D-Cat Ran Out Of Fuel And Won't Start

[harrilum]

Hi,

It just so happened that our RAV4 D.Cat 177 stopped with an empty tank. Don't ask me why, the missus could not explain either why she kept on driving until the fuel finally ran out. I thought I could play hero just by refilling 20 litres of diesel from a jerrycan and press start but alas, the car would not start. A few more tries and finally I had to dig the manual out of the glovebox. The manual instructed to keep pressing the little pump button on the fuel filter until resistance can be felt. No resistance on the button after 5 minutes of pumping so obviusly there must be air somewhere where there should not be any. Reading the manual further, there was bolded text saying that the engine should not be cranked before doing the pumping bit first. Unfortunately it was too late by then. The next advice was to take the car to an authorised Toyota dealer. Before I call the dealer, is there anything I could try that could help start the car and not cause any further damage?

Thanks in advance for any tips.

Regards,

Harri

[anchorman]

The reason it says don't crank the engine is so you don't damage the high pressure pump. However, this is unlikely so don't worry.

If you look where the pipes come out at the top of the filter you will see that they have arrows on them. One of them points out and the pipe loops over to the engine. If you get a pair of pliers and squeeze the clip you can push it down the pipe. Use the pliers to gently twist the pipe and then you can detach it. Start to pump the fuel again and make sure you push the plunger right down until it stops. When the fuel pumps through, put the pipe back on and the clip. Pump the plunger again and it will soon become stiff. At this stage you can start the engine. It will sound rough at first but it will soon clear.

Be patient, you will get it started. It is easier with the car on level ground or facing downhill. If it is stopped facing uphill it will take a little more effort.

[sniper9652]

Hi,

It just so happened that our RAV4 D.Cat 177 stopped with an empty tank. Don't ask me why, the missus could not explain either why she kept on driving until the fuel finally ran out. I thought I could play hero just by refilling 20 litres of diesel from a jerrycan and press start but alas, the car would not start. A few more tries and finally I had to dig the manual out of the glovebox. The manual instructed to keep pressing the little pump button on the fuel filter until resistance can be felt. No resistance on the button after 5 minutes of pumping so obviusly there must be air somewhere where there should not be any. Reading the manual further, there was bolded text saying that the engine should not be cranked before doing the pumping bit first. Unfortunately it was too late by then. The next advice was to take the car to an authorised Toyota dealer. Before I call the dealer, is there anything I could try that could help start the car and not cause any further damage?

Thanks in advance for any tips.

Regards,

Harri

Looks like good advice from anchorman! If you have had a chance to carry this out what was the result?

Steve

[bothwell_buyer]

Generally with our diesel engines, ancs method is a start... but we tend to let the engine run well out of diesel. Depending on the type of oil-burning engine we have had to crack open the injectors (Fiat engined generator) and let any air out of them as well by using the same manual pumping lever method. It does take a fair few pumps and sometimes we have had to link the Battery to another to give it a boost. However oil-burners seem to be simplistic once you expunge the air so just take some time to do it enough to then get the lump running - and yes as ancs says it may run oddly til til the air gets sooked in and removed.

signed

yer basic oil-burning lump lover !!!!!

[harrilum]

Anchorman, thankyou for your response. It looks like I will be too busy to do anything to the car in the next couple of days but on boxing day I will try to find some time. Have a great Christmas!

[harrilum]

I have had to open an injector on a Perkins in a Massey Ferguson which is a simple task, but I thought you should not do it on a common rail engine. I hope ancs' method works. Merry Christmas!

[Manxrav]

Anchs method will work, the lads a GENIUS!!!! trust me

Regards Clare

[Big Kev]

Generally with our diesel engines, ancs method is a start... but we tend to let the engine run well out of diesel. Depending on the type of oil-burning engine we have had to crack open the injectors (Fiat engined generator) and let any air out of them as well by using the same manual pumping lever method. It does take a fair few pumps and sometimes we have had to link the battery to another to give it a boost. However oil-burners seem to be simplistic once you expunge the air so just take some time to do it enough to then get the lump running - and yes as ancs says it may run oddly til til the air gets sooked in and removed.

signed

yer basic oil-burning lump lover !!!!!

Bothy....what have you been told?...whisky....NO.... go get coffee.

BIG KEV

[Big Kev]

Anchs method will work, the lads a GENIUS!!!! trust me

Regards Clare

Clare dead right, Harri...he even managed to take my dashboard to bits, and then....well, the rest is history....he says it's an extra safety feature being able to see out ma windscreen and out ma dashboard....chilly though.......

Grateful Kev

[acetip]

Surprised that these engines are not self bleeding,but not having much experiance with common rail.but as already said,engine should not be cranked to bleed as this could damage fuel pummp.thats why?

[anchorman]

Most fluid pumps are lubricated by the fluid they pump. The HP pump is capable of creating in excess of 1500 bar (22,000 psi) so that the injectors can virtually atomise heavy diesel oil and is not intended to run light. However, for the purpose of cranking the engine I doubt it will have done much harm as it will have residual fuel inside for a while. There is an additional risk that the ECU will try that hard to start the engine while cranking that it will go outside the normal parameters for the engine to run. In this case it has to be reset by a dealer. It seems that Harri hasn't managed to prime the fuel through so once that is proved we will worry about complications.

DO NOT undo any injector pipes. If that is done on this engine then they should be replaced and I seem to remember that these special thick walled pipes are about £70 each. If it is bled up properly it will start - Kev has witnessed the priming operation and he will tell you there is nothing much to it or he would have taken charge!

Some engines self prime but they rely on an electric pump in the fuel tank. The only problem there is that adds a reliablity problem which RAVs don't suffer from.

[Guest]

So reading between the lines, the moral is "dont run out of fuel again"

Gus

[anchorman]

It happens. The same applies to changing the filter - it has to be bled afterwards.

[Jamesbelfast]

If you can get someone to keep pressing the primer whilst the engine is cranking it will also assist. The closer to the high pressure fuel pump you can bleed a fuel line all the better.

[harrilum]

If you look where the pipes come out at the top of the filter you will see that they have arrows on them. One of them points out and the pipe loops over to the engine.

If it is stopped facing uphill it will take a little more effort.

Hi. I hope everyone had a nice Christmas. Now I finally have some time to look at the RAV. There are four hoses connected to the filter housing. I labeled them from A to D in the attached picture. The only hose with an arrow pointing out is B. How about hoses C and D, should one of them also be disconnected? With hose B disconnected I pumped for a couple of minutes with no success. The car ran out of fuel going uphill so maybe I just did not pump long enough..

Thanks and regards,

Harri

[ormi]

B is the return pipe thats the wrong one......

D is the one you want to disconnect.....

pump till the diesel comes out of this one once the diesel starts to come out hold the pump down and put the pipe back on then pump till hard then try and start if you can get some one to pump while trying to start....that should work

[anchorman]

Harri.

I see you have a left hand drive vehicle. You have the correct pipe - the two lower down are on the return side.

Is this vehicle standing on level ground? If not you may have to add more fuel. If so, remove pipe A and either lean right over or extend the pipe so you can reach it better. Blow down the pipe and see if it has back pressure. If not, the fuel is lower than the pick up pipe in the tank. If you can feel it blowing bubbles in the fuel that is a good start. You can now either suck and see if you get fuel (diesel tastes fowl but a mouth full never did me any harm). Alternatively, if you can find some clear plastic tube that will fit inside the pipe you can suck it until you see it. Once you have got it to the filter you can reconnect it and pump again with pipe B disconnected. If it doesn't come it could be the filter is blocked so change it, or the pump is cream crackered. You will feel when the hand pump is working as it gives some resistance as the fuel is drawn through.

[harrilum]

Harri.

I see you have a left hand drive vehicle. You have the correct pipe - the two lower down are on the return side.

Is this vehicle standing on level ground? If not you may have to add more fuel. If so, remove pipe A and either lean right over or extend the pipe so you can reach it better. Blow down the pipe and see if it has back pressure. If not, the fuel is lower than the pick up pipe in the tank. If you can feel it blowing bubbles in the fuel that is a good start. You can now either suck and see if you get fuel (diesel tastes fowl but a mouth full never did me any harm). Alternatively, if you can find some clear plastic tube that will fit inside the pipe you can suck it until you see it. Once you have got it to the filter you can reconnect it and pump again with pipe B disconnected. If it doesn't come it could be the filter is blocked so change it, or the pump is cream crackered. You will feel when the hand pump is working as it gives some resistance as the fuel is drawn through.

Thanks again for the advice Anchorman. Yes it is left hand drive. I am in Finland. The lower pipes seem to be the right ones since pipe A comes from the engine and B goes back to the tank. D goes into what I think is the high pressure pump. I blew down pipe C and heard bubbles from the tank so I assume the 20 litres I poured in should be enough. I changed the filter and managed to suck diesel out of pipe D. It seems that the pump is not working since it will not give any resistance. Is there a diaphragm that can be changed in the pump or does the whole filter housing have to be replaced if it is the pump?

[jedi134]

As you are in Finland maybe somthings frozen?

[harrilum]

As you are in Finland maybe somthings frozen?

I doubt it as we have had a very "warm" winter so far. It is only -2 at the moment and the diesel is winter grade (good to -29 degrees).

[ormi]

trust me its D you want the fuel coming from ie the one that feeds the high pressure pump....im forever getting sent out to silly peeps that ignore the very bright orange fuel light...you want to bleed the system up to the high pressure fuel pump once the high pressure pump has fuel a few cranks and it will fire up...if you want take the pipe off the high pressure pump and pump the plunger then as said once diesel has come through hold the plunger down then put the pipe back on.....

ps it does take a while to come through if its been run dry

if you look at were the pipes a&b attatch on too on the filter housing the arrows go away from the car pushing the plunger on its own wont get diesel coming out of the returns

ps c is the feed from the tank....

you could also try filling the fuel filter with fuel then when it starts pump the plunger like mad that will draw the fuel through

so in short

C feed from the tank to the filter

D feed from the filter to the high pressure pump

A return from the injectors to the filter housing

B return from the filter housing to the tank

[harrilum]

I now have fuel coming out from D (by sucking with a clear hose) so the filter must be full. The problem is that when I reattach the hose to the filter housing and pump like mad the plunger won't go hard at all. Next I'll make sure the hose from the filter to the high pressure pump is also full of fuel.

I kind of understand people who run out of fuel since the orange light lights up very early on the RAV4 and when you get used to it you drive with the light on and gauge dial at R for a bit longer each time. Also on ours there is another bright orange light flashing continuously since the winter tyres don't have the senders on the valves. We have now agreed that running out of fuel won't happen in our family again.

[harrilum]

Thanks for your help! I finally managed to get the car sorted. The original hose clamp on pipe C was not doing its job anymore. Air was entering the system and pressing the plunger had no effect. After installing an ABA clamp it was much easier to follow your advice.

Cheers!

Harri