Charliefarlies Guide To The Toyota 2Ad Diesel Engine And Its Issues.

[Prince_209]

Thanks for the reply. What I was trying to asking was, does this count as more proof that my engine has this issue and therefore should I mention it to the dealer? Or should I just clear the code before I show them the car next? Thanks.

[Davrav]

I would leave the code and, also, not clean the EGR - it's all evidence............

[Big Kev]

I would leave the code and, also, not clean the EGR - it's all evidence............

Aye....but a clean EGR will not affect the actual oil consumption test......? It is either burning the stuff or not....? Me.....? Let the dealer clean it........

[anchorman]

Never clear a code if you are trying to to make a warranty claim. The codes will just lie in the memory out of the way.

[CharlieFarlie]

Thanks for the reply Charlie, I'm not sure how I can find out what servicing was done though, unless I contact each and every place it's been serviced and ask them for a full list of what exactly they did.

Another update. I started my car this evening after work and the engine management light came on. I plugged in the code reader when I got home and it gave the code "P0400 - EGP Flow Malfunction". I need to take the car back to Toyota to check the oil again, just wondering whether I should tell them about this code as well whilst I'm there, as from the first post this looks like an issue that's also linked to the engine issue? Thanks.

Not sure how to answer other than you must have proof of the car having been serviced..

I agree with the above do not clear stored codes and I would personally not clean or even touch the EGR valve..

[RAVOilburner]

As a new member I have just come across this very interesting thread and wonder if it could possibly be connected to a problem that has cropped up with the Mrs' RAV4 T180. A couple of days ago the CES/VSC/4WD lights started flashing and it went into limp mode.

I've read the fault code, there's one fault identified which is "P2002 Diesel Particulate Filter Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 1)".

The car has covered 84k miles and never shown any faults previously since we've had it.

This is the first Toyota we've owned and I'm more familiar with Mercs. I was not aware of the potential serious problems that seem to be associated with this engine. Do the more knowledgeable members on here think this problem could be associated with the extended warranty engine replacement issue?

I have spoken with the dealership and the car will be looked at later this week but the comment from them was "It'll be the DPF that is clogged and will need replacing at a cost of approx.£1500, they normally need replacing at that mileage."

Is this true? I don't see many references to this on the forum as being the norm.

I don't want to go ahead with the repair if the real reason the DPF is clogged is the carbon build up problem that seems to be prevalent with this engine. Also the car will be 7 years old in June which I know will be the deadline for the extended warranty.

Any help would be gratefully received.

[Big Kev]

Dead easy, Steve.......insist NICELY that they do the oil consumption test. Going by your geographics, your local dealer may well be Lindop Toyota.....any dealings I have had thus far with them have been fine. Welcome t'forum also too.

Big Kev

[sonixtorm]

I've read the fault code, there's one fault identified which is "P2002 Diesel Particulate Filter Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 1)".

I have spoken with the dealership and the car will be looked at later this week but the comment from them was "It'll be the DPF that is clogged and will need replacing at a cost of approx.£1500, they normally need replacing at that mileage."

Is this true? I don't see many references to this on the forum as being the norm.

P2002 can mean a new DPF, but can equally be caused by a blocked EGR valve or clogged pipework. The dealership will have a full procedure for diagnosing this code and probably should have run through it before jumping to the worst case scenario.

As Kev says, worth getting the oil consumption checked though, as the clogging that P2002 indicates could be related to the engine issues.

[RAVOilburner]

Thanks for your replies guys.

Your comments echo my thoughts. I was a little concerned that the response from the dealer was immediately "Ah yes, code p2002 that will be your dpf that needs replacing at £1500" rather than "we need go through a logical fault finding process to determine the cause.". Perhaps I was just talking to the wrong person, I have downloaded the tech guide on here that shows the diagnostic steps.that should be carried out.

Does anyone have experience of the DPF becoming clogged at 84k miles?

I also have read the "AD Engine Out of Warranty Guidelines (0730J)"

"For all other out of warranty conditions related to AD engine problems, where the customer complaint

can be directly linked to a “carbon clogging” concern, i.e. EGR Valve, DPNR, 5th Injector, EGR Cooler,

blocked manifold, etc., we would accept this as being linked to an oil consumption condition."

Wouldn't a blocked DPF or EGR meet these criteria?

The car will be going into Lindops, as Kev identified, and I would say previous dealings with them have been excellent, in fact so much so that I even quoted their customer service to my local Merc dealership and Merc UK as something they should aspire to. . In my experience Toyota Customer Service leaves Merc standing, so hopefully Lindops will sort this out correctly.

Have found this forum excellent by the way, with a wealth of knowledgeable and experienced contributors and tech info.

[CharlieFarlie]

Get the oil consumption checks done ASAP.. If you car has the usual issues Toyota will replace the DPF IF it tshat is they replace the engine....

There has been much discussion over statistics related to this engine issue an I have absolutely NO intention of opening that can of worms again except to say that ther can be little doubt that of all cars affected and thier respected groupings the T180 comes up time and time again...

Lindop are as said above excellent so get it checked ASAP and all the best with it !!

[RAVOilburner]

Will the fault have to be rectified first (ie new DPF) before the oil consumption test is carried out since the car is in limp mode?

[anchorman]

The DPFs (a bit more complicated than that) do become clogged on early models, I think we have a couple struggling at the moment and it can be treated but your first move has to be as indicated above.

[RAVOilburner]

Hi Don,

Thanks for your reply. What is the treatment for a clogged DPF?

[anchorman]

It has to be removed and subjected to a chemical bath. It costs about £300 all in at a Toyota dealer.

[RAVOilburner]

Ah I see, so presumably it's a bit of a gamble then. £300 to try and clean it but if unsuccessful will then need the £1500 replacement. Another factor that I've also thought about and may be connected is that in the 12 months we've had the vehicle average fuel economy has been between 27-31mpg. Don't know if that's relevant.

[anchorman]

That comes with 177bhp and the D-CAT system.

[CharlieFarlie]

Ah I see, so presumably it's a bit of a gamble then. £300 to try and clean it but if unsuccessful will then need the £1500 replacement. Another factor that I've also thought about and may be connected is that in the 12 months we've had the vehicle average fuel economy has been between 27-31mpg. Don't know if that's relevant.

I say this with respect..... Mate read the opening page or three and you will see that heavy fuel consumption is indeed a pointer and a factor but not one Toyota will take into consideration I feel as driving styles could easily be put to blame..

[Big Kev]

Steve,

Their ploy seems to be working.....they have cleverly put you on the defensive by a mere telephonic diagnosis, so you doubt that the fault could possibly not be Toyota's.....it bloody well is......high fuel consumption (actually NOT that bad...).and a blocked DPF almost certainly due to an oil burning problem, still to be proved by your asking firmly that they instigate the oil consumption test. Have you looked inside your EGR valve.....? I bet it too is bowfin'........do not clean it !!!!

Should the car remain in limp mode, they must at least offer to help you reinstate some semblance of normal runfulness, or obviously the oil usage test is, well.......used in ice hockey and Charlie's trolley jacks.

I have said this to two or three other members and it came to fruition.....H.N.E.........Happy New Engine mate.......

Phil O'Sophical.

[sonixtorm]

Does anyone have experience of the DPF becoming clogged at 84k miles?

Had P2002 twice during ownership. The code in itself is just saying that there is not enough pressure after the CAT, which can be caused by a poorly functioning EGR valve (the ECU thinks the EGR is closed and therefore won't make allowances if in fact it's not closing properly) or blocked pipework running to the Differential Pressure Sensor that actually has the job of reading the information and feeding it to the ECU. It can also be a clogged CAT of course.

As has been mentioned by others, any signs of clogging (be it EGR, pipework or the CAT itself) could indicate that your engine is either starting, or some way down the path, towards more serious problems. Toyota will look for oil consumption or a blown head gasket as the only valid reasons for replacing it, from what I have read.

[RAVOilburner]

Hi Kev/Nial,

Thanks for your constructive comments. I just wanted to have the benefit of the experience of people like yourselves, who have come up against issues like this previously, before I possibly have to embark upon a battle.

This is a whole new experience for me having not owned a Toyota before, but equally I've never owned a vehicle before with such alleged well known and documented design problems that may lead to a total engine failure or at best a £1500 maintenance item every 7 years.

I will reserve any further comment until the dealer has had the opportunity, in fairness, to investigate the problem. I will let you know the outcome.

[voyager t180]

Ah I see, so presumably it's a bit of a gamble then. £300 to try and clean it but if unsuccessful will then need the £1500 replacement. Another factor that I've also thought about and may be connected is that in the 12 months we've had the vehicle average fuel economy has been between 27-31mpg. Don't know if that's relevant.

From what our experts on here say..27-31 mpg with 'normal' driving style is about right for the T180.

I've just bought one on 63k and mines the same around town ,but it does improve dramatically to 38-40ish on the M'way.

But I was expecting better.

If yours passes the oil test,then maybe like me you'll just have to accept the 180 isnt a Prius.

Next stop,, lindop tuning kit.

Wondered if anyone has any feedback on having their DPF chemically cleaned?

Keep us posted on how you get on.

[Stevehipkiss]

All fuels are not the same, I just had 2 injectors refurbed at a Denso specialist on a vauxhall v6 cdti at a cost of £500 !!! he was fantastic in all fairness gave me a tour of his workshops and spent about an hour showing me what he and his fandango top spec machines did...he recommended staying away from supermarket fuels and to only use premium brands...the cheap supermarket fuels do not contain enough lubricants and cleaners, using aftermarket cleaners can also damage your injectors through the electrical connectors/wires being coated and turning brittle....

[Big Kev]

All fuels are not the same, I just had 2 injectors refurbed at a Denso specialist on a vauxhall v6 cdti at a cost of £500 !!! he was fantastic in all fairness gave me a tour of his workshops and spent about an hour showing me what he and his fandango top spec machines did...he recommended staying away from supermarket fuels and to only use premium brands...the cheap supermarket fuels do not contain enough lubricants and cleaners, using aftermarket cleaners can also damage your injectors through the electrical connectors/wires being coated and turning brittle....

Really interesting that......where in the fuel system would an additive come into direct contact with connectors and wires?

Big Kev.

[Stevehipkiss]

Can't remember exactly, think they are within the top body of the injectors, the parts he showed me were split from the injectors..they gotta be there somewhere!! its where the signal gets sent to to control the internal fluctuator capacitator globule that drives the ball bearings a thousand times a second !!!!!

[Big Kev]

Can't remember exactly, think they are within the top body of the injectors, the parts he showed me were split from the injectors..they gotta be there somewhere!! its where the signal gets sent to to control the internal fluctuator capacitator globule that drives the ball bearings a thousand times a second !!!!!

OK......that explains it.....nae more additives for me then if it can affect ma ball bearings......