Charliefarlies Guide To The Toyota 2Ad Diesel Engine And Its Issues.

[CharlieFarlie]

Don....

Even if Toyota do not alter current policy many of the AFFECTED cars are now coming to well within a year of the extended warranty end...

Sorry but I cannot believe they are under the current policy replacing engines just because they are burning oil. There are consequential issues that can and will follow just allowing the engines to continue burning oil as You above all off Us well know !!

[anchorman]

• There is a chance that an owner could sieze an engine if they let it run dry (although there is low oil warning).
  
• 
  
• There is a chance that the carbon could block the EGR and or the DPF (DNPR)/ CAT.
  
• 
  
• There is a chance that the carbon could contribute to cylinder head problems.
  

We know about all these things as they have come to light over the years. Maybe you think there is something more???

What determins whether or not Toyota offer an extended warranty is dependant on a "test of reasonableness". If it is considered that one or a number of the above faults could be considered unreasonable then they will consider a program. The next question is what could be considered reasonable. For that reason they have to put limits on the warranty and they will have deemed 7 years or 110k miles reasonable. That would stand up in a court if somebody was to litigate. It would not be expected for Toyota to offer an unlimited lifetime guarantee. Seven years or 110k miles should be long enough for an owner or number of owners to identify a fault or excessive oil consumption. The problem is that not all vehicles are effected and some use little or no noticeable oil. This virtually eliminates the other issues above. Is it reasonable to expect Toyota to recall all vehicles produced when some are OK?

If you don't think it is reasonable then you are better voting with your feet but I think it is utterly reasonable and it gives me enough confidence to stay with Toyota.

[CharlieFarlie]

• There is a chance that an owner could sieze an engine if they let it run dry (although there is low oil warning).
  
• There is a chance that the carbon could block the EGR and or the DPF (DNPR)/ CAT.
  
• There is a chance that the carbon could contribute to cylinder head problems.
  

Does there need to be more ?? I think the above are more than enough given that the chance as You put it is extremely large if not definite...

How many times do I have to praise Toyota for their actions so far ?? Are You not reading or just ignoring ???

You can be assured that I am trying to vote with My feet but as I've said many times the car has little value and circumstances dictate advertising is difficult at this time ... Do You not listen ??

Even IF Totota do not change current policy the cars with that !Removed! engine will shortly be running out of even the extended warranty.. Yes I agree that that warranty is or has been extremely generous. but when it expires or is withdrawn whichever comes first the cars will be a major liability !!

EGS are easily cleaned or not that expensive to replace.. DPNR/CAT around 800 quid.. Engine ???. Yet still You maintain the cars would be a good bet ???

People should not worry or panic.... After all over 6000 units and rising sounds quite normal eh ???? Yerrrrr Right...

[Gods_gift]

Is that 6000 units at your dealer?

[CharlieFarlie]

Is that 6000 units at your dealer?

No Mate what I said was over 6000 units via Toyota UK through the dealer network.. I wish I could tell You how many over 6000 units it is but I really have stuck My neck out saying what I have.. That is why I removed many of My posts above.....

Dealer I used was doing 4 to 6 cars a week depending on how many they could get their hands on.....

[jedi134]

I don't know what you put in my brew anchs, but its working

I'm sure I posted some constructive replys in this topic

[anchorman]

• There is a chance that an owner could sieze an engine if they let it run dry (although there is low oil warning).
  
• There is a chance that the carbon could block the EGR and or the DPF (DNPR)/ CAT.
  
• There is a chance that the carbon could contribute to cylinder head problems.
  

Does there need to be more ?? I think the above are more than enough given that the chance as You put it is extremely large if not definite...

How many times do I have to praise Toyota for their actions so far ?? Are You not reading or just ignoring ???

You can be assured that I am trying to vote with My feet but as I've said many times the car has little value and circumstances dictate advertising is difficult at this time ... Do You not listen ??

Even IF Totota do not change current policy the cars with that !Removed! engine will shortly be running out of even the extended warranty.. Yes I agree that that warranty is or has been extremely generous. but when it expires or is withdrawn whichever comes first the cars will be a major liability !!

EGS are easily cleaned or not that expensive to replace.. DPNR/CAT around 800 quid.. Engine ???. Yet still You maintain the cars would be a good bet ???

People should not worry or panic.... After all over 6000 units and rising sounds quite normal eh ???? Yerrrrr Right...

The number failed is academic if your info is correct. Whether you say over 6000 or under 7000 it doesn't really matter. I don't know why you are sticking your neck out Charlie. If somebody was unhappy about it what could they do? They could no more do you for saying 6572 than they could for saying over 6000.

6000 sounds high but without knowing the park I don't know what that means. You are definitely not in a position to say that the likelihood of failure is extremely "large, if not definite" otherwise there would be four zeros not three.

I think we have to agree to disagree on this one buddy. Get another round in and lets talk about the weather. ;)

I saw 2 abandoned Freelanders today. What surprised me was the way they were abandoned - just left in the middle of the road!!!

[sonixtorm]

This has likely been covered elsewhere, but I can't for the life of me find it. Does the oil consumption always have to be above the level stated in the TSB to qualify for a replacement engine?

Reason I ask is that the dash has just lit up on our T180 (VSC, 4WD, Engine) and from reading elsewhere I anticipate a blocked EGR valve. It's using some oil, but not nearly the amount stated in the TSB. Is a blocked EGR valve enough in itself to qualify for a replacement?

TIA.

[CharlieFarlie]

This has likely been covered elsewhere, but I can't for the life of me find it. Does the oil consumption always have to be above the level stated in the TSB to qualify for a replacement engine?

Reason I ask is that the dash has just lit up on our T180 (VSC, 4WD, Engine) and from reading elsewhere I anticipate a blocked EGR valve. It's using some oil, but not nearly the amount stated in the TSB. Is a blocked EGR valve enough in itself to qualify for a replacement?

TIA.

Unless You are using the limit or over the limit on oil consumption then the vehicle will not qualify on that one...

Do You have the fault code from the dash warning ??

Is there any signs of coolant loss or the typical spatters of coolant coming from the header tank overflow ?

Your warning light could be unrelated to the engine...

[sonixtorm]

Do You have the fault code from the dash warning ?? Is there any signs of coolant loss or the typical spatters of coolant coming from the header tank overflow ? Your warning light could be unrelated to the engine...

Thanks Charlie. No coolant loss, and I am due to have the codes read first thing in the morning, so should know more then. If there's no chance of a swap, I my well get it looked at/sorted by my local garage.

[CharlieFarlie]

Do You have the fault code from the dash warning ?? Is there any signs of coolant loss or the typical spatters of coolant coming from the header tank overflow ? Your warning light could be unrelated to the engine...

Thanks Charlie. No coolant loss, and I am due to have the codes read first thing in the morning, so should know more then. If there's no chance of a swap, I my well get it looked at/sorted by my local garage.

Mate PLEASE take it to a Toyota dealer.... Only they can sanction warranty or extended warranty work...

It could be the code is directly liked to the common engine problems or it could be totally unrelated..

If the code is unrelated and the engine is not burning enough oil then they will not replace the engine Unless the head gasket has blown.. The EGR or DNPR is blocked or heavily sooted ....

Heavily sooted EGR is also a pointer along with heavy fuel consumption... Take a look inside the EGR but do not clean it even if it is completely blocked or You are removing the evidence Toyota need....

I feel the code is vital... I also believe You can get it read by say Your local garage but do not remove that code !!

The Dealer is Your best option here without a doubt...

How many miles has the car done and does it have a good service history ? It does not have to be Toyota history so long as the car has reasonable service history You will be fine If it is a major fault....

Let Us know ???

[tonyjo]

Hi I'm New.

My Rav 4 2006 has been using lots of oil, yesterday it blew out black smoke and was very hard to steer.

I took it to my local garage( not a toyota) and they said the cylinder head had blown.

They are not able to look at it properley till Monday.

Would I be best to take it to a Toyota dealer to have it checked out.

I wasn't aware of this problem with Rav 4 till I found this thread on the website.

I haven't had my Rav serviced by a dealer for 2 years. my partner is former mechanic and he does the oil changes and services the rav.

[Davrav]

I would deffinitely get it to a main dealer whilst it is still covered by the seven year warranty - assuming it has done less than 112K miles.

Provided you can show it has been 'reasonably maintained' then you should be OK.

Kee us informed as to progress and good luck

[sonixtorm]

The Dealer is Your best option here without a doubt...

How many miles has the car done and does it have a good service history ? It does not have to be Toyota history so long as the car has reasonable service history You will be fine If it is a major fault....

Let Us know ???

Just as a quick update, the code turned out to be P2002, shortly followed by gutlessness under 2K RPM; ultimately down to a grubby EGR valve.

The car has done 55K, with a good service history. Covered quite a few miles since this and still using minimal amounts of oil, so it looks like it lives to coke another day ;)

[mccosbro]

Hi Charlie I have gone through this exact procedure with my car and I got a reworked engine fitted. The procedure was exactly as you described even being offered a clutch change. However I still have dreadful mpg. Today May 6th 2012 according to the computer only 23.6mpg my Renault master van with a ton and a half of books on board does better than that. what the ;:,(£&@ is going on and what can I do. Mccosbro

[DjRav]

Hi Charlie I have gone through this exact procedure with my car and I got a reworked engine fitted. The procedure was exactly as you described even being offered a clutch change. However I still have dreadful mpg. Today May 6th 2012 according to the computer only 23.6mpg my Renault master van with a ton and a half of books on board does better than that. what the ;:,(£&@ is going on and what can I do. Mccosbro

Maybe go to the garage and tell them their fuels not working properly. You might be given some for nothing (like your engine)

Dave

[JerryB]

Hi,new to the TOC. Bought my first Avensis exactly a week ago - 2008 2.0 d4d TR.

Found i was getting low on coolant everyday, so after reading the various 'posts' from this club i realised i might have an engine problem. Charlies post was exceptionally useful - thanks so much 'King Charlie'. Went in to my Toyota dealer in Tunbridge Wells - had a cup of coffee while they checked it out. Nice man Nigel came straight to the point - head gasket gone, you are getting a replacement new engine free of charge courtesy of Toyota. No quibble at all. How chuffed was I? Really impressed as my car had done 101k about 5 stamps in the book (3 from Toyota). I asked if the new engine would be better or is it likely to go again. He told me they had improved the head gasket design? (can anyone throw any light on this?) but if it goes again they will fit another.

Regards Jerry

[CharlieFarlie]

Hi,new to the TOC. Bought my first Avensis exactly a week ago - 2008 2.0 d4d TR.

Found i was getting low on coolant everyday, so after reading the various 'posts' from this club i realised i might have an engine problem. Charlies post was exceptionally useful - thanks so much 'King Charlie'. Went in to my Toyota dealer in Tunbridge Wells - had a cup of coffee while they checked it out. Nice man Nigel came straight to the point - head gasket gone, you are getting a replacement new engine free of charge courtesy of Toyota. No quibble at all. How chuffed was I? Really impressed as my car had done 101k about 5 stamps in the book (3 from Toyota). I asked if the new engine would be better or is it likely to go again. He told me they had improved the head gasket design? (can anyone throw any light on this?) but if it goes again they will fit another.

Regards Jerry

Jerry. Replacement engines have modified pistons and rings along with changes to the engine block and a raft of other minor changes...

My first replacement engine was worse than the original in so much as it burnt more oil ...

But it too was replaced under the current engine replacement policy..

Second replacement engine did exhibit some problems and was taken via an RAC transporter back to the dealership...

All sorted now though I hope .........................................

[sid_swe]

Hi,

It would be great if you could spend a few minutes reading my story and give me your thoughts on this....

I own a 2007 2.2 D4D Rav4. The first head gasket was blown by 65000km (insurance company paid for the new gasket exchange). The second head gasket went at 90000km. Just a couple of 100km after the 90000km service.

When it happened me and my family was on a trip 500km from home. The Toyota dealer had no idea about any head gasket problems with the ad engines. I had to google the net to find this site and then ask the dealer to contact Toyota Sweden if they could take this under the extended warranty.

This was done. I had my replacement engine installed last week. I went back to get my Rav4 last weekend. I tried to get information on exactly what parts had been exchanged but the dealer said the mechanics was out of vacation and that he didn't know what had been changed but "the engine is new so don't worry...."

The first thing I noticed getting in the car was distinct diesel knocking sound. Since diesels can have some sound to it I didn't think much of it. The thing is it started to be more distinct as I went.

After a couple of 100 km on my way back north, driving carefully around 2-3k rpm, warning lights were lit and warning sound beeped. The errors were:

Check Engine System

Check VSC System

Check 4x4 System

Also the engine lost all power over 2000rpm. I limped a couple of km but after a while I had to stop and tow the car back home.

The car is now at another Toyota dealer in my home town (atleast that's something). They too had never heard of anything like this. They have investigated the problems and found that the 5th injector is broken and needs to be replaced. A price of around 12000 SEK which I'm not eager to pay.

Could anyone help me understand what has happened? Did they forget something during the engine exchange? Will I get another engine or is it sufficient just to replace the injector?

It's great that Toyota is taking ownership of its short comings but what's frustrating is the dealerships lack of knowledge. I have to inform them that this is a known ad engine problem.

/sid

[Davrav]

Hello Sid and welcome to the club.

Sorry to hear of your troubles. I think you or your dealer need to contact Toyota Sweden and get them involved in your case. It sounds as if something was missed when the engine was changed especially if the fifth injector is actually broken.

[sid_swe]

I've now contacted Toyota Sweden. I told them about the 2 head gasket blown, about the new engine replacement and how I didn't even make it home from the dealer.

The response was not great. They started to question the service intervals not being made at Toyota for every occassion (about half Toyota - latest 90k was Toyota also) and I told them the car is well taken care of anyway as stated in the service book. Also that they already agreed this was something they should take ownership of and that they have paid for the replacement engine for a reason. They said that the dealer that made the engine replacement should be the responsible one if something went wrong during the engine swap - problems not related to that was my problem.

They said they were going to contact the both Toyota dealers to get briefed and that I would hear from them later.

Today I got a call from dealer that has been investigating the car for me now. They had clean the clogged particle filter (DPF?) and the error code was now gone and everything looked ok. I asked for the error codes they had found and they were:

P2002

P1386

I'm going to pick up the car later today but I'm now paying for anything yet. Still waiting to see what Toyota Sweden will say after talking to both dealers. Also still waiting for the engine replacement dealer to come back with a specification on exactly what they exchanged.

I'm not really calm about this as you might understand. Advice?!

/sid

[Davrav]

Hello Sid,

So fifth injector not broken then?

The EGR should have been checked as part of the work when the engine was replaced as it is one of the problem indicators.

I guess you will just have to wait and see for now but the engine issues are well documented so there is plenty of evidence to back you up.

With regard to the service intervals, the TSB states that the vehicle needs to have been 'reasonably maintained' - it does not say full Toyota service history.................

[sid_swe]

Hello Sid,

So fifth injector not broken then?

The EGR should have been checked as part of the work when the engine was replaced as it is one of the problem indicators.

I guess you will just have to wait and see for now but the engine issues are well documented so there is plenty of evidence to back you up.

With regard to the service intervals, the TSB states that the vehicle needs to have been 'reasonably maintained' - it does not say full Toyota service history.................

Apparently not. I'm taking it out for a drive tonight, I feel very good about having the Toyota eurocare assistance insurance. It feels like 50/50 getting stuck out in the middle of nowhere.

/sid

[sid_swe]

I got about 20km.

Car packed with whole famiily including our 1 year old plus all stuff for the weekend. Same warning lights of death came on (4x4, VSC, Engine) and car went into "safe" mode. Limping back home and throw all stuff into our older, but reliable, Opel.

Going back to the dealar on monday.....

/sid

[sid_swe]

My last update then....(hopefully)

Toyota Sweden has agreed to pay for the repairs this time also. They've said that they'll replace the EGR free of charge. Thumbs up to Toyota after all. Considering their good will/extended warranties I'm still pro-Toyota and the next car might very well be Japanese also.

/sid