Charliefarlies Guide To The Toyota 2Ad Diesel Engine And Its Issues.

[maxir]

Hi,

I just got the Rav back from the garage, new Egr valve fitted, its has cured the lack of power below 2000 rpm and pulls very well.

Distilled from all the posts........The new engine maintenance regime will now be:

The best diesel I can lay my hands on

Oil (c2 5 w 30)and filter change every 5 k with an Egr clean out.

Air filter as required and fuel filter every 40 k or as required.

Any other additions would be very welcome.

Cheers

Max

[blackcts]

Sounds good - maybe try genuine Toyota PFE C2 5w30 and genuine filters? Oil brand shouldn't matter really, but genuine filters are worth the extra outlay IMO or blueprint at the least.

Here's another rev the life out of it once a week, I always run mine at 3,000 rpm over 50mph once a week for 10 miles or so if it's done loads of town journeys with several full throttle boosts of acceleration - helps keep the egr and dpf happy!

[surfdood1969]

_{Charlie, is there a copy of the 2012 version of this bulletin. The dealership made reference to it to defend themselves, as in was the EGR valve mentioned on the latest edition. Question for you if you took a vehicle to the garage and it was kicking out thick black smoke and the exhaust was sooted up would be fair to think that the engine would be also sooted up and that it would be reasonable to check the EGR valve and clean the engine of soot/carbon so that the engine does not fail in say 5000 miles. I sort of know the answer but seeking reassurance as the dealership n question seems to think otherwise?}

[anchorman]

I wouldn't worry about the exhaust being sooted up. Thick black smoke is likely to be down to the air filter being blocked, an inlet pipe failure (they sometimes suck flat) or the injectors u/s.

Don't keep us guessing - what is going on with yours?

[CharlieFarlie]

_{Charlie, is there a copy of the 2012 version of this bulletin. The dealership made reference to it to defend themselves, as in was the EGR valve mentioned on the latest edition. Question for you if you took a vehicle to the garage and it was kicking out thick black smoke and the exhaust was sooted up would be fair to think that the engine would be also sooted up and that it would be reasonable to check the EGR valve and clean the engine of soot/carbon so that the engine does not fail in say 5000 miles. I sort of know the answer but seeking reassurance as the dealership n question seems to think otherwise?}

Smoke or sooting up should surely be taken as a pointer ? Well one one of these engines surely ?

First things first as Don has said above the filters and pipework should be checked and then go straight to the EGR.. Im no mechanic but that would be the starting point on any car especially a diesel and 100% on a 2AD equipped car "

I don't have up to date information on bulletins on these or any other cars but I would suggest a visit to a completely different Toyota Dealer and ask there ? Sorry I cant help more but its likely only a Dealer will be able to tell you if there is such a bulletin and its content....

Simon you have my number give me a call again if you like..

[surfdood1969]

Charlie thanks will get in touch soon. I will PM you. Vehicle was stripped at another dealership and found the following: I have pics too which they took.

1. EGR Valve completely full of soot / carbon. It looks like an old fireplace.

2. Inlet Manifold covered in a really thick layer of solidified carbon, looks like the inside of a burnt out house.

3. The injectors that were replaced n January are covered in carbon and were way off in the settings as in under or over fuelling. They gave a range of 3.5 either way , these were plus 5 over or neg 4.5.

Its quite obvious that when they fitted the injectors in Jan they gave me vehicle back which was essentially a time bomb waiting to go off. It must of been full of carbon and soot, even though it was not kicking out of the exhaust anymore as it was compounded to the inners of the engine. End result is 5000 miles later the piston / piston rings are significantly carbonised causing the engine to seize. They refer to the events as misfortune - rubbish, cause and effect!!! Yet again I believe the vehicle was suffering from a carbon clogging issue involving the EGR, however Toyota will not accept a warranty claim even retrospectively. I moved the vehicle from the original dealership to where it is now who have been excellent. I will have to pay £3500 to £4000 for a reman engine in Oct and chase the money legally. I also believe that the issue concerning warranty bulletins being kept secret should be reviewed and that vehicle owners should be made aware at all times. A president needs setting! The battle continued

[Dyfs007]

Hi All. Really sorry to hear about the troubles you've had. And really sorry to post this question, but reading all this has just made me very scared in proceeding with the purchase of Rav 4 T180 that was first registered in September 2006, so I presume is just outside the 'goodwill warranty' ??? It has 80,000 on the clock with a full Toyota Service History. I have placed a £500 deposit otherwise having read this I would walkaway. Is there anything I can do to find out if any works on the vehicle have been done, or something on the vehicle is evident that a possible problem may arise. Im not a mechanic but will do my best to follow any technical terms.

I joined the club looking forward to owning the T180, but after this link feel petrified.

Thanks for any advice that can be provided

[surfdood1969]

They are great cars however I would consider an extended warranty, which you can get from various companies - about £250 plus a year. My experience seems quite rare and is a combination of head in the sand response to the problem. these vehicles don't just fall to bit or the owner have misfortune, there is cause and effect.

[voyager t180]

As Si said.

But just check an extended warranty would actually cover the engine going pop,I very much doubt that it would,unless you were prepared to pay a massive premium.

Also not all 2006-2009 Dcat engines have issues..it seems many do,but there are no difinate figures to my knowledge.

Mine on 65k 'seems'fine atm..just wish I had a crystal ball ;-)

If the one your after has had a replacement engine that should be on Toyota's vehicle history.

I'd look for a good post2009 model though.

[Devon Aygo]

Charlie thanks will get in touch soon. I will PM you. Vehicle was stripped at another dealership and found the following: I have pics too which they took.

1. EGR Valve completely full of soot / carbon. It looks like an old fireplace.

2. Inlet Manifold covered in a really thick layer of solidified carbon, looks like the inside of a burnt out house.

3. The injectors that were replaced n January are covered in carbon and were way off in the settings as in under or over fuelling. They gave a range of 3.5 either way , these were plus 5 over or neg 4.5.

Its quite obvious that when they fitted the injectors in Jan they gave me vehicle back which was essentially a time bomb waiting to go off. It must of been full of carbon and soot, even though it was not kicking out of the exhaust anymore as it was compounded to the inners of the engine. End result is 5000 miles later the piston / piston rings are significantly carbonised causing the engine to seize. They refer to the events as misfortune - rubbish, cause and effect!!! Yet again I believe the vehicle was suffering from a carbon clogging issue involving the EGR, however Toyota will not accept a warranty claim even retrospectively. I moved the vehicle from the original dealership to where it is now who have been excellent. I will have to pay £3500 to £4000 for a reman engine in Oct and chase the money legally. I also believe that the issue concerning warranty bulletins being kept secret should be reviewed and that vehicle owners should be made aware at all times. A president needs setting! The battle continued

Warranty bulletins are not kept secret Toyota has to comply with EU "block exemption" rules and make both technical and warranty bulletins available, they do so here: www.toyota-tech.eu they don't however have to offer it free of charge but you can buy access to the site and see everything a Toyota dealer can

[surfdood1969]

most helpful thanks. Might give the annual subscription a miss at £2400 however they do it by hourly subs also at £3:)

[CharlieFarlie]

Dyfs007 .. A dealer cannot hold onto a deposit .. If they have spent money on the car under your instruction or can justify costs like say body repairs that you have requested then they can hold onto some of it..

You should check with Toyota as it may have had its engine replaced already ....

If it has not then you have to decide if you can live with the risk that if it goes wrong the you could be faced with a bill like Simon above ..

A question you should ask yourself is can you afford a bill if between. 3 and. 4K if the worst was to happen ??

Sadly we are seeing quite a few more T180s just lately which underwrites my thoughts that getting that extra lump if power from what is a weak engine is taking its toll....

[Diesel1]

I am cocerned about my rebuilt, replacement engine as the mpg has, over 3 days, dropped from 44-46 to 36! I am definitely using the same driving style and covering the same roads with the same fuel. There was a hot engine smell around the car the same day that the mpg began falling. It has only done 2k miles since the rebuild and has been stood between Feb-May (Just Car Clinics!) and June-Aug (BMX accident causeing broken arm, wrist and busted knees!). I have checked the oil and it seems ok and the header tank still has the pink coolant in it.

Should I let Mr T have a look at it?

All the best,

Simon.

[Parts-King]

If it is under warranty yes you should. Too late once the warranty period is up

Kingo

[Dyfs007]

Hi Again. Thanks a lot for the info. just spoken to someone from serviceing in johnstones in Liverpool where vehicle has had all it's serviceing and he confirmed that the EGR valve and manifold ?? were replaced last year under warranty due to known problems and that was all Toyota UK instructed them to carry out. Does this sound right ?? Everything else I have read says more works should have been done under the warranty to rectify the problem. The works carried out from my understanding only prolong the problem arising at a point when the warranty period has expired ??

Your thoughts and experiences would be much appreciated Thanks Again

[Dyfs007]

Just realised something. It was first registered on the 30th September 2006 so still within warranty. What Should I Do Now ????? Thanks

[Parts-King]

It is not within warranty. It is within the goodwill period, just. Not being pedantic but worth making the point

Toyota will not just replace the engine, they will need evidence that the car is burning oil or shows signs of head gasket failure. That has to be done inside the goodwill period, so time is running out

We are of course assuming it has not had an engine, do you know that?

kingo

[big greg]

Hi all,

Great thread charlie i have read almost all of it lol. Bought my corolla verso t180 last year and love it.

over the winter i started getting engine management lights on and the traction control flickering on and off, found out it was the Battery thank god. 8 months later its killed another Battery which was under warranty .3 months later my wife had the same problems so i took the Battery out and went back to Halfords and they say the battery is fine!! i put the battery back in and its running fine grrrr.

I decided to bite the bullet and book it in to farmer and carlisle toyota in loughborough, they diagnosed a sooted up egr valve.

£240 later i get my car back which is running a lot better. Is the warranty still running and should they have told me about it? to be honest i have noticed it uses a lot of oil but i put it down to being a diesel as this is my first.

Love the car but they do sound rough as f%&k on tick over :)

[CharlieFarlie]

Hi Again. Thanks a lot for the info. just spoken to someone from serviceing in johnstones in Liverpool where vehicle has had all it's serviceing and he confirmed that the EGR valve and manifold ?? were replaced last year under warranty due to known problems and that was all Toyota UK instructed them to carry out. Does this sound right ?? Everything else I have read says more works should have been done under the warranty to rectify the problem. The works carried out from my understanding only prolong the problem arising at a point when the warranty period has expired ??

Your thoughts and experiences would be much appreciated Thanks Again

If the car has had an EGR and a manifold then there have been problems ! But if the engine has not been changed then walk fast...

Dealers in the past have papered over the cracks and missed the main issue.. This car is throwing off major warning signals...

The car is out of good will warranty or will be in a couple of days...............

Sorry pal but it is a huge risk...

[CharlieFarlie]

Perhaps I should rephrase that a bit. ...

A car that has had an EGR replaced should be treated with caution .. While it seems necessary to clean the EGRs it remains a pointer to things not being as they should..

The car in question has had to have its EGR changed nor cleaned so this must surely be taken as an indicator that things could and could being the word may not be quite right .

The big question and one that must be asked and answered is HAS THE ENGINE BEEN REPLACED.....

The T180 is a fantastic car but put simply . Buying one that has not had its engine replaced is a huge risk......

[big greg]

Hi charlie i did some investigating today and found out 2 things:

The customer service at inscape derby has got to be the worst ever.

And after 5 yes 5 phone calls they told me that the engine has been replaced in 2011. still not sure what to do as i think if it is clogging the egr valve up again it could be the same fault.

I suppose only time will tell.

[Diesel1]

Hi charlie i did some investigating today and found out 2 things:

The customer service at inscape derby has got to be the worst ever.

And after 5 yes 5 phone calls they told me that the engine has been replaced in 2011. still not sure what to do as i think if it is clogging the egr valve up again it could be the same fault.

I suppose only time will tell.

I had a replacement engine in May 2012 and by January this year and only 5,000 miles it needed rebuilding with all internal components replaced from pistons to valve seats! This was after I was assured that the replacement engine would resolve any problems. There seems to be a fundamental fault with this engine. I just hope the service manager who has dealt with me in the past is as understanding in January when the Verso goes for its next service, regardless of the mileage as that will be the year warranty time limit.

Simon.

[blackcts]

Hi charlie i did some investigating today and found out 2 things:

The customer service at inscape derby has got to be the worst ever.

And after 5 yes 5 phone calls they told me that the engine has been replaced in 2011. still not sure what to do as i think if it is clogging the egr valve up again it could be the same fault.

I suppose only time will tell.

I had a replacement engine in May 2012 and by January this year and only 5,000 miles it needed rebuilding with all internel components replaced from pistons to valve seats! This was after I was assured that the replacement engine would resolve any problems. There seems to be a fundamental fault with this engine. I just hope the service manager who has dealt with me in the past is as understanding in January when the Verso goes for its next service, regardless of the mileage as that will be the year warranty time limit.

Simon.

Why did it need rebuilding buddy?

[CharlieFarlie]

Hi charlie i did some investigating today and found out 2 things:

The customer service at inscape derby has got to be the worst ever.

And after 5 yes 5 phone calls they told me that the engine has been replaced in 2011. still not sure what to do as i think if it is clogging the egr valve up again it could be the same fault.

I suppose only time will tell.

I had a replacement engine in May 2012 and by January this year and only 5,000 miles it needed rebuilding with all internel components replaced from pistons to valve seats! This was after I was assured that the replacement engine would resolve any problems. There seems to be a fundamental fault with this engine. I just hope the service manager who has dealt with me in the past is as understanding in January when the Verso goes for its next service, regardless of the mileage as that will be the year warranty time limit.

Simon.

Toyota should not rebuild an engine ! This is not the way it should be done under the current policy.. It should have been replaced again !

[blackcts]

Must be fairly unlucky - the head tech at my dealer said he's never seen a modified 3/4 back and I think Kingo and Devon Aygo said the same!