Charliefarlies Guide To The Toyota 2Ad Diesel Engine And Its Issues.

[James..]

Hi all, I've just had a head gasket go, at 53000 miles on an 07 RAV. No advice from Toyota,and my dealer charged me 60 quid to identify the fault and then presented me with a bill for £2200 to rectify it, including another £120 item to identify the fault again. That alone means he's extremely unlikely to be getting any more business from me! Sure I feel like a mug for not asking here first what the classic symptoms were, and I would already be richer!

Following that, I did speak to a nice gent at an independent shop and they mentioned this warranty. So, it's with another dealer and we'll see what happens. I love this RAV but it is by far the most unreliable car I've owned, and that comes after ten years of Alfa Romeo ownership. It has already had over £1000 pounds of warranty work done, (£800 on the engine to fix an oil leak) in the three years I've had it. :-(

So, I guess I'm shafted though as I don't have any way of proving oil consumption because of the head gasket failure ... it's not like I can drive another 900 miles with the thing leaking (although I heard that some people do) is there any way of looking at the pistons to check the carbon deposit in there without a full disassembly? Otherwise this 'Goodwill' warranty might as well be useless as you've spent £1000 before you find out that in fact your head gasket blew up because it was made out of licorice, which means its not covered by Toyota anyway,...

[blackcts]

I totally feel your pain James, hopefully the next dealer will come up trumps! Truth is though, all cars have their problems regardless of make. It's pot luck really, you could have bought a VAG 2.0 TDi of the same age and ended up with oil pump failure and needing an engine or bought a BMW 2.0d and needing an engine due to swirl flaps....pick any make and you will find problems.

In my opinion it all comes down to modern diesels from any manufacturer being overly complicated. More than likely I'll be buying a hybrid or a petrol car next because modern diesels are a pure liability

[James..]

And I do indeed have a VAG 2.0 TDI engine on my other car with a dodgy oil pump but that doesn't cheese me off because the repair bill is more like £600 than £2200 .. secondhand cars cost money but you shouldn't have to suffer manufacturing faults of that magintitude so early in the life of a car.

I think I expected more from Toyota. I knew Toyota/Lexus diesels were dodgy when I bought the car, (thanks to this forum and from talking to other owners), but my RAC warranty expired before this latest failure. I guess the moral is to ALWAYS buy a Toyota extended warranty with any diesel engined Toyota to compensate for the unreliability and poor engineering, ( and trade it in as soon as you're over 30k miles on the clock.) .

Would gladly put my VW diesel in my RAV - it would be a great car - give me another 25% more power, better mpg, less vibration, and a shed load more torque. And less likely to blow up every 10K miles with a serious engine fault. Yes other manufacturers have issues, but I haven't personally experienced such unreliability in an engine before: . .

My local indie Toyota expert here services D4D engines in taxis and he says this is a common issue. Often the taxi drivers don't bother fixing it, just keep filling up the coolant every morning, and run it for another 20k miles :-) It's a thought, but I'll probably pop some porridge oats / egg nog in as well when my latest dealer comes back with 'sorry mate can't help you, that's Toyota for you'

[Uncle Buck]

Very disappointing to hear of another engine failure - they certainly haven't been winning fans with this issue. Although I actually like my SR180, I'm seriously thinking of selling it later on next year before the mileage goes past 70k. Not that that is a guarantee it will behave until then .........

I will almost definitely be buying a newer diesel with a warranty or a smaller petrol turbo. Once you've tasted big torque, it's hard to drop down to something that feels gutless !

[Diesel1]

I am still thinking my rebuilt, replaced optifit engine is beginning to suffer the carbon stamping/coking that the last two incarnations have already failed on. The service is due around March 2014 and that will be at 14 months (after the 12 month warranty expires) although the service manager told me that "everything would be ok and I didn't have to worry". My reply was "I know your word is worth its weight in gold!" I then said I would see him at the works xmas do!

My father has said he would sell the car on but I do like it and while Mr T is paying for the engine I cannot justify getting rid. If I was to buy another diesel I am thinking the Honda seems to be the latest bullet-proof engine, is that a good idea?????

Simon.

[blackcts]

I have a mate in the trade that supplies garages and he said that garages are filled with 2.0 TDi PD VAG cars needing engines. To be fair to Toyota they extended the warranty to 7yrs/112k miles for this issue, I truly hope you get your Rav sorted - they are generally reliable apart from the problem that Toyota have been more than generous with extending the warranty on these..VAG didn't step up to the mark like this with oil pump failure.

Speaking of VAG diesels, we have a 2.0 TDi CR VW that we paid a premium over the PD engined car on instruction from a mate that works for VW, he said that they are pretty reliable. My other mate in the trade said that fuel pump failures are starting to be a big problem on 2.0 TDi CR VAG cars - fuel pumps are breaking down and filling everything full of metal filings, at the minute a customer of his has a 09 new model A4 S-Line with this problem..big big money to sort..and true enough - google high pressure pump failure on CR TDi engines and it's a problem. Scary.

My point is IMO all modern diesels regardless of make give bother and are a fortune out of warranty.

[Diesel1]

I have a mate in the trade that supplies garages and he said that garages are filled with 2.0 TDi PD VAG cars needing engines. To be fair to Toyota they extended the warranty to 7yrs/112k miles for this issue,

My point is IMO all modern diesels regardless of make give bother and are a fortune out of warranty.

I have heard about PD engines being problematic and that you should go for non-PD engines if possible.

So Does anyone have a positive experience of the Honda diesel unit?

I never ever had a problem with the 2.3D Ford/Peugeot unit in the Sierra. It gave a constant 39 mpg whether toe to the floor or tickover in third up a 1 in 10 hill with a trailer on the towbar!

Simon.

[Uncle Buck]

The chain-cam 2.2 TD unit in the Civic is generally thought to be one of the most reliable in the trade. Probably the reason for this could be down to the fact they don't use a DPF.

[scone6]

Hello. I've just had this problem appear with my car in recent weeks. It's a 56 plate rav4 with 71k on clock. Took it to Toyota after it had broken down where I was told the car is out of the extended warranty and needed a new engine! I was given a price for a new engine which was £7766 which is quite excessive I managed to get that cost down to£4950 which is still quite excessive in my eyes. If anybody knows of any other options other than main dealer I would be massively appreciative :'(

[Len7]

Hi -really sorry to see you have this problem which comes up regularly on this forum

I saw your post over Xmas and thought you might have a response by now - it must be because of the holiday break because folk are usually swift to help.

Firstly correct diagnosis is v important - does your car have the symptoms detailed here?

Also there was a post by gjnorthall in which he suggested an option might be to go to a member of FER - Federation of engine re- manfacturers - I can't remember where though!

If you wanted you could send him a note directly

Hopefully you will get further responses shortly

[kencat]

Strange very quiet on here , hope it's just Xmass realy enjoy looking in most days , shame there's so many problems with this engine and it's not going 2 get better !

[UncleBob]

Hi -really sorry to see you have this problem which comes up regularly on this forum

I saw your post over Xmas and thought you might have a response by now - it must be because of the holiday break because folk are usually swift to help.

Firstly correct diagnosis is v important - does your car have the symptoms detailed here?

Also there was a post by gjnorthall in which he suggested an option might be to go to a member of FER - Federation of engine re- manfacturers - I can't remember where though!

If you wanted you could send him a note directly

Hopefully you will get further responses shortly

The problem with re building the 2AD engine is its complexity. The Toyota Dealers had lots of problems with doing re builds and is partly responsible for the exchange engine programme .. The 2AD engine is not an engine to let all but the very best technicians work on..

To be frank if my car were to develop symptoms I would trade it in in an instant.

[Diesel1]

I think it might be time to let Mr T have a look at the Verso! The engine used quite a bit of oil in the last month and the heaters are blowing rather cool. There hve been a couple of occasions when the car has had a distinct smell of hot engine when starting up. There is coolant in the header tank but there was when I took the car for the initial service that revealed the failure of the original engine.

I need to get the correct things checked. Is there anything I should specifically ask when I take it in?

Simon.

[FROSTYBALLS]

"To be frank if my car were to develop symptoms I would trade it in in an instant."

Thought the 2000-2005 Rav4 used the CD series engines, not the AD series.

[Parts-King]

The problem with re building the 2AD engine is its complexity. The Toyota Dealers had lots of problems with doing re builds and is partly responsible for the exchange engine programme .. The 2AD engine is not an engine to let all but the very best technicians work on..

.

They were a complex repair, and a lengthy one too, but the reason they moved to a 3/4 engine was so that Toyota could control the costs from start to finish. There were a million and one parts to replace, and just the logistics of moving those parts around Europe in their thousands was bad enough, let alone the costs of paying the dealers labour charge. Much more cost efficient to rebuild the engine on a factory line and ship the whole engine rather than all its componants. They could also control the quality too as an engine factory would ensure a standard build time after time

Kingo

[scone6]

Thanks for reply, I wasn't expecting many replies over this week or 2 to be fair! I had the 3 warnings come up on dash, a couple of days later the car broke down. I had a diesel specialist take a look at it and he said it was burning oil but got it running again and didn't want to dig any deeper because of the history of these engines. It still runs but is knocking quite a lot. I took it to Toyota and after they checked it they said it needs a new engine because of the injector issue and the burning oil. I still can't believe the prices they have quoted me. I've looked on eBay for engines for sale but not sure what quality they will be. I'll look into that what you've mentioned thanks

[James..]

hi people, some good news, looks like the engine will be replaced gratis by Mr. T so I'm having the clutch done at the same time while the engine is out. Question is, can I trust this new engine? Big thanks to Charliefarlie for posting this... as my local Toyota official service people were clueless and this might have cost me a fortune. Car's been off the road now for about three weeks so it will be nice to see it again, hopefully next week :-)

[kencat]

Think Charlie helped a lot out over the years , clutch sound a good idea , and the engine don't seam 2 give much trouble after ( reading on here ) , good luck !

[UncleBob]

where is charlie ?

[Tony Barnsley]

where is charlie ?

Banned!!

[Parts-King]

where is charlie ?

Banned!!

Really?

[Diesel1]

My Verso Corolla is going to Mr T in the morning for a prepaid service with extra checks for engine/head gasket failure! Fingers crossed.....

Simon.

[Tony Barnsley]

where is charlie ?

Banned!!

Really?

Well where My status under my Avatar says member via FB, Charlies says 'Banned', make of that what you will . . .

[Raistlin]

where is charlie ?

Banned!!

Really?

Finger on the pulse as normal Kingo :)

[FROSTYBALLS]

Or was there a touch of sarcasm ...