete]

Hi mate, Your Quote .... " replace my ageing but superbly faithful Carina e GLi 2ltr (110K miles)."

The reason is clear ..... the Carina is just "run in" at 110k miles and will fly like that for another 200k miles so hang on to it ;).

Regards Pete.

[rockerbox]

Hi mate, Your Quote .... " replace my ageing but superbly faithful Carina e GLi 2ltr (110K miles)."

The reason is clear ..... the Carina is just "run in" at 110k miles and will fly like that for another 200k miles so hang on to it ;).

Regards Pete.

Hi Pete -

Y'know I think you may have something there!! I love the old thing - never let me down - the most reliable and most durable car I've ever owned - and a very easy drive with it's low down

pull. Replaced the usual consumables over its generally hard 15 year life - but overall it seems pretty well indestructible.

So I'll take your advice and keep it.

Regards,

Adrian.

[BALIKBAYAN]

You mentioned the different Hp. The hp doesn't say that much. It is the torque that matters. Maybe you have better torque in the Carina. Or the gearbox is better geared in the Carina.

I have recently bought an Avensis and unfourtunately I sold the Carina. I miss that car, even that it started to get too much rust. I like Carina E better than the Avensis. I have not noticed that the Avensis is slower than the Carina though. But I had the 1.6 lit engine in the Carina and now I have the 2 lit D4D engine in the Avensis. I am sure that my Avensis has more torque and hp than the Carina ever had.

[rockerbox]

You mentioned the different Hp. The hp doesn't say that much. It is the torque that matters. Maybe you have better torque in the Carina. Or the gearbox is better geared in the Carina.

I have recently bought an Avensis and unfourtunately I sold the Carina. I miss that car, even that it started to get too much rust. I like Carina E better than the Avensis. I have not noticed that the Avensis is slower than the Carina though. But I had the 1.6 lit engine in the Carina and now I have the 2 lit D4D engine in the Avensis. I am sure that my Avensis has more torque and hp than the Carina ever had.

Apologies for not getting back to you earlier - been away for a while. Yes I suppose it could be a number of subtle differences that account for the performance gap. The Carina is an easy drive - the cable throttle is much better IMO than the electronic module fitted to the avensis - more sensitive and probably less likely to go wrong.

I take it your D4D is a diesel - then I agree no contest in the torque department - but the petrol motors rev higher to help make up for it. I find the avensis to be more stable at speed than the carina - the suspension is a bit stiffer - and the seats are very comfortable. Tried a 2ltr MK2 diesel avensis and it was a very nice drive - didn't like the seats as much as the older car - but we are all different shapes I guess. Enjoy your avensis!