Tuv 2011 Reliability Results

[r04drunner1]

Prius wins the exacting German TUV survey report for 2011. And Toyota does exceptionally well, too.

See story here:

Toyota Commentary on TUV 2011 results

Note: most independent sources mentioned the Porsche 911 very favourably - it came joint second. Awww...

[oakridge]

Over the last 13 years we have had 4 new cars; a Freelander, 2 Rover 75s and the Prius. These have accumulated 160,000 miles between with no 'off the road' breakdown whatsoever, just the occasional minor thing like a window refusing to wind up. In the previous 20 years we had 4 Land Rovers, one of which had its 17th birthday in our time and we only had one major breakdown while towing a heavy trailer on the MI. I should say that the Land Rovers were pulling trailers laden with pigs or cattle on a weekly basis, often on rough ground. I do not know whether we have been lucky or it is down to ensuring regular maintenance. A friend did manage to sheer two Land Rover half shafts on separate occasions by repeating the same silly mistake. It is not a difficult job; you do not even have to remove a wheel.

Our first car was unreliable, but it was a 1934 Hillman Minx Coupe which had its 30th birthday while we had it. It cost us the enormous sum of £15 and we had change from £50 after buying the car, insuring it, eight lessons and the test.

Malcolm

[Hybrid Harbour]

Nice to see my Auris Hybrid coming in 2nd place just 0.1% lower than the Prius.

Mine is a year old this week and has been 100% reliable.

[Sagitar]

Is there a link to an English language version of the actual report?

I have seen several references, but they all choose selectively depending upon the source.

[Ancient Nerd]

Is there a link to an English language version of the actual report?

I have seen several references, but they all choose selectively depending upon the source.

There is a TUV press release at here. Not the full report, but a decent summary

[cuius]

Given these appear to be the results from the equivalent of MOT inspections you could argue that Prius owners prepare their cars for the test better than other drivers

[Sagitar]

There is a TUV press release at here. Not the full report, but a decent summary

Thanks, that is very helpful. The report looks like excellent material for the "Lies, damned lies and statistics" merchants. Some of the dates in the report are confusing and no attempt is made to indicate what differences in defect percentages are significant.

The Prius appears only in the 2 to 3 years category and one possible interpretation is that although it gets few faults in the first three years, it gets many more after that.

Glancing across the page, the most reliable vehicle actually appears to be the Porsche 911.

Perhaps the full report is better, but I can see now why several different manufacturers are using the report as the basis for claims that their vehicles are the most reliable.

[Red diesel]

I seem to recall that the Opel/Vauxhall Insignia waas classed as doing very well in this survey/report a couple of years ago.

But alas reports on Insignia reliability subsequently are - errrm shall we say mixed.

Come back after 150 000 miles and we shall see

My point is that these survey results aren't always a perfect illustration of what is happening with cars in the real world.

UK surveys are no better - IS 220/250 Lexuses often do well and im fairly sure that the Mazda 6 did very well in one of these surveys

less than a year ago.

Yet the diesel engines in both cars are completely crap - the Lexus has poor gearing plus poor economy (as a result partially of said gearing) and of course the well known 2.2 head gasket issue. The Mazda meanwhile has big end failure issues plus DPF issues - yet youd expect that

with many of those two cars being sold to fleets - many would be diesels. Surveys don't tend to reflect this - particularly with the Lexus.

In saying this however the Petrol engined Mazda 6s are - mechanically (unfortunately they are partial to a bit of rusting) a very good car

it would seem.

Red diesel

[ph47mf]

I suspect the 911 are reliable because they are always garaged and don't get driven as much as the other cars. I'm happy with my choice so far, again, 200% reliable.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I think it was either Whatcar or Which who are running a new annual survey for UK cars. I completed mine honestly so I have a feeling that the Prius might not do so well over here.

Regarding the TUV report, how many Prii have actually been sold in Germany? Not bl88dy many as diesel and German manufacturers are popular there. In the UK the hybrid has seemed to become very popular - I know of about 5 in my local area alone (6 if you include me :) ). They're now being used by a multitude of people and multitude of purposes, so won't just be limited to low mileage retired types who mollycoddle their pride and joy, and this will now be reflected in annual surveys.

[Ancient Nerd]

The TUV test is pretty much the German equivalent of our MOT, and I think are repeated every two years. So as a means of estimating the reliability of cars less than a few years old, it is close on useless.

If you look at the figures, the vast majority of problems are lighting. That is mostly blown light bulbs that the owner hasn't noticed.

So, as far as the Prius goes, there is minimal information on the Gen III, but presumably more on the Gen III. However, what it really says is that Prius and Porsche owners probably check their lights (amongst other things) before their TUV test. Or they get the car serviced before the test, and ask the dealer to check that the car is OK.

Older cars probably get less attention, with the MOT (TUV) used as a means of identifying what needs to be done. So a higher failure rate, but again mostly light bulbs. Prius and Porsche owners probably stay with main dealer service for longer than most, which I suspect is the main explanation.

I think that reviews like that of Warranty Direct are probably the best, as they measure actal repair rate, not undetected problems.

I agree with Grumpy, that now the Prius is mainstream, its ratings will drop. Certainly it will do so if my response to the Auto Express and other reviews is typical.

[wass]

I seem to recall that the Opel/Vauxhall Insignia waas classed as doing very well in this survey/report a couple of years ago.

But alas reports on Insignia reliability subsequently are - errrm shall we say mixed.

Come back after 150 000 miles and we shall see

My point is that these survey results aren't always a perfect illustration of what is happening with cars in the real world.

UK surveys are no better - IS 220/250 Lexuses often do well and im fairly sure that the Mazda 6 did very well in one of these surveys

less than a year ago.

Yet the diesel engines in both cars are completely crap - the Lexus has poor gearing plus poor economy (as a result partially of said gearing) and of course the well known 2.2 head gasket issue. The Mazda meanwhile has big end failure issues plus DPF issues - yet youd expect that

with many of those two cars being sold to fleets - many would be diesels. Surveys don't tend to reflect this - particularly with the Lexus.

In saying this however the Petrol engined Mazda 6s are - mechanically (unfortunately they are partial to a bit of rusting) a very good car

it would seem.

Red diesel

Interesting to see the comments about the mazda 6 diesel shortfalls, my son in law has one and is a bit of a speed merchant; so far his reports have been good but I wonder if he knows how his fellow mazda 6 owners are fairing.perhaps its a case of ignorance is bliss... I for one wouldnt like to spoil his party.

[Red diesel]

I seem to recall that the Opel/Vauxhall Insignia waas classed as doing very well in this survey/report a couple of years ago.

But alas reports on Insignia reliability subsequently are - errrm shall we say mixed.

Come back after 150 000 miles and we shall see

My point is that these survey results aren't always a perfect illustration of what is happening with cars in the real world.

UK surveys are no better - IS 220/250 Lexuses often do well and im fairly sure that the Mazda 6 did very well in one of these surveys

less than a year ago.

Yet the diesel engines in both cars are completely crap - the Lexus has poor gearing plus poor economy (as a result partially of said gearing) and of course the well known 2.2 head gasket issue. The Mazda meanwhile has big end failure issues plus DPF issues - yet youd expect that

with many of those two cars being sold to fleets - many would be diesels. Surveys don't tend to reflect this - particularly with the Lexus.

In saying this however the Petrol engined Mazda 6s are - mechanically (unfortunately they are partial to a bit of rusting) a very good car

it would seem.

Red diesel

Interesting to see the comments about the mazda 6 diesel shortfalls, my son in law has one and is a bit of a speed merchant; so far his reports have been good but I wonder if he knows how his fellow mazda 6 owners are fairing.perhaps its a case of ignorance is bliss... I for one wouldnt like to spoil his party.

[Red diesel]

Damn smart phones

With regard to the Mazda 6 diesels from what i am hearing they

suffer from oil starvation which causes the big end failures.

I dont know if the later 2.2s have this issue though however they

do have DPF issues. So do lots of modern diesels to be fair.

But Mazda have a specific issue in that their DPF regeneration

works by injecting fuel on the exhaust stroke. The issue is that fuel

can get mixed in with the oil which can cause engine failure if noto

dealt with.

Regular oil changes are thus critical and attention should be paid to

oil levels. If the dipstick on a DPF equipped 6 shows a level of oil

above the max level then it is best to stop using the car until its been

by a Mazda dealer.

Red diesel

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Regular oil changes are thus critical and attention should be paid to

oil levels. If the dipstick on a DPF equipped 6 shows a level of oil

above the max level then it is best to stop using the car until its been

by a Mazda dealer.

Red diesel

And if Mazda dealers are anything like Toyota dealers, then they were probably the ones who over filled the oil in the first place!

By the way, is the Mazda the same engine as the Toyota 2.2D which suffers issues itself? I know of a couple colleagues with Avensis cars who have had their engines replaced under warranty!?! Ouch Toyota. Must cost a bob or two.

[Red diesel]

Grumpy cabbie its fuel that gets mixed with the oil as a

result of the DPF regeneration process on the Mazda

which causes the oil level to raise above the max.

The joys of being an enthusiast who reads up far too much

about cars lol

Red diesel

[r04drunner1]

With regard to the Mazda 6 diesels from what i am hearing they

suffer from oil starvation which causes the big end failures.

I dont know if the later 2.2s have this issue though however they

do have DPF issues. So do lots of modern diesels to be fair.

But Mazda have a specific issue in that their DPF regeneration

works by injecting fuel on the exhaust stroke. The issue is that fuel

can get mixed in with the oil which can cause engine failure if noto

dealt with.

Regular oil changes are thus critical and attention should be paid to

oil levels. If the dipstick on a DPF equipped 6 shows a level of oil

above the max level then it is best to stop using the car until its been

by a Mazda dealer.

Yes, the DPF on Jaguar S-Type diesels was the same. Another reason why I went away from diesels into Prius, when I found that out.

[Red diesel]

With regard to the Mazda 6 diesels from what i am hearing they

suffer from oil starvation which causes the big end failures.

I dont know if the later 2.2s have this issue though however they

do have DPF issues. So do lots of modern diesels to be fair.

But Mazda have a specific issue in that their DPF regeneration

works by injecting fuel on the exhaust stroke. The issue is that fuel

can get mixed in with the oil which can cause engine failure if noto

dealt with.

Regular oil changes are thus critical and attention should be paid to

oil levels. If the dipstick on a DPF equipped 6 shows a level of oil

above the max level then it is best to stop using the car until its been

by a Mazda dealer.

Yes, the DPF on Jaguar S-Type diesels was the same. Another reason why I went away from diesels into Prius, when I found that out.

I looked up a Jaguar forum a few months ago (around November i think) most depressing reading - a 2.7 diesel Jag should be a truly

beautiful car to own - something nice to park up next to the pretend off roaders and 1.2 supercharged (i need to obay EU rules special) 150

bhp boring mobile.

But the dream turns sour due to DPFs - ouch

Red diesel