Charliefarlies Guide To The Toyota 2Ad Diesel Engine And Its Issues.

[anchorman]

Good to hear Sid.

[Hoovie]

Good news on how it is being sorted.

All vehicles can have issues, so HOW these issues are dealt with is just as important as the overall quality of the vehicle, so top marks to Toyota for owning the resolution.

[sid_swe]

My last update then....(hopefully)

Last update...what was I thinking...

New EGR valve today. Started my vacation this week so full packing and whole family in the car for a trip to the countryside. This time I got about 30 km, so I guess one could see this as some sort of improvement.....

I forgot to mention that last time the dealer investigated the error codes they read:

P0400

I guess that's why they (Toyota Sweden) decided to go for the EGR valve replacement.

Can anyone please help me guide Toyota Sweden in the right direction. Myself I feel that something must have been overlooked/gone wrong during the engine replacement. It's too much of a coincidence for this problem being a new problem popping up on my way home from the engine swap.

Does the engine control unit need to have some updated firmware during the engine replacement routine? If the new engine behaves differently in some way I suspect that a non updated ECU could result in many strange error codes/ ghost chasing problems.

Any ideas?

/sid

[acetip]

My son has a Lexus with the 2.2 engine in it and ive warned him to keep an eye on the oil and coolant levels. but he takes no notice of what i say.

he was around at mine a couple of weeks ago, so i checked under the bonnet for him.

The oil level was about the half way mark so i topped it up with some of my Mobil ESp 5w 30. the coolant was a little low,but not much. but would have shown even lower with a cold engine.the coolant does not appear discoloured.

the engine cover had a few white marks on it near the coolant tank cap which were easely removed with a damp cloth.

i told him once again to keep checing things.

He was around at mine yesterday afternoon and it was just driving away when i asked him if he had been checking the levels and he just smiled and said no. and drove off.

He had the the Lexus about 4 year i think and its an ex demonstrator with a couple of thoudand on it. Its now just reached 100000 miles so does not have much miliage left on the extended warranty

The car is always serviced at a Toyota dealers.Ive told him to have a word with them before the warranty runs out but if he will i just dont know.

Anyway his last service was done about 9000 miles ago so is due soon for the next one.

Peter....wish I had a Dad like you....he sounds kinda "easy come / easy go" your boy....you've done your bit (for many years....?) Watch his visage change if the engine blows....

Big Kev

I know its an old subject but my sons now sold his Lexus and got a new Merc diesel auto an E type coupe,i think 3 ltr.

He took me for a run in it and its so much queter than the Lexus. You would not know its on very low prophile tyres.

Its got several settings for the suspension.

Only thing i dont like is it being a 2 door which means the doors are that much bigger,dodgy to use in carparks.He tried trading the Lexus in against the Merc but he was told the usuel things as being too thirsty,,known engine problems.

Best offer he got from two dealers £5000.

But a chap he works with gave him £6500 and the money was in the sons account the same day. he had brought it for his wife.

The white marks i mentioned that i found on the engine cover did not show again.

Just as well as it had a 120000 miles plus when he sold it so well past extended warrany miliage.

He had a full valet service at a handwash site he uses localy,before he handed it over, he said it looked as good as the day he first brought it when they had finished it.

[anchorman]

The EGR should have been checked at the time of the engine swap. The TSB tells them so and that it is within the scope of the warranty. Parts that can be associated with the carbon problem can be changed and Toyota will pick up the costs. However, anything that is within specification at that time will not be.

[njp80]

An excellent post and very helpful when coming up against this problem. Thank you.

I am about to have a replacement engine fitted due to high oil consumption: 2007 Rav4 2.2 D-4D XT5 in Kent, UK. 54 000 miles on clock.

The Main dealer has told me I'll be getting a refurbished engine. Initially I didn't like the sounds of this since we bought the car at 38,000 miles which we felt was relatively low mileage; the engine currently runs well with good fuel economy (45-72 mpg on computer depending how we drive).

Given overall our engine has low mileage, my initial preference was to have the current engine fixed rather than a refurbished one which I worry could be an ex-very high mileage unit etc. etc?

Having read through this whole forum post, it sounds as if the refurbished units come from Japan and perhaps have quite a few modifications beyond just different piston rings? In which case, presumably it's better for me to take the replacement refurbished engine rather than ask for ours to be repaired (which it sounds like they'd refuse anyway?).

Are my worries about a refurbished engine relatively unfounded (albeit given the posts by some who have needed >1 replacement engine), or should I argue to keep my current low mileage engine which as far as I know is otherwise good, presumably I paid a bit more for at low mileage, runs well and give good fuel economy?

Any advice greatfully received!

Best wishes

Nick

[Parts-King]

The 3/4 engine might be refered to as a refurbished engine but in all honesty, they are built by Toyota in Toyota's factory and are virtually brand new. Your dealer will not be able to overhaul your engine under the extended warranty, he has a specific path he has to take, otherwise he would be unable to make a claim. Sit back, take the 3/4 engine and worry not, it's not like getting a dodgy refurb off an auction site, it is a full factory exchange unit

Kingo

[anchorman]

You definitely want a refurbished engine and not a repaired one. Don't worry, you will be suitably impressed.

[wardude]

Your doing nothing for my confidence as my engine was repaired, not replaced

[anchorman]

The reason they have stopped mending them in house is because the time it takes is not cost effective as a 30 hour job can easily become 45. The process is complicated and you would know straight away if it had not been done properly - don't worry.

[njp80]

Thank you. Best wishes. Engine on 22nd Oct 2012.

[roger_37]

well done.

[Reidsta]

I seem to have fallen fowl of this issue and what's worse is that I missed the last service and Toyota refused to contribute to the engine replacement.

A couple of weeks ago I put my car into the local dealer to my work as it was sluggish and having flat spots. They charged me a £60 diagnosis fee. They told me they fixed an EGR valve issue, but also believed that I needed a replacement engine. I was asked to go back to the dealer at xfactor 600 miles which I did to be advised I needed a replacement engine. I was told I would be contacted after the dealer worked with Toyota to get it booked in.

I then got a call to say that the car had missed a service(the last one) and unfortunately it s due the next one now and as such they will not contribute. I pushed back based on this thread and now they have offered to cover he cost should the engine be opened and checked and the fault be due to this issue. However, should the problem be dreamed to be us to poor servicing then I will have to pay.

I have asked for clarification on how they will identify what was to blame and am still waiting th answer. I have been quoted between £7000 and £9000 for the repair. The car is a 57 plate TR and not worth anything like this and. Cannot afford to pay the bill should the dealer define the fualt as a maintenance issue, so looks like I have to scrp a 5 year old car. Ridiculous.

[Big Kev]

I seem to have fallen fowl of this issue and what's worse is that I missed the last service and Toyota refused to contribute to the engine replacement.

A couple of weeks ago I put my car into the local dealer to my work as it was sluggish and having flat spots. They charged me a £60 diagnosis fee. They told me they fixed an EGR valve issue, but also believed that I needed a replacement engine. I was asked to go back to the dealer at xfactor 600 miles which I did to be advised I needed a replacement engine. I was told I would be contacted after the dealer worked with Toyota to get it booked in.

I then got a call to say that the car had missed a service(the last one) and unfortunately it s due the next one now and as such they will not contribute. I pushed back based on this thread and now they have offered to cover he cost should the engine be opened and checked and the fault be due to this issue. However, should the problem be dreamed to be us to poor servicing then I will have to pay.

I have asked for clarification on how they will identify what was to blame and am still waiting th answer. I have been quoted between £7000 and £9000 for the repair. The car is a 57 plate TR and not worth anything like this and. Cannot afford to pay the bill should the dealer define the fualt as a maintenance issue, so looks like I have to scrp a 5 year old car. Ridiculous.

Good grief Reidsta.....by what margin did you miss the service in question......9,999 miles or what?

This is obviously Toyota "tightening up" on this engine replacement issue, but is the servicing issue not supposed to be "reasonably serviced".

Big Kev

[CharlieFarlie]

I said I would NEVER get into another conversation on this !Removed! subject BUT.....

Firstly you do not give the total mileage of the car or the distance it has covered and time elapsed since its last service ??? Might help ??

Are you saying the dealer wants to open up the engine ? This is simply against the current policy of replacing the engine and returning the old one to Japan... A £1600 deposit is placed on said old engine and if not returned or returned incomplete that deposit will be forfeited by the Dealer.. In fact the Dealer has I believe ten days to get the old unit shipped "

So if your Dealer opens the engine ...............................................???

Your car needs to have a "Reasonable" service history not nececesarily at a main Toyota Dealer but it should have that history in place.... Sorry without it Toyota can simply wash their hands and walk away though having dealt with them I feel this is unlikely..

The cost of replacing the engine is less than £2500........ I have the paperwork here to absolutely back this up 100%..

The dealer in effect buys the unit from Toyota at cost which of course is very little as these engines are being rebuilt on a production line in Japan... The unit cost was £1252.96.. Dealer then adds labour and any other material costs to the unit and invoices Toyota.. Remember each Dealer is in effect a private Franchised company NOT part of Toyota the parent company.....

The total invoicable amount including every thing.. Engine . Materials gaskets ect ect and labour was £2226.00. There is no mention of VAT on the invoice maybe because its an in house warranty repair but even so 7 to 9K is a bit strong ?

SO.

If they refuse to replace the engine due to your lack of servicing then perhaps a middle ground can be found on cost ?

[Parts-King]

The total invoicable amount including every thing.. Engine . Materials gaskets ect ect and labour was £2226.00. There is no mention of VAT on the invoice maybe because its an in house warranty repair but even so 7 to 9K is a bit strong ?

A full engine used to be 6K, then they started to produce an Optifit, factory re-manufactured engine which as Charlie says is considerably cheaper. I would start a dialogue with the After Sales manager and ask him how / who will be making the decision and based on what facts. One missed service is not going to make a lot of difference in the scheme of things BUT there is no excuse for running out of oil, this MIGHT be what they are refering to, get clarification first

Kingo

[Reidsta]

Hi Charlie, sorry for enticing you to respond to the thread again. I read through this thread in detail and can see you have put a lot of time and energy into it,. I was venting mroe than anythign else by adding my comment :(

The car has done 74k mlles and lets just say that the service has been considerably missed.

The dealwer did state that I would approve the repair and if when they take the enigne apart they would define if it is an issue wiht the maintenance or known issue. My biggest question is even if I had the car serviced. What in the service would have picked up on this issue or stopped it from happening?

[Parts-King]

My biggest question is even if I had the car serviced. What in the service would have picked up on this issue or stopped it from happening?

Nothing. Your car is out of warranty. Toyota have decided that they will extend the warranty on the engine in certain circumstances. There are "conditions" to this and one of the conditions is the car has "reasonable service history"

It could be argued that missing a service, and not checking your oil lead to the engine running out of oil and to put it bluntly, that would be your fault. This could easily be seen when the engine is stripped, and Toyota could refuse to pay out. That is why I am saying to get it clarified before you agree to anything

Kingo

[Davrav]

Don't think running out of oil has been mentioned However, shouldn't there be a low oil warning that shows BEFORE potential damage can be done unless it was a sudden and catastrophic loss?

That being said, if a service interval has been ignored by a big margin, I can see why Toyota are not necessarily prepared to pay anything. Service schedules are there for a reason..........................

[Reidsta]

Hi Kingo,

I have asked Toyota for calrification on wht the failure is and how they intend to determine fault. Although the service was missed I have kept the oil topped up and keep some in the boot as I do a lot of mileage and not once has the oil lught ever come on. It has been about 3 days now and Toyota are yet to reply to my questions, although the dealer states they are working on them. I even asked what would be the implications of not carrying out the work, as if it is just to do regular service and keep all topped up this may be the way I have to go.

[CharlieFarlie]

Hi Charlie, sorry for enticing you to respond to the thread again. I read through this thread in detail and can see you have put a lot of time and energy into it,. I was venting mroe than anythign else by adding my comment :(

The car has done 74k mlles and lets just say that the service has been considerably missed.

The dealwer did state that I would approve the repair and if when they take the enigne apart they would define if it is an issue wiht the maintenance or known issue. My biggest question is even if I had the car serviced. What in the service would have picked up on this issue or stopped it from happening?

I do feel your pain. However if servicing has been "considerably missed" then I'm sorry but you have no come back on Toyota... John points out above its an extended warranty with a few provisos which are really very few indeed.. All cars need proper servicing and without it no manufacturer will honour any warranty...

Its not I feel a case of Toyota dodging the bullets its a case of in this case failure to look after the car ??

I just cannot see how taking the engine apart can be done or at least taken apart at the dealers.. This would or could result in the dealer maybe risking the £1600 deposit ?? Not sure really but if they follow current policy then its real issue .....

John you are of course correct it says on the invoice "Opti fit " which is quite a different thing from a brand new unit...

I wonder though if the Opti fit units will be made available to those who find themselves with problems out of warranty ? Or will it be a brand new unit at 6K plus fitting ?

[CharlieFarlie]

Hi Kingo,

I have asked Toyota for calrification on wht the failure is and how they intend to determine fault. Although the service was missed I have kept the oil topped up and keep some in the boot as I do a lot of mileage and not once has the oil lught ever come on. It has been about 3 days now and Toyota are yet to reply to my questions, although the dealer states they are working on them. I even asked what would be the implications of not carrying out the work, as if it is just to do regular service and keep all topped up this may be the way I have to go.

The implications of not carrying out the work are that it will continue to run badly just as it is now.. The DPNR will I think become blocked and eventually the car will go into limp mode.. At least that is my understanding..

How long and how many miles since its last service ? Sorry to ask again but its kinda hard to get a handle on whether Toyota are not being to helpful or whether the car has been severely neglected ? Not being nosey here just trying to help and advise as best as we can..

[Parts-King]

Yes the Optifit unit is available for retail sale, it has to be the bargain of a lifetime TBH, 3/4 engine including head, built up for £1400 ish

This stripping the engine lark is not going to happen. Who is going to pay the dealer to strip and re-build it to send it back??

You need a face to face conversation with the service manager, questions written down and asked in a firm but polite way

Kingo

[Reidsta]

Thanks both for the info. I am ebarrased to say that the service is 20k pass the mark. It should have had its 65k service and nto it is at 75k. i wil ldiscuss with the dealer about the optifit, but even if i get this with labour, I am pretty much only going to pay the same as what I am goging to lose by dumping the car. For example the Part Ex is about £3.5k if I spend £3k to fix it then I have a car that is worth £500. more.

I think I wouyld rather put the £3k towards a new car and I know I the maintenance issue has not helped, but I would not by a Toyota again.

[Davrav]

Thanks both for the info. I am ebarrased to say that the service is 20k pass the mark. It should have had its 65k service and nto it is at 75k. i wil ldiscuss with the dealer about the optifit, but even if i get this with labour, I am pretty much only going to pay the same as what I am goging to lose by dumping the car. For example the Part Ex is about £3.5k if I spend £3k to fix it then I have a car that is worth £500. more.

I think I wouyld rather put the £3k towards a new car and I know I the maintenance issue has not helped, but I would not by a Toyota again.

Apart from the oil issue, is there anything else wrong with the car? Think I'd be inclined to bite the bullet and get it fixed by whatever means and then keep it running 'til it is worn out. Buy another car, buy another problem...................