Charliefarlies Guide To The Toyota 2Ad Diesel Engine And Its Issues.

[anchorman]

As the number of engines changed is so high you should have no problems finding a second hand car with a new engine according to this info. We have no guarantees that Toyota will not be bought or merged either so why raise panic on something that might not happen. I have not even asked the question with Toyota or their agents as having come from the motor industry it is obvious to me that they reserve the right to change the policy. They have done so already by improving the warranty from a rebuild to a replace with remanufactured.

Simon

The head problems often occur only after heavier driving so police cars etc are common customers. Oil consumption would be evident soon after purchase and the warranty terms are still in place to protect you.

As for me, I'm still under the kitchen table. Its the safest place to be in case of thermo nuclear war.

[Big Kev]

As the number of engines changed is so high you should have no problems finding a second hand car with a new engine according to this info. We have no guarantees that Toyota will not be bought or merged either so why raise panic on something that might not happen. I have not even asked the question with Toyota or their agents as having come from the motor industry it is obvious to me that they reserve the right to change the policy. They have done so already by improving the warranty from a rebuild to a replace with remanufactured.

Simon

The head problems often occur only after heavier driving so police cars etc are common customers. Oil consumption would be evident soon after purchase and the warranty terms are still in place to protect you.

As for me, I'm still under the kitchen table. Its the safest place to be in case of thermo nuclear war.

Here's a question, and forgive its naivity (is that not a Christmas play.....?).....

Should Charlie be correct and Toyota do "scrap" the replacement engine warranty, surely they would have to replace it with another "offering", albeit that offering would be more than likely a lot more in their commercial favour / interest?

And just wan more wee question......the 7 year warranty was only put in place because Toyota, to their credit, must have admitted they made a boo- boo with these engines. Is it acceptable they can just turn round and say "only kidding" ?

Big Kev....just checked oil last night.....'sokeydokey.

[anchorman]

As the number of engines changed is so high you should have no problems finding a second hand car with a new engine according to this info. We have no guarantees that Toyota will not be bought or merged either so why raise panic on something that might not happen. I have not even asked the question with Toyota or their agents as having come from the motor industry it is obvious to me that they reserve the right to change the policy. They have done so already by improving the warranty from a rebuild to a replace with remanufactured.

Simon

The head problems often occur only after heavier driving so police cars etc are common customers. Oil consumption would be evident soon after purchase and the warranty terms are still in place to protect you.

As for me, I'm still under the kitchen table. Its the safest place to be in case of thermo nuclear war.

Here's a question, and forgive its naivity (is that not a Christmas play.....?).....

Should Charlie be correct and Toyota do "scrap" the replacement engine warranty, surely they would have to replace it with another "offering", albeit that offering would be more than likely a lot more in their commercial favour / interest?

And just wan more wee question......the 7 year warranty was only put in place because Toyota, to their credit, must have admitted they made a boo- boo with these engines. Is it acceptable they can just turn round and say "only kidding" ?

Big Kev....just checked oil last night.....'sokeydokey.

They can do what most other manufacturers would say and tell you "the balls in your court". BTW, as you have a a car that MIGHT have an engine problem one day despite it behaving perfectly normally and no concern whatsoever, by all accounts it is worthless so I will be collecting it on my next visit and selling it for spares (minus the engine of course). I'm afraid there will be a disposal fee for the worthless heap of junk.

[Big Kev]

I have just been reminded of exactly WHY this forum ranks way above most others...this offer comes from a guy who has either lost, nicked or broken most of my dashboard whilst installing phone and ipod upgrades, drilled extra "aerodynamic holes" in ma back bumper, rendering the car almost valueless, and now with impending engine failure, he will STILL take it off my hands.....????

.....remember but.....ah willnae be laughing if the engine DIZ fail.......litigation of a wee Glesga guy would ensue....one cannot admit liability then say GIRUY in the next breath....

Ah love ma car.......

[Davrav]

I have just been reminded of exactly WHY this forum ranks way above most others...this offer comes from a guy who has either lost, nicked or broken most of my dashboard whilst installing phone and ipod upgrades, drilled extra "aerodynamic holes" in ma back bumper, rendering the car almost valueless, and now with impending engine failure, he will STILL take it off my hands.....????

.....remember but.....ah willnae be laughing if the engine DIZ fail.......litigation of a wee Glesga guy would ensue....one cannot admit liability then say GIRUY in the next breath....

Ah love ma car.......

Look on the bright side Kev - If you didn't have the car to worry about, you'd only be worrying over something else.

Just off to check my oil............................

[shcm]

I'm afraid there will be a disposal fee for the worthless heap of junk.

It's not quite worthless yet. I have to re-wire it first. THEN it will be worthless

THEN I'll see about waiving my disposal fee. You have competition! :D.

[Big Kev]

Could let youz both loose on it, and it would be totally RE-BRANDED....into A Jeep of Hunk.....

Certain parochial members will not get that wan......

[CharlieFarlie]

As the number of engines changed is so high you should have no problems finding a second hand car with a new engine according to this info. We have no guarantees that Toyota will not be bought or merged either so why raise panic on something that might not happen. I have not even asked the question with Toyota or their agents as having come from the motor industry it is obvious to me that they reserve the right to change the policy. They have done so already by improving the warranty from a rebuild to a replace with remanufactured.

Simon

The head problems often occur only after heavier driving so police cars etc are common customers. Oil consumption would be evident soon after purchase and the warranty terms are still in place to protect you.

As for me, I'm still under the kitchen table. Its the safest place to be in case of thermo nuclear war.

.............

[CharlieFarlie]

As the number of engines changed is so high you should have no problems finding a second hand car with a new engine according to this info. We have no guarantees that Toyota will not be bought or merged either so why raise panic on something that might not happen. I have not even asked the question with Toyota or their agents as having come from the motor industry it is obvious to me that they reserve the right to change the policy. They have done so already by improving the warranty from a rebuild to a replace with remanufactured.

Simon

The head problems often occur only after heavier driving so police cars etc are common customers. Oil consumption would be evident soon after purchase and the warranty terms are still in place to protect you.

As for me, I'm still under the kitchen table. Its the safest place to be in case of thermo nuclear war.

!

As the number of engines changed is so high you should have no problems finding a second hand car with a new engine according to this info. We have no guarantees that Toyota will not be bought or merged either so why raise panic on something that might not happen. I have not even asked the question with Toyota or their agents as having come from the motor industry it is obvious to me that they reserve the right to change the policy. They have done so already by improving the warranty from a rebuild to a replace with remanufactured.

Simon

The head problems often occur only after heavier driving so police cars etc are common customers. Oil consumption would be evident soon after purchase and the warranty terms are still in place to protect you.

As for me, I'm still under the kitchen table. Its the safest place to be in case of thermo nuclear war.

Here's a question, and forgive its naivity (is that not a Christmas play.....?).....

Should Charlie be correct and Toyota do "scrap" the replacement engine warranty, surely they would have to replace it with another "offering", albeit that offering would be more than likely a lot more in their commercial favour / interest?

And just wan more wee question......the 7 year warranty was only put in place because Toyota, to their credit, must have admitted they made a boo- boo with these engines. Is it acceptable they can just turn round and say "only kidding" ?

Big Kev....just checked oil last night.....'sokeydokey.

[jedi134]

So heres the deal from here on in .... Whatever I hear I will keep to Myself.. Far simpler that way.

No No No Charles.............you can`t do that.......You need to spread the words that come from the Darkside of the stealerships

:D Now they know what oils to put in there engines (Special spec Toyota FE/PFE) there should be no engine failures, if there are any failures.......it will be the owners fault because the wrong type of oil was used so no warranty.......they can now phase it out slowly!!!

Are all the dealerships now using the Toyota stuff? or are some still using the major brands?

I dare you to put that Castrol A1 ford spec stuff in again.............after all your dealership says its ok :P so they will fix the engine again for free.

Infact ask them if its still ok to use that oil?

[anchorman]

Charlie.

I believe you implicitly about what you have been told, I just tend not to worry too much about it. If it happens that they change the warranty then some owners might have something to worry about but at the moment everything is OK. On many occasions I have concurred that you have been exceptionally unlucky but why should having a new engine fitted still have cause for concern?

You seem to think I mock you or take the mick but I don't at all. There are several here that take a very depressing and cynical view of this whole thing and which could be depressing for those that have an "at risk" vehicle even though there is absolutely no guarantee they will ever have a problem. For most, the worst that can happen is that they might have to keep topping up with oil. Not brilliant in these post A series BMC days but not life threatening either.

I'm allowed to post what I believe to be a balanced opinion in order to instill some calm on here and I don't think taking such a serious view is such a necessity. If it comes to it, why do you keep having such a personal and unpleasant pop at me for having an opinion? I've got feelings too.

I'm not your enemy - don't take it so personally.

[CharlieFarlie]

..................

[shcm]

Its well over 6000 and rising FAST.....

Charlie mate, don't think I'm taking sides, 'cause I don't want to do that and have no intension of that, but my initial reaction to that was, "oh, not so bad after all".

Don't get me wrong, it's not great either. It certainly won't have single digit ppm (parts per million) failure rates that we are expected (and achieve) to meet with ECUs.

Is this spread across the whole Toyota range? So, Avensis, RAV, Verso, what else? Also it will be, say, what? - out of at least 2 to 3 years of sales?

Not sure of the exact UK sales, but I have a feeling RAV is something like 25k volume and I would bet most are diesel? The others are probably much higher volume.

Would 20k (sales) * 3 (models) * 2 (years) = 120k be unreasonable? So about 5 in 100 cars? Maybe much lower, depends on my rough estimates above. So, 1 in 20 cars. How would you feel about odds on a horse @ 20 to 1?

Yes, dire for volume manufacture, but not the "almost a dead cert of replacement" impression that can be given at times. (Perhaps that is not the intension)

The new JLR engine plant that is going up near here, in the local paper last night, claimed it would be producing 300k 4 cyl engines a year (OK petrol and diesel). They put a figure of one engine off the line every 36 seconds.

At peak prod volume, we have produced a single ECU varient @ 2M a year or about 1 every 15 seconds if you like (faster than that in reality). Now that's scary when something goes wrong and auto electronics is not a particularly high vol elec industry compared with some.

So is 6k really a big figure? This isn't a recall, but you can have to deal with far more than that when you have to do one of those (which we all in the industry absolutely dread. Unfortunately **** happens even with the most diligent and dedicated workforce).

[anchorman]

Don I cannot give numbers... In fact I am seriously considering removing what I have put above But heres a number and I will remove it before the day is out this is an approximate number as giving the exact one will be betraying a confidence..

Its well over 6000 and rising FAST.....

So now perhaps You will see why advising someone to buy a car with an engine affected is Errr Well not a great idea ? Especially if the policy for replacement is VERY likely to be withdrawn.......

Would You like to own one or go ahead and buy one with those figures ?? Be truthfull here ?????

I would never ask you to divulge any sensitive info on here. If I was really needing it I would just phone you and ask.

I know you have the best intentions in all this but it honestly doesn't phase me and yes I truly would go ahead and buy one. If I found it using oil I would try and get a new engine but if they pulled the plug on the claim I would just keep adding oil. The head gasket thing is a bigger concern because if that fails then it is surgery and in some cases a new gasket set alone wouldn,t fix it.

If my roof blew off I would be very concerned but if you saw it you would say "thats nowt, what are you worried about". My RAV is of the newer type and should incorporate all the good things that come with a reworked 2AD. However, I haven't got a clue if there are any skeletons in the cupboard waiting to present me with a big bill when it is outside the warranty period. If something throws in it's hand I will worry about it when it happens and I could resolve any worry by running a £500 banger. I have spent big money because I like a decent modern car but to some extent I take a chance. If something fails that is "unreasonable" like an engine, transmission or some expensive ECU then I can only keep my fingers crossed that Toyota will do the right thing.

I honestly and truthfully feel much better in the Toyota fold than I would in any other. I can't help it, it's just how I feel - maybe because I'm so familiar with them.

Maybe one day I will confound the day I ever saw it but I'm not going to lose sleep over it right now.

[jedi134]

Some good words there from the forum mod...its only a car after all.....there are better things to worry about...:D.......I run a freelander, and the slagging it gets is Unbelivable, but it goes for now, I put in oils I feel will benifit it and so far so good....I love it, especially off road, more than the rav....mpg has improved dramatically with the EGR mod.......IMHO its all down to how good the repair work has been done, as to how long it will run........one Chef can cook and the other thinks he can...........

After 85k miles in my rav you want to see the state of my cv grease, it dripped out like a 0w/20 oil ........topic to come when I get cleaned up

[Simon Dean]

I second the Thanks to Charlie and indeed the group as a whole. In looking for my next car, I want something reliable, and I do like the look of the Avensis and the economy of the D4D, and of course Toyota and Reliability are usually synonymous. Perhaps I could bite the bullet and go for a 2.2 D4D Toyota Avensis, but forgetting the numbers game - enough reports indicate that the engine appears to have quite a few issues, the, problems I see are:

No one really knows what causes it - whether its a user issue, or design flaw.

No one really knows if they have fixed it in their replacement engines or newer models - I've heard reports of those getting replacements also going wrong. But there is a strong suspicion of a reworking in late 2008?

Basically if I knew that doing XYZ would prevent the issue, fine! I change all my oils and fluids myself anyhow and go every six months on my car. If it's a design flaw, knowing if there's a certain model to go for, or that Toyota would give me the support for an engine with less than 90k on the clock, then I would hope Toyota would do the honourable thing and secure a replacement that is known to work.

It is those technical details I'd be more interested in than actual numbers, for Toyota to say, yup, there's a fault, but if you do this, then you can prevent it, but we'll support you up to XYZ.

Basically, if my old Automatic Primera 2.0 can get to 140k with a sludged up engine and massive coolant loss and still run fine, I would hope that Toyota engines are similarly as bullet proof. But I gather that's not the case anymore. Im highly nervous about being left with a £6k lump after a few months.

[CharlieFarlie]

Simon it gives Me absolutely NO pleasure to say that the cars with the above engines are a massive risk. So why take it ? Well to some it seems that getting a few more Members on board or justifying having bought a car afflicted is reason enough..

I posted a figure of over 6000 units and rising.. The number if far far higher than that !! But I have stuck My neck out enough and I will not do so any longer simply because with that massive number and rising and the likelihood of Toyota removing the current replacement policy all I do is get moaned at for doing so...

It leaves Me speechless when We know the numbers and Yet some still say they would buy one ... Really ?? Why ??

It costs Toyota just under £2400 to carry out a replacement engine swap.. I have absolute solid proof of that on Toyota paperwork here...

So all the exaggerated numbers of 7K and above are nonsense and hearsay.

The engine unit itself is just under 1400 quid and the reason its costs Toyota so little per unit is THAT THEY ARE DOING SO !Removed! MANY !!!. An engine for say a smaller petrol car would be over 4500 if buying retail at a Toyota Dealer...

God knows how much You would be asked to pay for a 2.2 Diesel engine when either warranty expires or is withdrawn..

My car despite having a brand new engine is worth very little as a trade in simply because Most dealers and by that I mean non Toyota have caught on... Again this is disputed here but as I've said before try trading one in and then come back with concrete evidence......

I even refused to sell My car to a fellow forum Member on the grounds that Its a worthless piece of crap and would I buy it ???

[dervdave]

My car despite having a brand new engine is worth very little as a trade in simply because Most dealers and by that I mean non Toyota have caught on.

Nows the time to sell it private, someone will take it off your troubled hands for a fair price. :)

[acetip]

My son has a Lexus with the 2.2 engine in it and ive warned him to keep an eye on the oil and coolant levels. but he takes no notice of what i say.

he was around at mine a couple of weeks ago, so i checked under the bonnet for him.

The oil level was about the half way mark so i topped it up with some of my Mobil ESp 5w 30. the coolant was a little low,but not much. but would have shown even lower with a cold engine.the coolant does not appear discoloured.

the engine cover had a few white marks on it near the coolant tank cap which were easely removed with a damp cloth.

i told him once again to keep checing things.

He was around at mine yesterday afternoon and it was just driving away when i asked him if he had been checking the levels and he just smiled and said no. and drove off.

He had the the Lexus about 4 year i think and its an ex demonstrator with a couple of thoudand on it. Its now just reached 100000 miles so does not have much miliage left on the extended warranty

The car is always serviced at a Toyota dealers.Ive told him to have a word with them before the warranty runs out but if he will i just dont know.

Anyway his last service was done about 9000 miles ago so is due soon for the next one.

[Parts-King]

....remember but.....ah willnae be laughing if the engine DIZ fail.......litigation of a wee Glesga guy would ensue....one cannot admit liability then say GIRUY in the next breath....

When I hear Big_Kevs accent I leads me to remembering him in that well known series............Benidorm Fair doo's Kev, you have been funny in this series

[Big Kev]

My son has a Lexus with the 2.2 engine in it and ive warned him to keep an eye on the oil and coolant levels. but he takes no notice of what i say.

he was around at mine a couple of weeks ago, so i checked under the bonnet for him.

The oil level was about the half way mark so i topped it up with some of my Mobil ESp 5w 30. the coolant was a little low,but not much. but would have shown even lower with a cold engine.the coolant does not appear discoloured.

the engine cover had a few white marks on it near the coolant tank cap which were easely removed with a damp cloth.

i told him once again to keep checing things.

He was around at mine yesterday afternoon and it was just driving away when i asked him if he had been checking the levels and he just smiled and said no. and drove off.

He had the the Lexus about 4 year i think and its an ex demonstrator with a couple of thoudand on it. Its now just reached 100000 miles so does not have much miliage left on the extended warranty

The car is always serviced at a Toyota dealers.Ive told him to have a word with them before the warranty runs out but if he will i just dont know.

Anyway his last service was done about 9000 miles ago so is due soon for the next one.

Peter....wish I had a Dad like you....he sounds kinda "easy come / easy go" your boy....you've done your bit (for many years....?) Watch his visage change if the engine blows....

Big Kev

[Big Kev]

My son has a Lexus with the 2.2 engine in it and ive warned him to keep an eye on the oil and coolant levels. but he takes no notice of what i say.

he was around at mine a couple of weeks ago, so i checked under the bonnet for him.

The oil level was about the half way mark so i topped it up with some of my Mobil ESp 5w 30. the coolant was a little low,but not much. but would have shown even lower with a cold engine.the coolant does not appear discoloured.

the engine cover had a few white marks on it near the coolant tank cap which were easely removed with a damp cloth.

i told him once again to keep checing things.

He was around at mine yesterday afternoon and it was just driving away when i asked him if he had been checking the levels and he just smiled and said no. and drove off.

He had the the Lexus about 4 year i think and its an ex demonstrator with a couple of thoudand on it. Its now just reached 100000 miles so does not have much miliage left on the extended warranty

The car is always serviced at a Toyota dealers.Ive told him to have a word with them before the warranty runs out but if he will i just dont know.

Anyway his last service was done about 9000 miles ago so is due soon for the next one.

Peter....wish I had a Dad like you....he sounds kinda "easy come / easy go" your boy....you've done your bit (for many years....?) Watch his visage change if the engine blows....

Big Kev

....remember but.....ah willnae be laughing if the engine DIZ fail.......litigation of a wee Glesga guy would ensue....one cannot admit liability then say GIRUY in the next breath....

When I hear Big_Kevs accent I leads me to remembering him in that well known series............Benidorm Fair doo's Kev, you have been funny in this series

I take conception to that....this guy plays the part of a perverted wife swapping orgy arranging bilingual sex mechanic.......ok....the hat fits....

[CharlieFarlie]

A Friends son in law has a 58 plate SR with the 2.2 engine fitted...

Early last Year the turbo blew due to the car running very low on oil.. This was before what We know know to be a very common problem indeed...

He accepts that the main reason the turbo went was because He failed to check the oil enough.....

Since the 2000 quid replacement of said turbo the car has had a severe thirst for oil.

Armed with a raft of information He went to a good Dealer and this week will be getting a replacement engine fitted... The turbo issue whilst as a result of not checking the oil was likely a result of the cars thirst for oil...

I have to ask a question here though....

We know that a HUGE amount of engines have been replaced....

This number continues to rise an a weekly if not daily basis..

There is a distinct possibility that the change of engine policy is to be changed...

So how the hell can We say to new Members that the car is a good car to buy ??

It seems that only the Owners of the later unaffected cars are of this view but lets face it unless the car You are about to buy or the one You own is affected then that opinion counts for Nowt.....

Toyota have been very good to Me and I thank them for that but the fact remains.. My car has little value either as a trade in or as a private sale simply because the cat is well and truly out of the bag....

Anyone considering buying a car with said engine between 2006 and late 2009 should make sure they have enough coin to either repair that engine should it fail..

To most of Us a car is a major purchase and usually second only to the house so think long and hard before placing Your bets...

To those offering advice to the contrary also think long and hard as not all have the money to take the financial losses that can and likely would come if an engine fails outside of warranty or the warranty policy changes....

[Gods_gift]

Right after being called mug by you and told to !Removed! - I ask you a question after your last post relating to the year range my car is from.

My car has one of these engines a 2.2 2AD it is a 56 plate it has 103,000 miles on no thirst for oil or coolant and runs like a dream.

Are you saying if I chose to sell (which I'm not) any would be owner would be bonkers to buy it, if so I still think your mistaken?

[CharlieFarlie]

Right after being called mug by you and told to !Removed! - I ask you a question after your last post relating to the year range my car is from.

My car has one of these engines a 2.2 2AD it is a 56 plate it has 103,000 miles on no thirst for oil or coolant and runs like a dream.

Are you saying if I chose to sell (which I'm not) any would be owner would be bonkers to buy it, if so I still think your mistaken?

Buyer would have to barking mad.... Or know nothing about the current issues... Your car even if the warranty policy is not changed will soon be out of warranty on mileage..

But what is You problem ? You say You are not selling so why worry ?? After all with that mileage I'm assuming You have had it a long time and therefore had Your moneys worth out of it or paid very little for it so the financial risk is less..

Common failure mileage is between 45 and 60.000 miles so it could be that Yours will be fine.. Lets hope so because with that mileage Your options are few....