Charliefarlies Guide To The Toyota 2Ad Diesel Engine And Its Issues.

[MrSpongeHead]

As I understand it you have 6 years from time of purchase to make a complaint.

[firemac]

As I understand it you have 6 years from time of purchase to make a complaint.

I think that you may be referring to the statute of limitations which provides a deadline after which there is no liability for fault or crime. It allows one to bring an action but it doesn't give any assurance of award. It's most applicable to criminal and fiscal issues like tax liabilities, fraud, etc.

Kingo makes good points. If you pursued this through any of the SOGA's or their amendments there will always be the question of fair wear & tear not to mention any contributary negligence (i.e. if the vehicle was exhibiting problems since you bought it and you didn't pursue them with the selling dealer immediately but waited for over a year to take action).

IMHO reasonablesness wins out over aggresion & threats any day.

[Parts-King]

As I understand it you have 6 years from time of purchase to make a complaint.

No. It does not quite work like that. In fact, nothing like that at all

You have 0-6 months where you DO NOT have to prove goods do not conform to contract. You then have up to 6 YEARS (5 years in Scotland) to DEMAND DAMAGES for lack of conformity. Now this can be a very time consuming and costly game which YOU are responsible for paying. If you prove your case, you can demand damages to include your costs. Do you want to go down that route? I would advise against it. It is far better to go down the "ask nicely" route and turn the screw BEFORE threatening to go to court. Goods need to last a reasonable amount of time, it could be argued that 6 years is a reasonable amount of time for a water pump to last

PS I am no lawyer, but someone who manages a department and has a working knowledge of SOGA and Distance Selling Regs, please feel free to seek legal advice if you do not agree with my ramblings

Kingo

[firemac]

So results are in, apparently there is a leak at the water pump, they said its quite a biggish job (about 7 and a half hours) to replace and have quoted about £730.

I'm waiting to speak to the owner of the dealership to see if he'll foot the bill under the Sales of Goods Act, as there was obviously something amiss when I bought the car, plus his guys couldn't have done a pre-delivery check as they would have noticed the low coolant at the time.

Cheers for your help guys.

I'm often surprised at how often water pumps and RAV's come up as issues. I had one replaced and lost count of how many services I've had where Mr.T has flagged up a weeping water pump - fortunately it only became a problem once. What is it with RAV's & water pumps?

The other thing is the cost - over £700 to replace!! I don't quibble with the tecnical facts of the work needed to do the job, it costs what it costs given the complexity of the work. But why has a company with the experience & technical history of Toyota designed the engine layout in such a way that a poxy water pump can't be replaced without taking a second mortgage on your house?? It seems beyond stupid.

I can only assume that the production engineers won the argument over the designers.Clearly this layout makes for cheaper manufacturing and to hell with the dealers & customers.

[Parts-King]

I don't think any manufacturer thinks about that sort of repair cost Jim, Toyota are not alone with that one, I could reel off dozens of jobs that take a huge amount of time to repair from all sorts of marques! With more and more equipment as standard, pipework and electrics have to go somewhere. Clearly it would help everyone from an aftersales point of view to have these things easy to get at..........progress eh?

Kingo

[uniquestar]

The problem with the Water Pump, is that Toyota say the engine has to come out for it to be done, which is why the large cost. If you look back through some previous threads then you will see that it is possible for the pump to be done by dropping & supporting the engine, rather than removing it, but if you find a garage willing, it will still be around the £400-500 mark.

My garage did this for me, they had not attempted something like it before, but the bill came in at around £450 including parts & VAT.

It does seem that the Water Pump is often blamed, as I believe that it does weep a small amount anyway, so there is always going to be a small trace of water around the pump. My eventual problem was the head gasket issue, and Toyota have since replaced my engine.

On my Rav (not saying that this will be the same for yours), I was not losing any coolant on short journeys, only longer ones or where I had really pushed the car, and there was evidence of water leaking from the nozzle near the cap of the header tank.

[Parts-King]

It would probably be a good idea to mention, in writing, your concerns over the engine, to the Dealer Principle. POST it in the traditional way, recorded delivery. Mention the head gasket and heavy oil consumption issues with this engine, at least you then have it documented should it be needed in future

Kingo

[MrSpongeHead]

Oops, sorry guys, looks like I opened up a big can of worms lol, that wasn't my intent. Anyway I have written politely but firmly to the dealership as was suggested.

We shall see what happens. :)

[anchorman]

Buy the pump off Kingo and take it around the local garage. It will take a couple of hours tops with the engine IN.

[maxir]

Hi,

I've just joined the Toyota Owners Club, it seems I am not alone in engine problems...and need some advice if anyone would be kind enough to help.

Advance apologies for the long post

The History of my 06 Rav4 T180.

Purchased 2010 -Full Toyota Service History 50K on the clock

Serviced by Toyota in Yeovil

Several episodes of Rough running /EGR Valve cleaned multiple times

EGR valve replaced under warranty / goodwill in late 2010 Toyota Yeovil

Limp mode /fault code lead to the engine being replaced under extended warranty in Sept 2011 at 92k by Toyota Yeovil.

3/4 engine, 1 injector( as 1 was seized in the block) 2 Glow Plugs (also seized), DPF and Fuel Filter were replaced by MrT.

I also paid to replace the clutch as it was 60% worn and the engine was out.

Since then:

I have mostly been fuelling at BP, Shell, Texaco etc. with standard Diesel

2 x intermediate Services by Toyota @ 109k and 130k

+Service and works then conducted by a pretty decent independent garage:

136k - Lack of power below 2000RPM and flat spots- Full system diagnostics + strip and clean EGR Valve (sooted up)+ replaced fuel filter

146k - Oil and filter service + Stripped and cleaned EGR (sooted up)

151k - Oil and Filter service

158k - Following Limp Mode and EGR Fault code from diagnostics-Cleared fault code -Oil and Filter service + Stripped and cleaned EGR+ Cleaned intake manifold (both sooted up)

The car is running but still has lack of power below 2000RPM, It pulls very well after that, the Turbo / Injectors/ fuel pump / DPF have all been checked and are all OK.

The conclusion now is to replace the EGR valve in a day or so and see what happens.........

Any other advice would be welcomed......... with regard to:

1. maintenance /repair /fuel going forward.

2. How long (if any) a guarantee Toyota give to their reconditioned engines and under what conditions.

Cheers

Max

[CharlieFarlie]

The engine comes with the standard one year warranty... It that gas expired and the car is over seven years then you are without any warranty back up.. You will be outside the extended warranty anyway on mileage..

You don't say if the replacement engine Is burning oil ???

[maxir]

Thanks Charlie, It looks like I'm now the chief financer..........a scary prospect given the fact that the new engines still have problems.

I'm using Millers Oil (Low Ash) Trident Longlife advanced fully synthetic 5w 30

The engineer at my garage noted that 1.5 litres was burnt between 146k and 151k, is 300ml per 1000 miles considered high?

Cheers

Max

[Devon Aygo]

Thanks Charlie, It looks like I'm now the chief financer..........a scary prospect given the fact that the new engines still have problems.

I'm using Millers Oil (Low Ash) Trident Longlife advanced fully synthetic 5w 30

The engineer at my garage noted that 1.5 litres was burnt between 146k and 151k, is 300ml per 1000 miles considered high?

Cheers

Max

Oil usage has to be higher than 0.5lt/621miles to be in excess of the design specifications. So your consumption is well within spec.

When your Rav was last cleaned of soot was it dry soot or was it wet and gooey like molasses?

[CharlieFarlie]

Agree with Devon's comment above regarding that you are within spec on oil consumption.. I'm not sure if it is still a bummer with it burning oil and await comments from those with a little more knowledge on that specific point..

Lee when you mention soot I'm assuming you mean in the EGR ?

[blackcts]

What spec of millers trident are you using buddy? It should be C2 spec. I'm sure that Millers is 110% fine, but it's Millers budget oil - maybe try using 5w30 Mobil 1 on next oil change and see if there's any difference

[Uncle Buck]

I'm not surprised that the engine's losing oil - fully synthetic in such a high mileage engine is the wrong choice I'm afraid. It's just too slippy. There's probably more oil disappearing down the exhaust than in the engine. Try using a good spec semi-synthetic & I'm sure the consumption will be less. I'm not saying it will end your woes, just that it will almost definitely reduce oil consumption.

[blackcts]

Respectfully - I don't agree with you uncle buck - as far as I know there isn't a low ash (C2) grade semi synthetic and as he's already having problems with carbon clogging, putting in a normal semi synthetic oil would cause havoc and I doubt oil consumption would increase

[Uncle Buck]

I said it would decrease - not increase. There are obviously underlying problems here, but the high mileage is why oil manufacturers make specific grades for those cars. Fully synthetic just slips past the bores & goes out the tail pipe because of the engine's wear & tear. I know this from research & a friend of mine who rallies high performance cars from the 80's. He also runs a garage with very good feedback.

But we're all entitled to our opinions, so guess ours will have to differ :)

[Parts-King]

The correct grade in this engine is 0W 30 C2 low ash

Kingo

[blackcts]

Sorry I meant decrease - Kingo is correct 0w30 or 5w30 C2 oil is the correct stuff - I don't understand what you mean by semi synthetic burning quicker - if an oil is the same weight say 5w30 - I couldn't see it making a difference if it's semi or fully. I hope you use low ash oil in that nice SR180 of yours!

[Uncle Buck]

Mine is serviced at the local Toyota dealer, so I certainly hope so too ! :)

[maxir]

Thanks for the info on the oil.

Has Toyota changed their recommended oil for the engine ?

In the 2 services I had done after a new engine the Toyota Garage put in "TGMO 5W30 Premium Fuel Efficient Engine oil".

As I am out of warranty I have now switched to an independent garage (who use Millers oil)

This is what Millers Recommend for the T180 Engine

Capacity : Filter Capacity 0,4 litre : Lube Capacity 5,9 litre Use : Normal Intervals : Change 15000 km / 12 months Products : Millers XF Longlife C2 5w30 (Code 6229) : Millers XF Longlife C3 5w30 (Code 6230) : Millers Trident Longlife 5w30 (Code 5999) Use : Severe Intervals : Change 7500 km / 6 months Products : Millers XF Longlife C2 5w30 (Code 6229) : Millers XF Longlife C3 5w30 (Code 6230) : Millers Trident Longlife 5w30 (Code 5999) Use : Flexible (max) Intervals : Change 30000 km / 24 months Products : Millers XF Longlife C2 5w30 (Code 6229) : Millers XF Longlife C3 5w30 (Code 6230)

: Millers Trident Longlife 5w30 (Code 5999)

If C2 means low ash? I recon this is what I will go for next time and change every 5k as the car is doing 40k per year (severe use)

I guess low ash oil may reduce the amount of carbon deposits? Does anyone think that the EGR valves are prone to clogging due to the engine burning oil?

Cheers

Max

[Parts-King]

Has Toyota changed their recommended oil for the engine ?

No. 0w 30 is put in at the factory and is the prefered service fill, but you can use 5w 30 PFE as a service fill too

Kingo

[blackcts]

Unless I'm reading that wrong D-CAT is 5w30 PFE? Either way it shouldn't matter as long as it's C2 spec

[Parts-King]

No, its 0w30 fill at the factory, 0w 30 prefered fill at service OR 5w 30 PFE as an alternative

I would stick to the 0w 30, it is C2 low ash, at least the TGMO (Toyota Genuine Motor Oil) is that spec, I cannot vouch for other makes

Kingo