Is This Right?

[4.1GX]

Hi all, hope you are all enjoying the festivities! I am seeking some advice again...... We have the T180 Rav which recently had the engine fix done due to excess oil burn and has done around 7000 miles since.

I noticed recently that the coolant level kept dropping and it was spraying it over the back of the engine so ran it back into Toyota and they have diagnosed that the head gasket has gone again!!! They have told me the reason is that the EGR valve has become blocked again and the pistons have excessive carbon build up and the combination of these two factors has caused the head gasket failure.

Does this sound right? It doesnt to me. Surely if the EGR was blocked to such an extent then the emission control light should have illuminated or there should be a fault code stored in the engine management controller??

I have spoken to Toyota direct who said they will investigate but I dont want the same issue in another 7,000 miles or so. I run it on Shell Diesel so am suprised about the excess carbon comments. It is also run on the mototrway 2-3 times a week so its not as if it just does the school run.

So am just seeking some advice - can the pistons / EGR block in such a short time / mileage?

[anchorman]

Only if there is something seriously wrong.

Given the circumstances, ask them to replace the engine rather than repair it.

[Heidfirst]

at least on the Avensis the fix for the hg problem is a replacement 3/4 block

[Big Kev]

at least on the Avensis the fix for the hg problem is a replacement 3/4 block

As it is for the Rav, Heidy....I am presuming this engine fix was originally done on "Edict One", which allowed for it to be put right by dismantle / inspect / repair. As we all now know "Edict Two" calls for the replacement of a 3/4 engine.

Definitely heels must be well dug in here and get the full bhoona done this time.

Can I ask of 4.1GX....WHAT WAS THE ORIGINAL MILEAGE THE ENGINE HAD COVERED PRIOR TO "REPAIR" ?

So far at 24k miles, my SR180 USES NO OIL, AND ONLY RUNS ON Shell V-POWER DIESEL. When Anchorman showed me how to remove EGR earlier this year, soot was pretty minimal.....but who knows what the future holds....?

Big Kev

[bothwell_buyer]

If the thing has only lasted 7000 miles, then was the work done to repair up to standard or is it that the engine is fundamentally gubbed?

Either way I thought Toyota would want to recover the engine and inspect and give you another new one ??

[4.1GX]

Hi all, thx for the comments as they align with my thoughts.

Big Kev, the original engine had done approx 82k when it first failed and is now on 89k. I wasn't aware of the Edict one / two scenario but I am defo going to push for a full replacement motor this time.

Shame really as we both really like the car and the missus doesn't want to part with it but I am nervous we are approaching the warranty 107k limit

[Big Kev]

Hi all, thx for the comments as they align with my thoughts.

Big Kev, the original engine had done approx 82k when it first failed and is now on 89k. I wasn't aware of the Edict one / two scenario but I am defo going to push for a full replacement motor this time.

Shame really as we both really like the car and the missus doesn't want to part with it but I am nervous we are approaching the warranty 107k limit

Somebody somewhere has made a nairse of this, J,,,,,be firm but civil with your dealer. Perhaps me ol' mucker Davrav will send you the Link to what I am calling "Edict 2" re engine replacement TSB....? Cannot remember the name of another regular poster who is in same position as you re the REPAIR scenario going wrong. Keep us posticated.

Interested for obvious reasons Kev

[local hero]

We are all interested in this , maybe any of us that have had the "fix" or even the replacement engine, and done a reasonable mileage since should whip off the EGR and have a quick check that the problem has really gone away.. The "Fix" involved replacement pistons that were said to be the underlying problem, just maybe they got it wrong Stew

[Big Kev]

We are all interested in this , maybe any of us that have had the "fix" or even the replacement engine, and done a reasonable mileage since should whip off the EGR and have a quick check that the problem has really gone away.. The "Fix" involved replacement pistons that were said to be the underlying problem, just maybe they got it wrong Stew

Spot on, Stewpot.....AND YOU THE WAN WHO KEEPS CLAIMING TO BE "NON-TECHNICAL" !!!! I suppose logic like this comes with age......any takers on this suggestion...?

Big Kev

[Mistermena]

Hi all, hope you are all enjoying the festivities! I am seeking some advice again...... We have the T180 Rav which recently had the engine fix done due to excess oil burn and has done around 7000 miles since.

I noticed recently that the coolant level kept dropping and it was spraying it over the back of the engine so ran it back into Toyota and they have diagnosed that the head gasket has gone again!!! They have told me the reason is that the EGR valve has become blocked again and the pistons have excessive carbon build up and the combination of these two factors has caused the head gasket failure.

Does this sound right? It doesnt to me. Surely if the EGR was blocked to such an extent then the emission control light should have illuminated or there should be a fault code stored in the engine management controller??

I have spoken to Toyota direct who said they will investigate but I dont want the same issue in another 7,000 miles or so. I run it on Shell Diesel so am suprised about the excess carbon comments. It is also run on the mototrway 2-3 times a week so its not as if it just does the school run.

So am just seeking some advice - can the pistons / EGR block in such a short time / mileage?

I've had 2 engines now on my T-180!!! The 1st lasted about 6k and this one is pushing 10k. I've been in far to many times to Mr T (Because of white marks on engine cover again ect) that I can remember. I've now bought a Snap-on combuston leak tester (TESTS BY DETECTING HYDROCARBONS IN THE COOLANT) to do my own tests. If this proves positive I will be going back into Mr T with the results a respectfully asking them to replace the engine for one built in Japan.

I've always run my car on Shell V-Power derv and cleaned the EGR valve every 6k after the 1st build. But the engine still suffered from the head gasket issue. The T-180 is a lovely car to drive but it really is getting to the point where I just want to get rid and go back the Audi and there awful customer service!... Time will tell once the testing kit comes and the results are in.

I'm just hoping that I'm wrong and the white marks on the engine cover is all in my mind!!!

[anchorman]

The problem is that the 2.2 engine is very complicated and it needs a pukka mechanic to successfully overhaul it. I'm afrain Mr T like many other dealerships have so called "Technicians" or "Techy's" that have never served a proper apprenticeship but have done a couple of NVQs and wear a posh boiler suite. Of course there will be odd good ones but you can't rely on getting one.

I've had the front bumper off mine today and changed the oil. The filter couldn't have been any tighter if it was welded on. Not only that but the lemon that did it has used copperslip to lube the sealing ring. The book is all stamped up but it is just another example of why I cannot abide these eejits on anything that matters.

[Mistermena]

Copperslip!!!??? Well that kinda says it all Don My 12 year old daughter knows not to use that on a rubber gasket! In fact it even tells them on the filter box what to use! This is the problem that some of us are getting on here with re-builds. This must be costing Toyota a small fortune to have to replace multiple power units when it should just be the 1 and job done...

[local hero]

We are all interested in this , maybe any of us that have had the "fix" or even the replacement engine, and done a reasonable mileage since should whip off the EGR and have a quick check that the problem has really gone away.. The "Fix" involved replacement pistons that were said to be the underlying problem, just maybe they got it wrong Stew

Spot on, Stewpot.....AND YOU THE WAN WHO KEEPS CLAIMING TO BE "NON-TECHNICAL" !!!! I suppose logic like this comes with age......any taker's on this suggestion...?

Big Kev

TBH Kev, one of the things that i get a little miffed about, is that for nearly 2 years i campaigned against much more knowledgable people than myself, that if EGRs were blocking up at 5/10/20ks then something was wrong and i got largely ignored, then a Techy type i think called Luke came on from Toyota and said there was a known fault, and all of a sudden everyones up in arms and new engines are being fitted, Now, as stated my mechanical knowledge is non existant, but i have driven diesels with far worse engines than Toyota, and yes they have had EGRs cleaned and replaced but not at 5000ml intervals, it seems to me that all this emissions stuff with euro4/5/6 is ruining decent engines, Stew

P.S. the price of new cabs has been inreased by £3000+ because they have to comply with Euro5 and are fitting dual cats and particulate filters (whatever they are)

[anchorman]

You were always right Stew. The problem was that at the time, we didn't have a better solution than using decent fuel and keeping the EGR clean. It is only since TGB have taken the issue on the chin that the proper alternative exists. In some ways it is the honourable thing for them to do but lets face it, they don't have to and I don't know of another manufacturer that would step up to the mark like Toyota have done. It is just this kind of action that assures them of my business and was instrumental in getting me back from my Naive foray to Kia.

I must also say that my relationship with RRG Macclesfield is equally comforting and part os that decision.

[bothwell_buyer]

Is macclesfield where the mackerel come from ?

On engine rebuilds, whats been said is quite right. The T mechanics in a dealership may not have served their time nor have sufficient interest. remember they probably were sorting Fiats before the dealership location changed.

The last local T dealership near me said that fitting the 3SGTE was impossible...... but that was before they disappeared. The showroom and garage still lies empty, with the Toyota logos and seats ect sitting lonely.

[4.1GX]

Hi all! Firstly thanks for the informative posts and docs to support my query, much appreciated.

Ok so got the car back today but it hasn't had a 3/4 engine, just head gasket and new cam followers??? I don't understand what cam followers has to do with a replacement head gasket??

I spoke to Toyota UK before collecting it but they wouldn't get involved or send the field service mastertech to view the damage, they said that the dealer had trained technicians and in any case they advised me that i wasn't obliged to take it back to the original repairing dealership if I didn't wish to. Not quite the response I expected but hey ho, if they want to keep forking out for repair after repair then so be it.

The dealership have insisted that I return the car in 1000 miles for an oil level check and were quite insistent on this. They commented that the oil level was low again so they wanted to make sure it isn't burning oil - I think that given the EGR and pistons have excessive carbon plus the oil level was low again then it seems to me that it is.

So we either trade it in or look forward to the high probability of another engine strip / repair in the not too distant future.....

[Dale mill]

Hi all! Firstly thanks for the informative posts and docs to support my query, much appreciated.

Ok so got the car back today but it hasn't had a 3/4 engine, just head gasket and new cam followers??? I don't understand what cam followers has to do with a replacement head gasket??

I spoke to Toyota UK before collecting it but they wouldn't get involved or send the field service mastertech to view the damage, they said that the dealer had trained technicians and in any case they advised me that i wasn't obliged to take it back to the original repairing dealership if I didn't wish to. Not quite the response I expected but hey ho, if they want to keep forking out for repair after repair then so be it.

The dealership have insisted that I return the car in 1000 miles for an oil level check and were quite insistent on this. They commented that the oil level was low again so they wanted to make sure it isn't burning oil - I think that given the EGR and pistons have excessive carbon plus the oil level was low again then it seems to me that it is.

So we either trade it in or look forward to the high probability of another engine strip / repair in the not too distant future.....

It won't be a repair the next time it will be the engine replacement as I'm sure the dealer ships are not allowed to repair these engine any more as toyota won't pay them to do so . Stick with it and u could have a new engine very soon

[Davrav]

Hi all! Firstly thanks for the informative posts and docs to support my query, much appreciated.

Ok so got the car back today but it hasn't had a 3/4 engine, just head gasket and new cam followers??? I don't understand what cam followers has to do with a replacement head gasket??

I spoke to Toyota UK before collecting it but they wouldn't get involved or send the field service mastertech to view the damage, they said that the dealer had trained technicians and in any case they advised me that i wasn't obliged to take it back to the original repairing dealership if I didn't wish to. Not quite the response I expected but hey ho, if they want to keep forking out for repair after repair then so be it.

The dealership have insisted that I return the car in 1000 miles for an oil level check and were quite insistent on this. They commented that the oil level was low again so they wanted to make sure it isn't burning oil - I think that given the EGR and pistons have excessive carbon plus the oil level was low again then it seems to me that it is.

So we either trade it in or look forward to the high probability of another engine strip / repair in the not too distant future.....

It won't be a repair the next time it will be the engine replacement as I'm sure the dealer ships are not allowed to repair these engine any more as toyota won't pay them to do so . Stick with it and u could have a new engine very soon

My thoughts exactly but, if they do another re-build, that may be the time to part company

[Dale mill]

Hi all, hope you are all enjoying the festivities! I am seeking some advice again...... We have the T180 Rav which recently had the engine fix done due to excess oil burn and has done around 7000 miles since.

I noticed recently that the coolant level kept dropping and it was spraying it over the back of the engine so ran it back into Toyota and they have diagnosed that the head gasket has gone again!!! They have told me the reason is that the EGR valve has become blocked again and the pistons have excessive carbon build up and the combination of these two factors has caused the head gasket failure.

Does this sound right? It doesnt to me. Surely if the EGR was blocked to such an extent then the emission control light should have illuminated or there should be a fault code stored in the engine management controller??

I have spoken to Toyota direct who said they will investigate but I dont want the same issue in another 7,000 miles or so. I run it on Shell Diesel so am suprised about the excess carbon comments. It is also run on the mototrway 2-3 times a week so its not as if it just does the school run.

So am just seeking some advice - can the pistons / EGR block in such a short time / mileage?

I've had 2 engines now on my T-180!!! The 1st lasted about 6k and this one is pushing 10k. I've been in far to many times to Mr T (Because of white marks on engine cover again ect) that I can remember. I've now bought a Snap-on combuston leak tester (TESTS BY DETECTING HYDROCARBONS IN THE COOLANT) to do my own tests. If this proves positive I will be going back into Mr T with the results a respectfully asking them to replace the engine for one built in Japan.

I've always run my car on Shell V-Power derv and cleaned the EGR valve every 6k after the 1st build. But the engine still suffered from the head gasket issue. The T-180 is a lovely car to drive but it really is getting to the point where I just want to get rid and go back the Audi and there awful customer service!... Time will tell once the testing kit comes and the results are in.

I'm just hoping that I'm wrong and the white marks on the engine cover is all in my mind!!!

when you say you've had 2 engines do you mean you've had the same one repaired twice or you've actually had the 3/4 engine replacment twice

[Big Kev]

I am reading it as two repairs myself, which quite honestly is shutting the barn door after the bird's flown out of the bush looking for spilt milk to cry over. This dealer is chain puller of the first order, and as mentioned by Anchorman, it is possible that somebody not really well qualified is rebuilding a very complex piece of engineering. I trust that regular worthwhile contributors like Ormi take no offence, but if ma best mate was a Toyota Tech, I would still be insisting on a 3/4 engine.....this is heading down the same road as Taff (Mistermena), now renamed Chris Rea Avenue....

Big Kev

[Parts-King]

It won't be a repair the next time it will be the engine replacement as I'm sure the dealer ships are not allowed to repair these engine any more as toyota won't pay them to do so . Stick with it and u could have a new engine very soon

Before the replacement engines were available (The 3/4 engine) dealers only option was a repair

When the 3/4 engine was available, the only option was to replace the engine with a 3/4 engine, if a dealer strips it, he wont be paid

If you have had an engine that was stripped and repaired, it is very unlikely you will get a 3/4 engine, just another repair

That's the rules as I see it at this moment in time

Kingo

[Mistermena]

Hi all, hope you are all enjoying the festivities! I am seeking some advice again...... We have the T180 Rav which recently had the engine fix done due to excess oil burn and has done around 7000 miles since.

I noticed recently that the coolant level kept dropping and it was spraying it over the back of the engine so ran it back into Toyota and they have diagnosed that the head gasket has gone again!!! They have told me the reason is that the EGR valve has become blocked again and the pistons have excessive carbon build up and the combination of these two factors has caused the head gasket failure.

Does this sound right? It doesnt to me. Surely if the EGR was blocked to such an extent then the emission control light should have illuminated or there should be a fault code stored in the engine management controller??

I have spoken to Toyota direct who said they will investigate but I dont want the same issue in another 7,000 miles or so. I run it on Shell Diesel so am suprised about the excess carbon comments. It is also run on the mototrway 2-3 times a week so its not as if it just does the school run.

So am just seeking some advice - can the pistons / EGR block in such a short time / mileage?

I've had 2 engines now on my T-180!!! The 1st lasted about 6k and this one is pushing 10k. I've been in far to many times to Mr T (Because of white marks on engine cover again ect) that I can remember. I've now bought a Snap-on combuston leak tester (TESTS BY DETECTING HYDROCARBONS IN THE COOLANT) to do my own tests. If this proves positive I will be going back into Mr T with the results a respectfully asking them to replace the engine for one built in Japan.

I've always run my car on Shell V-Power derv and cleaned the EGR valve every 6k after the 1st build. But the engine still suffered from the head gasket issue. The T-180 is a lovely car to drive but it really is getting to the point where I just want to get rid and go back the Audi and there awful customer service!... Time will tell once the testing kit comes and the results are in.

I'm just hoping that I'm wrong and the white marks on the engine cover is all in my mind!!!

when you say you've had 2 engines do you mean you've had the same one repaired twice or you've actually had the 3/4 engine replacment twice

Nope! 2 new engines fitted not repaires... ie the dealer had a new cyclinder block/pistons ect and built the engine at the dealer. Now the engines are shipped over from Japan.

[Mistermena]

I am reading it as two repairs myself, which quite honestly is shutting the barn door after the bird's flown out of the bush looking for spilt milk to cry over. This dealer is chain puller of the first order, and as mentioned by Anchorman, it is possible that somebody not really well qualified is rebuilding a very complex piece of engineering. I trust that regular worthwhile contributors like Ormi take no offence, but if ma best mate was a Toyota Tech, I would still be insisting on a 3/4 engine.....this is heading down the same road as Taff (Mistermena), now renamed Chris Rea Avenue....

Big Kev

Its looking like "The road to Hell" to me Kev. Hoping that the tester should be here in a couple of days so I can get straight on it...

[Dale mill]

would mine of had the 3/4 replacment as it was only done in november. even the ones with the 3/4 enegine whats to say these will last?

[Big Kev]

would mine of had the 3/4 replacment as it was only done in november. even the ones with the 3/4 enegine whats to say these will last?

Dale....were you given paperwork / certification of a new engine number now pertaining to your car which must be re-registered at DVLC as far as I have learned on here.....? If you have a new engine number, yep....you have the 3/4 engine replacement I would guess....?

But your question BEGS me to ask....what The Friar did your dealer actually TELL you he was going to do to your car....? Was he being delightfully / deliberately vague? What does it say on the paperwork you left with?

Hopefully the "vested interest" I have in replies and postings on this subject never becomes particularly pertinent, but believe me....if somebody is gonnae do such major work to my car, I will be aware of his intent and modus operandi well in advance...!!!

Big Kev