Would you let a computer override you driving to prevent a crash?

[+Steve]

Every year, 1.3 million people are killed and 50 million injured on the world’s roads. Carmakers are racing to create a vehicle that will never crash, but can it be done and will drivers accept a computer that overrides their driving? Would you let a computer override you at the wheel?

[Raistlin]

Every year, 1.3 million people are killed and 50 million injured on the world’s roads. Carmakers are racing to create a vehicle that will never crash, but can it be done and will drivers accept a computer that overrides their driving? Would you let a computer override you at the wheel?

Why not, we do it with trains and planes

[Jamesbelfast]

As long as it ain't made by Mr T - think of all the recalls

[Mistermena]

Tough one ... But so many accidents are caused by driver error! The order in which they happen are... The driver, The vehicle, The road.

If some people were to drive they way they do! (Thats the idiots I'm talking about now... ) Would they expect to pass a Uk driving test? Answer is NO. So should we need a computer to get us out of danger when we have a perfectly good one called a brain?!!!

Drive appropriate to the road, weather and traffic conditions. Just reading the road ahead and to side and rear! Simples

[Karma Supra]

I thought this was already present in the current S class?

And to answer... - no. for two reasons..

1, driver aids tend to be too overpowering and kick in with way to large an error margin.

2, most drivers are bad enough anyway... they don;t need excuses to dumb down further.

[Raistlin]

Tough one ... But so many accidents are caused by driver error! The order in which they happen are... The driver, The vehicle, The road.

If some people were to drive they way they do! (Thats the idiots I'm talking about now... ) Would they expect to pass a Uk driving test? Answer is NO. So should we need a computer to get us out of danger when we have a perfectly good one called a brain?!!!

Drive appropriate to the road, weather and traffic conditions. Just reading the road ahead and to side and rear! Simples

Do they teach reading the road nowadays...

I see very little evidence :shutit:

[Mistermena]

Tough one ... But so many accidents are caused by driver error! The order in which they happen are... The driver, The vehicle, The road.

If some people were to drive they way they do! (Thats the idiots I'm talking about now... ) Would they expect to pass a Uk driving test? Answer is NO. So should we need a computer to get us out of danger when we have a perfectly good one called a brain?!!!

Drive appropriate to the road, weather and traffic conditions. Just reading the road ahead and to side and rear! Simples

Do they teach reading the road nowadays...

I see very little evidence :!Removed!:

Yep we do mate... But after they have passed its up to them! The old saying... "I'm not my brothers keeper" springs to mind.

[junebug1701]

Volvo and Mercedes already have automatic braking systems. Some Lexus and Fords parallel park themselves. Mercedes even advertises a system to alert the driver when he's falling asleep!

I've always said that the smarter they make the car, the stupider the driver will become.

[Karma Supra]

Jeremy Clarkson had the right idea... "Cars are too safe, driving feels so safe now people don't treat it with the respect it deserves"

"If you want to increase the stadnard of driving, replace the airbag with a big metal spike"

I guess if it doesn;t make people pay more attention, it will genetically weed out bad drivers in the long run :D

[KPARRIS-JONES]

Agreed that it's a bad idea, I find that we need to increase the standard that people need to reach before they are allowed to use the roads solo, and as for the comments about reading the road - again it is so true that we are not taught how to and should be, I watch my dad or grandad drive and they are absolutely excellent at reading the roads ahead. It's vital if you're ever going to be able to assess the risks correctly.

The interesting thing about risk assessment is that teenagers are generally phenomenal in their ability to assess risks, even at incredible speed, however what we are generally useless at is making the right decision beyond these parameters. This is how you learn from your mistakes, by making them due to poor decision making as opposed to risk assessment itself.

And from all that the point I am trying to make is that without being told all the parameters to assess, and being witnessed exercising the ability to make decisions from your assessment, how are you going to cut down the number of times you have to learn from bigger mistakes?

KP

[PaulinhoT]

I've only been driving for just over 20 years and still have lots to learn. Yes I've made a few small mistakes in my life but we all do, nothing too serious (thank the lord).

At work I do drive a lot of brand new cars (Fords) and some of them I enjoy but sadly most of them I don't.

I remember coming back from Exeter a little while ago in a brand new Ford S-Max, it wasn't my sort of thing at all, but it was free to use so I wasn't complaining. I was on the M5 for a little while and I took the turn off which consisted of a long looped road that went back under the motorway.

Now I came off it and left the S-Max in 6th gear and decided to test the cars ESP stability control, needless to say the car just went around the corner with ease at which point I thought to myself "if I was driving my 328i E36 I would of spun off backwards and crashed very badly".

The following week I had to test drive a VW Blue Motion Polo, again only a couple of weeks old. I went on a local test run up a really differecult hill section where I live which has some really tight second gear corners, needless to say the car flew up the hill with out a hick up or care in the world. I tried lifting off mid corner, on entry to the corner and it just went around them. Not being too clued up on VW's I said to our foreman "for a little car it's actuallty !Removed! good, and handles like a Go-Kart", I then said it actually felt like it was driving for me at somepoints.

Sadly the car was fitted with ESP and EDL (Electronic Differential Lock).

I'm not saying it's a bad thing at all, as I can remember driving my 2L GT Mk3 Cortina, and if you did more than 25mph around a roundabout you had rather large balls lol.. I think my point is that the new breed of cars will make demon drivers of everyone, so when an old lady goes around you on the outside of a corner whilst your finding it hard to even stay on the road, well think to yourself.. Is it her or her car

[Mistermena]

Agreed that it's a bad idea, I find that we need to increase the standard that people need to reach before they are allowed to use the roads solo, and as for the comments about reading the road - again it is so true that we are not taught how to and should be, I watch my dad or grandad drive and they are absolutely excellent at reading the roads ahead. It's vital if you're ever going to be able to assess the risks correctly.

The interesting thing about risk assessment is that teenagers are generally phenomenal in their ability to assess risks, even at incredible speed, however what we are generally useless at is making the right decision beyond these parameters. This is how you learn from your mistakes, by making them due to poor decision making as opposed to risk assessment itself.

And from all that the point I am trying to make is that without being told all the parameters to assess, and being witnessed exercising the ability to make decisions from your assessment, how are you going to cut down the number of times you have to learn from bigger mistakes?

KP

I beg to differ on the point regarding "Reading the road ahead" as driving instructors do teach this whilst you are preparing for the "L" test. The problem is that once this is passed drivers dont try to keep this skill up (Like crossing there hands whilst steering) and improve on whats been learnt. Driving is a life skill and should be worked at and not just rely on passing the UK test and sit back as "I've already passed it" now...

It is upto that person to try and maintain/improve the skills that has been taught to them

BTW... When I teach you I will be teaching you to read the road ahead and to plan the drive to keep you (And others) safe...

[KPARRIS-JONES]

Agreed that it's a bad idea, I find that we need to increase the standard that people need to reach before they are allowed to use the roads solo, and as for the comments about reading the road - again it is so true that we are not taught how to and should be, I watch my dad or grandad drive and they are absolutely excellent at reading the roads ahead. It's vital if you're ever going to be able to assess the risks correctly.

The interesting thing about risk assessment is that teenagers are generally phenomenal in their ability to assess risks, even at incredible speed, however what we are generally useless at is making the right decision beyond these parameters. This is how you learn from your mistakes, by making them due to poor decision making as opposed to risk assessment itself.

And from all that the point I am trying to make is that without being told all the parameters to assess, and being witnessed exercising the ability to make decisions from your assessment, how are you going to cut down the number of times you have to learn from bigger mistakes?

KP

BTW... When I teach you I will be teaching you to read the road ahead and to plan the drive to keep you (And others) safe...

Now that I am pleased to hear!

KP

[Mistermena]

Agreed that it's a bad idea, I find that we need to increase the standard that people need to reach before they are allowed to use the roads solo, and as for the comments about reading the road - again it is so true that we are not taught how to and should be, I watch my dad or grandad drive and they are absolutely excellent at reading the roads ahead. It's vital if you're ever going to be able to assess the risks correctly.

The interesting thing about risk assessment is that teenagers are generally phenomenal in their ability to assess risks, even at incredible speed, however what we are generally useless at is making the right decision beyond these parameters. This is how you learn from your mistakes, by making them due to poor decision making as opposed to risk assessment itself.

And from all that the point I am trying to make is that without being told all the parameters to assess, and being witnessed exercising the ability to make decisions from your assessment, how are you going to cut down the number of times you have to learn from bigger mistakes?

KP

BTW... When I teach you I will be teaching you to read the road ahead and to plan the drive to keep you (And others) safe...

Now that I am pleased to hear!

KP

Nice one my mate

[Leeky]

No.

No exceptions, whether im right or wrong the car should damn well do what i tell it!

This is why i only have power steering in my car. Its the only thing i want. Not in the least bit interested in things like ABS, let alone traction control.

[Red diesel]

All these safety computers and what not are all very well - but what if they go wrong and the silly driver

is relying on his/her safety gizmo. Thanks but no thanks - ive a better solution, pay attention to your driving and road conditions.

The problem with things like ESP and all other such advances is that - it encourages less competant drivers or those not fussed about driving

to sit back and relax. With something like an old Bluebird - it will still do the job of getting you from A to B but

you have to think about driving the car a little bit more - which is a good thing imo.

When i say thinking about driving the car - you would be aware that you don't have ABS (ABS is a good thing actually but stick with me) and all the other gadgets.

You thus have to think ahead a bit more - for example coming off a motorway in the rain - in a modern car you take it for granted that you have ABS, however relying on

said ABS is a poor driving plan. Its perfectly possible (imo) to drive say 1980s/90s cars such as Mk 2 Golfs, Sierras, Bluebirds, Mk 1 Mondeos, Mk 1 Lagunas and Vauxhall Senators in modern traffic conditions. You just have to think about whats going on around you more than many drivers of modern cars are accustomed to - which

imo makes for ultimately safer driving.

Red diesel

[Parts-King]

Would you let a computer override you at the wheel?

Not if it was made by Microsoft NO :D:

[jirehn]

I think this is good, A computer operated, Some drivers are very careless when driving.

[Karma Supra]

Then surely it is better to weed out those drivers either by better training or harder testing.

That way when one day the computer fails or "goes a bit slow" as it inevitably will. And there is an accident those same drivers can't then say "it wasn't my fault it was the computer".

I think ABS is good, although the Toyota ABS, like the Mercedes stuff is too intrusive and kicks in too early, causing negative reactions like Leeky's, I like the stuff in my M3, it only kicks on once the wheels have actually locked... but I never had any issues on my none ABS cars (a fairly modified supra, a soarer and an MR2) I can also undoubtedly conform that once on a wet motorway when a car veered into my lane and slammed its anchors on hard, I'd have not been able to avoid it without ABS.. It’s not the shorter stopping distances (a decent driver can do a good job with cadence braking) but the fact that during an emergency stop you can also emergency steer if you are running out of space...

I also have changed my views on traction control too, as long as it can be PROPERLY turned off, and when on is not too intrusive it is ok. Again it all depends how good the systems are. even in "normal" mode on the M3 I can kick the back end out if I feel the need so it doesn't kill steering liveliness, (on a hot sub 9 minute Nurburgring lap the only time the ESC light came on at all was when I got slightly airborne at full throttle... to me that is by no means an intrusive system!)

It also has an "M track" mode that allows you even more freedom but will step in if you go really wrong... and of course then there is proper "off"

The Mercedes Traction control is horrid and over intrusive, what’s more when you turn it off it stays on in a lower state mode... this annoys me massively. I am very much against stuff like that.

[Red diesel]

Then surely it is better to weed out those drivers either by better training or harder testing.

That way when one day the computer fails or "goes a bit slow" as it inevitably will. And there is an accident those same drivers can't then say "it wasn't my fault it was the computer".

I think ABS is good, although the Toyota ABS, like the Mercedes stuff is too intrusive and kicks in too early, causing negative reactions like Leeky's, I like the stuff in my M3, it only kicks on once the wheels have actually locked... but I never had any issues on my none ABS cars (a fairly modified supra, a soarer and an MR2) I can also undoubtedly conform that once on a wet motorway when a car veered into my lane and slammed its anchors on hard, I'd have not been able to avoid it without ABS.. It’s not the shorter stopping distances (a decent driver can do a good job with cadence braking) but the fact that during an emergency stop you can also emergency steer if you are running out of space...

I also have changed my views on traction control too, as long as it can be PROPERLY turned off, and when on is not too intrusive it is ok. Again it all depends how good the systems are. even in "normal" mode on the M3 I can kick the back end out if I feel the need so it doesn't kill steering liveliness, (on a hot sub 9 minute Nurburgring lap the only time the ESC light came on at all was when I got slightly airborne at full throttle... to me that is by no means an intrusive system!)

It also has an "M track" mode that allows you even more freedom but will step in if you go really wrong... and of course then there is proper "off"

The Mercedes Traction control is horrid and over intrusive, what’s more when you turn it off it stays on in a lower state mode... this annoys me massively. I am very much against stuff like that.

Yes ABS is a fine thing - couldn't really be bothered with any of the other gizmos though lol, in saying that however id still be happy to drive a car without ABS, that mindset probably comes from driving Massey Fergusons without ABS. I imagine if i was doing 65 000 miles a year flying up and down the motorway id probably soil my trousers at the idea of doing those miles without the backup of ABS though (i don't mean relying on it which i think is silly).

Red diesel

[Jan&tone]

I think ABS is good, although the Toyota ABS, like the Mercedes stuff is too intrusive and kicks in too early

Eh? I've had abs on loads of Toyota's and apart from the time I deliberately try the abs to test the reaction I have NEVER had the ABS kick in!

IMO you must really be Driving too close or hitting the brakes too hard for the ABS to have to help you.

[Karma Supra]

My point is that it kicks in before it is needed.

I'm talking from the perspective of a drivers car, with all due respect, if you run an Aygo or a Prius, you probably aren't interested in the sort of driving we are talking about...

[Raistlin]

My point is that it kicks in before it is needed.

I'm talking from the perspective of a drivers car, with all due respect, if you run an Aygo or a Prius, you probably aren't interested in the sort of driving we are talking about...

I didn't always run an Aygo, I used to drive a red MR2 GT T-Bar with the NA 2.0L 3S-GE engine.

[Karma Supra]

That wasn't aimed at you

[Jan&tone]

My point is that it kicks in before it is needed.

I'm talking from the perspective of a drivers car, with all due respect, if you run an Aygo or a Prius, you probably aren't interested in the sort of driving we are talking about...

You are correct - these days I prefer to drive so that I don't need to use the ABS - my tearaway days are long gone thank goodness