Charliefarlies Guide To The Toyota 2Ad Diesel Engine And Its Issues.

[firemac]

Apart from old A Series engines, my experience with chain driven camshafts is that they behave perfectly unless the oil is left too long. The same would apply to a BMW. It is why I am wary of these very long service intervals. I think they can go up to 20 or 30k depending on how they are driven. As my Scottish mate would say - pish. Our Japanese friends have it right - 10k or 12 months, old fashioned or not.

I agree completely that regular oil & filter changes are essential. The extended service periods are partly due to the improvements in oils (synthetics, etc) and competition forcing manufacturers to improve build quality but mainly they are driven by the poularity of vehicle leasing, both corporate & private, but mainly corporate for company fleets. Extended servicing means reduced running costs (most leases come with muti-year service deals attached) which is great for the first owner but builds up all sorts of potential problems for anyone buying the car after the initial warranty has run out. Once upon a time high mileage ex-company cars were considered good used buys owing to the fact that they were maintained to good standards usually in the manufacturer's dealer network. That isn't necessarily so anymore.

My last co car was a BMW 5-series diesel which was a brilliant car but, at 13K miles, the service indicator said that the next (the first) service wasn't due until 25K miles. Admittedly the car was mainly doing long commutes (200 miles per day at least) but I can't imagine that the oil would have been up to much by then. Fortunately I never had to worry as I got rid of the car before it got to that mileage.

[Plutus]

Mercedes have scrapped the variable service and it is now 15k or 1 year whichever comes first.

[bigvern10]

The original issue(s) discussed in the first post. Does this affect both the 136 bhp and the 150 bhp 2AD engines?

[Davrav]

Not the 150 bhp engines Vern

[blackcts]

As far as I am aware ALL AD engines can develop this fault apart from the newer generation post 2010 2.2 150s.

[Parts-King]

No newer 150 BHP engines suffer this as far as I'm concerned

Kingo

[Phil_1985]

2007 Auris 2.2 180 70,000 miles

Well another to add to the list - mine was consuming oil at a rather alarming rate!

New 3/4 engine done over three days at my local dealer. Excellent service as usual from them!

Got my new engine number to inform the dvla, shame the receipt I got doesn't detail the work done e.g, turbo gaskets replaced/new coolant (or reused coolant) etc!

[Diesel1]

2007 Auris 2.2 180 70,000 miles

Well another to add to the list - mine was consuming oil at a rather alarming rate!

New 3/4 engine done over three days at my local dealer. Excellent service as usual from them!

Got my new engine number to inform the dvla, shame the receipt I got doesn't detail the work done e.g, turbo gaskets replaced/new coolant (or reused coolant) etc!

I too was only given a peice of paper with the new engine number! It isn't really good enough. As you say it would be better to have a record of exactly what is new and what has been reused.

Simon.

[surfdood1969]

Hello I have a 2006 Rav4 XT4 2.2d-4d. All has been fine until Nov 2012. It has only 57K on clock. MPG has dropped and required the odd oil top up when the light came on. Performance was sluggish, we assumed a service was required. About 3 weeks later it started smoking on acceleration which got thicker over a short period of time. Took it to Toyota - Ron Brooks Mansfield who determined that it was the injectors. They initially advised trying a cleaner however this did not work and then in Dec 2012 one of the injector seals went, lost al power so it hobbled to the garage. We were quoted over £2K to sort, job came out at £2K eventually. I asked if there was anything Toyota could do. Submitted service history - 75% with dealership others with garage scheme garages. Vehicle has been cared for - it cost us a small fortune to buy!! Evidently carbon clogging was a caused by the injectors failing which no doubt would have built up in the engine in other areas. Service manager came back to me saying there is nothing Toyota can do as we were outside the warranty period however in the meantime he managed to get the injectors at cost saving me few hundred ££. Mmm my heckles were raised however desperate for the car back, so I refinanced the vehicle. Injectors fitted and full service to ensure nothing else like this would happen again. All was fine, except the sudden noise form the rear suspension that was never there before. We had only done 2K miles when suddenly on Aug 14th 2013 the engine catastrophically failed with an onslaught of loud tapping. Toyota same dealership have the vehicle and stated it like the pistons. They quoted 10hrs labour for an investigative search to confirm then if it is pistons 2 options - £3k to replace them or £4300 to replace engine. Remember this is a 2006 reg with only 57k miles?? So here I am having to take another £3K loan out for the next job, so that's nearly £7K in the space of 5 months for a reliable brand?? Naturally we have investigated this and still are before Ron Brooks get to touch this vehicle. I have now read this warrant extension and understand that this may have been an option for the first injector issue. There is always cause and effect with engine failures and the questions has to be asked what caused the injectors to fail in a young engine, did this go on to cause the final blow? My investigation which may involve legal advice will be around this. If I find that Toyota could / should have maybe replaced the pistons and other parts due to probable carbon clogging then its going to get messy. Recompense for both jobs, loan, interests and damages. Whether I buy another Rav4 or any Toyota product is in the balance due to this horrendous mess. Will keep you updated, but this is war!! Any thoughts or advice will be welcomed.

[Uncle Buck]

On the face of it, this is a disgusting state of affairs. I'm shocked that a relatively low mileage car with a full service history has had such an expensive repair & now needs a replacement engine. I'm hesitant to damn those concerned as I obviously don't know all the details of the case, but it certainly doesn't sound comforting to others or fair to you the owner.

The bills you have been quoted for would be enough to bankrupt some people & that is utterly frightening.

The only thing I can mention in the car's defence is that you might not have been keeping a regular enough check on the oil dipstick level. The oil level should never be that low that the light comes on - unless it's had a sudden failure. Just being devil's advocate ......

[sonixtorm]

The only thing I can mention in the car's defence is that you might not have been keeping a regular enough check on the oil dipstick level. The oil level should never be that low that the light comes on - unless it's had a sudden failure. Just being devil's advocate ......

I'm pretty sure the oil light is a level sensor on the Rav, rather than a pressure sensor, so not as catastrophic as it would be on a lot of cars. Maybe a premonition on the part of Toyota? ;)

[voyager t180]

I could be wrong,but if the carbon clogging engine issue was reported and recorded with the dealer in Dec 2012 then at that time you were still within the 7yr engine warranty period and even a year on the original complaint still stands IMO.

Why your dealer didn't just fit a new 3/4 engine as many many others have I can't understand,after all the cost doesn't come out of the dealerships pocket.

It sounds a real mess and you have my sympathy.

Trying to sort it out after the event in court will be difficult and time consuming.

Really hope you get some recompense,you've had a raw deal and from your version of the facts they should be ashamed of themselves.

[Big Kev]

Hello I have a 2006 Rav4 XT4 2.2d-4d. All has been fine until Nov 2012. It has only 57K on clock. MPG has dropped and required the odd oil top up when the light came on. Performance was sluggish, we assumed a service was required. About 3 weeks later it started smoking on acceleration which got thicker over a short period of time. Took it to Toyota - Ron Brooks Mansfield who determined that it was the injectors. They initially advised trying a cleaner however this did not work and then in Dec 2012 one of the injector seals went, lost al power so it hobbled to the garage. We were quoted over £2K to sort, job came out at £2K eventually. I asked if there was anything Toyota could do. Submitted service history - 75% with dealership others with garage scheme garages. Vehicle has been cared for - it cost us a small fortune to buy!! Evidently carbon clogging was a caused by the injectors failing which no doubt would have built up in the engine in other areas. Service manager came back to me saying there is nothing Toyota can do as we were outside the warranty period however in the meantime he managed to get the injectors at cost saving me few hundred ££. Mmm my heckles were raised however desperate for the car back, so I refinanced the vehicle. Injectors fitted and full service to ensure nothing else like this would happen again. All was fine, except the sudden noise form the rear suspension that was never there before. We had only done 2K miles when suddenly on Aug 14th 2013 the engine catastrophically failed with an onslaught of loud tapping. Toyota same dealership have the vehicle and stated it like the pistons. They quoted 10hrs labour for an investigative search to confirm then if it is pistons 2 options - £3k to replace them or £4300 to replace engine. Remember this is a 2006 reg with only 57k miles?? So here I am having to take another £3K loan out for the next job, so that's nearly £7K in the space of 5 months for a reliable brand?? Naturally we have investigated this and still are before Ron Brooks get to touch this vehicle. I have now read this warrant extension and understand that this may have been an option for the first injector issue. There is always cause and effect with engine failures and the questions has to be asked what caused the injectors to fail in a young engine, did this go on to cause the final blow? My investigation which may involve legal advice will be around this. If I find that Toyota could / should have maybe replaced the pistons and other parts due to probable carbon clogging then its going to get messy. Recompense for both jobs, loan, interests and damages. Whether I buy another Rav4 or any Toyota product is in the balance due to this horrendous mess. Will keep you updated, but this is war!! Any thoughts or advice will be welcomed.

Simon......go on to Rav4 general forum where I have started new post based on yours. Royally humped you have been, but keep the faith......there are folks on here who can and will help.

Big Kev

[surfdood1969]

Yes the oil light was a top up, we checked the level two or three times weekly and it must of been a minor drop to trigger the sensor. The car has no defence in this or should I say the people who built it. No doubt it will have a remanufactured engine in it shortly so lets hope that does not fail as well. One reason for Piston failure due to burning according to my research is dirty injectors running lean, this may have happened on the run up to the injectors failing or a failing in the settings after the new ones were fitted...I believe the two issues are connected. Working on this at present. Trying to find out what the latest warranty bulletin for Dec 2012 JAN 2013 says about such things.

[surfdood1969]

Big Kev, thanks I will look. I am pulling the vehicle out of the dealership to another to research. I am speaking with a solicitor on Monday. I will not let this go. I have contacted Watchdog as well. I would be wrong to say that I am distraught, its been a tough year for other matters, this is nearly the final straw.......

[Big Kev]

Big Kev, thanks I will look. I am pulling the vehicle out of the dealership to another to research. I am speaking with a solicitor on Monday. I will not let this go. I have contacted Watchdog as well. I would be wrong to say that I am distraught, its been a tough year for other matters, this is nearly the final straw.......

I stress again, Simon.......call off the dogs for two weeks or so......there are people on here much more qualified than me (I?) will read this when their drugs wear off (12 year old wans in the main.....) and advise accordingfully.....trust me. As for yer dealer.....? May an electrical short, whilst vacant, be upon him..........As for yer lawyer, really DO call him off.....his pockets are already lined sufficiently.......

[surfdood1969]

Noted, legal advice is free - perk of career, but will hang fire. The vehicle has to be repaired regardless as is the family car.

[MrSpongeHead]

Hi folks, I think my November 07 2.2 Verso SR may be losing some coolant. When I purchased the car in June of 2012 I took it back to the dealer within a week as I noticed the coolant was on the L mark, they topped it up, then it was topped up again at its service in March, and I've topped it up with about half a litre since, I've just noticed it seems to be dropping again, does this sound abnormal or would you expect to top it up every so often?? I've only done about 6000 miles in it since I've had it. It's booked in at my local Toyota garage but the guy behind the desk said the warranty is 6 years not 7 so I only have a couple of months left if it did have a problem, I didn't see any posts here saying that Toyota had changed their extended warranty period.

Sorry to go on a bit lol.

Cheers,

Steven.

[Parts-King]

It has not changed, still as per page one of this thread

These guidelines cover vehicles up to 7 years old and 111,846 miles (180,000 km), whichever the sooner. This is conditional on there being a retail customer complaint and the vehicle having been reasonably maintained".

Kingo

[MrSpongeHead]

Cheers Kingo, thought so. Does that sound like excessive coolant use?

[CharlieFarlie]

Cheers Kingo, thought so. Does that sound like excessive coolant use?

There is no given measure for coolant loss.. Oil has that given measure as posted above but coolant loss is not measured.. It would very definitely be worth getting your coolant checked for gasses that would be present IF your head gasket is either going or gone..

My advice would be to get this done without delay.. There are tools that can be connected to the header or expansion tank that will "sniff out" the gasses..

[battleaxe]

take the cap of the header tank, piece of tube off spill pipe into clear bottle fllled with water, start engine, hand over header tank look for bubbles, will give a clue if head gasket is gone.

B-A

[blackcts]

Battleaxe is correct!!!

[MrSpongeHead]

So results are in, apparently there is a leak at the water pump, they said its quite a biggish job (about 7 and a half hours) to replace and have quoted about £730.

I'm waiting to speak to the owner of the dealership to see if he'll foot the bill under the Sales of Goods Act, as there was obviously something amiss when I bought the car, plus his guys couldn't have done a pre-delivery check as they would have noticed the low coolant at the time.

Cheers for your help guys.

[Parts-King]

Not a lot of point in mentioning the SOGA at this stage, it is 15 months on since you bought the car. It might well have required topping up after week 1 but you could not describe that as inherrantly faulty, or not conforming to contract as it is over 6 months old it would be up to YOU to prove it was inherrantly faulty or not conforming to contract. HOWEVER a politely worded letter, firm but polite pointing this out would be far better than going down the SOGA route, the dealer may well ask for a contribution and be prepared to say pay for the parts if they supply the labour. It is a big job but they would do it in less time me thinks!

I will say it again (I often do) and that is to get problems looked at ASAP if you have a problem. A problem within he first week of owning the car would be the garages problem. not yours. warranties last for their specific time period, say 12 or 24 months, NOT A DAY LONGER, it is no good going back (as in this case) saying "ive had this problem for 15 months", you have very few rights after this length of time, regardless of if you think there is a moral right. get problems sorted right away and ALWAYS inside the waranty period, even if it is a bit inconvenient at the time

Kingo