Ohhhh Bother.. Oil Burning Again ..

[jedi134]

When did you do your oil change, was it around 4.5k miles?

[Jozsef]

What oil is in it Charlie? It should be fully synthetic and if so then stop worrying. The pistons/rings will take up to 10k to bed.

Castrol GTX Magnatec 5w30 fully synthetic.. You may remember My asking if it was suitable on here ? The engine burnt No oil for the first 4 K miles or so and during the last 3 K miles its taken 2 litres.. How can it be that it burns none then starts burning after around 4 thousand miles ??

Charlie.

Charlie,

If Castrol oil, then EDGE 5w-30 fully synthetic, minimum C1 or more. In my opinion, the best engine oil for D-CAT, Mobil 1 ESP 5w-30 full synt. ACEA C2,C3. Low Ash Content, Low Sulphur and Phosphorous content and compatible with Diesel Particulate Filters.

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_743651_langId_-1_categoryId_165581#dtab

...new engine and oil burning.....I'm disappointed and sad...

Jozsef

[acetip]

Someone from i think was Holland posted that he and his friends who owned Toyota diesel engine cars were using oil when using Castrol Edge,but when switching to Mobil 1 oil consumption was greatly reduced.Castrol themselves last year did not approve of Magnatec or Edge in Toyota engines fitted with a DPF.but maybe now they may have improved the spec of hese grades.Before any starts posting and disputing this claim,please do a search on these forums on the subject.i and others have spoken directly with Castrol, and Castrol statements/replies can be seen.

[CharlieFarlie]

When did you do your oil change, was it around 4.5k miles?

Yes Mate and I understand fully where You are going here... But the oil I have used is the correct grade and meets or exceeds the specifications set out by Toyota.. I also asked on Forum if this was a good oil to use or not..

If this oil could be burnt where say Mobil would not the surely the Toyota way of dealing with the whole 2AD engine scenario would have been changed to include an oil change prior to consumption tests being carried out ???

As said above I really really like this car but if I think its going south again I will not be going through the process again as confidence will be shot and to be honest while appreciating greatly what Toyota have done for Me with this car I cant be messing around like this and having doubts as to how long before the cycle starts again........

Charlie.

[jedi134]

I just don't trust any 5w/30 oil. I really don't think it is capable of standing up to the higer temps produced in these moderen low emission engines.

I wonder what oil Toyota put in when they built this engine??

I know of a few people with 5w/30 Oils that the engines have been burning it up, and a change to a 40 grade has done wonders for consumption. Me included.

See what Toyota say about putting a 40 grade oil in, would be interested in what they would say.

[CharlieFarlie]

I just don't trust any 5w/30 oil. I really don't think it is capable of standing up to the higer temps produced in these moderen low emission engines.

I wonder what oil Toyota put in when they built this engine??

I know of a few people with 5w/30 Oils that the engines have been burning it up, and a change to a 40 grade has done wonders for consumption. Me included.

See what Toyota say about putting a 40 grade oil in, would be interested in what they would say.

They would certainly say not to do this !! The engine needs the correct grade of oil in order for that oil to circulate quickly like only an oil of 5W viscosity can do.. To change to say 10w40 may well decrease oil consumption but could have huge detrimental consequences over a long period IE rapid engine wear during cold starts as the 10w would be slower round the engine...

Mate You often refer to 5w30 as rats pee oil but You are missing the point that point being these engines are designed and absolutely require the correct grade and viscosity of oil or damage can and likely will occur..

Modern engine build and design has come on in a major way over the last 15 or so years .. So has the oil We put in them....

Charlie.

[jedi134]

Well it seems the correct oil spec is not working.....Obviously!!

The 5w/40 oil will flow just the same as a 5w/30 oil when cold, but the 5w/40 oil will give you better protection at higher temps without burning away (or burning away less)......Just my opinion I know.....But (and I know a totaly different engine)my 4.2 burned the 5w/30 oil noticably to have to top it up......With a 5w/40 its not touched a drop in 8k miles.....and Toyoya reccomend 5w30 rat pee oil in this engine too.

Now maybe there is now a 5w/30 oil that is up to spec and will not burn away?? Ive read a few posts also that Mobil 1 tends to burn away less that Castrol engine oils?

Why the difference if they are all recomended and the same spec?

Still sorry to hear about you engine, I would be fuming myself :ffs: , a new engine doing the same again? What more can you do??? Replace the engine with an electric motor.

Hope you get it sorted soon.

This is an interesting read

[CharlieFarlie]

Well it seems the correct oil spec is not working.....Obviously!!

The 5w/40 oil will flow just the same as a 5w/30 oil when cold, but the 5w/40 oil will give you better protection at higher temps without burning away (or burning away less)......Just my opinion I know.....But (and I know a totaly different engine)my 4.2 burned the 5w/30 oil noticably to have to top it up......With a 5w/40 its not touched a drop in 8k miles.....and Toyoya reccomend 5w30 rat pee oil in this engine too.

Now maybe there is now a 5w/30 oil that is up to spec and will not burn away?? Ive read a few posts also that Mobil 1 tends to burn away less that Castrol engine oils?

Why the difference if they are all recomended and the same spec?

Still sorry to hear about you engine, I would be fuming myself :ffs: , a new engine doing the same again? What more can you do??? Replace the engine with an electric motor.

Hope you get it sorted soon.

This is an interesting read

Mate You do have good points but if an engine could be burning oil because of its type or viscosity the surely Toyota would perform an oil change before testing and then replacing an engine ??

I'm not fuming or angry at all but disappointed...

I don't care about having to top up every thousand or so miles either but I am concerned that if the engine continues to burn oil then the other components such as DPF EGR (Easily cleaned of course) and catalytic converter will suffer and present bill farther down the line ???

I remain resolute that if it turns out that the engine has to be messed with or even replaced then the car will be advertised ASAP and sold while it still has warranty in place for the next owner...

I would likely replace it with a new or nearly new SR Rav. Or more likely a different make of car as My confidence is low in Toyota's products.....

Their approach and back up is fantastic but if there is a fundamental design flaw with this engine No one will be able to sort it......

Charlie.

[DominicPriestley]

Any news on what Toyota have said Charlie?

[Mistermena]

I'm sorry Charlie to hear about your engine problems mate! God knows I know how that feels all to well. I wrote an email to Castrol about there EDGE oil for the 2AD engine and why they recommended it for this power unit when it wasn't a C2 spec (As stated in the owners manuel) as Mobil 1 ESP was?! I got a very lengthy replay from one of there Chemists/tech which I did post on the forum a while ago.

I'd had misgivings about the Castrol range of oils as I'd also heard (And spoken to my mate Acetip who knows a lot about Castrol oils) that some engines can use more oil than with other brands. The TBN and Viscosity index/Flash point is close between the oils but if I remember correctly the ash content in Castrol was higher. I'm not sure how the Magnitec differs from the EDGE oil apart from the cost of EDGE is much higher. So I have to guess from that the additive package is superior in some way hence the price difference.

I totaly understand (From our conv this morning) how you feel about the car and I have had the same thoughts so many times with the Avensis! I was so tempted to go back to Audi and buy another A6 3.2 but I just (Atm) cant seem to pull myself away from Toyota! As I said to you this morning my chemical (Sniff test) test came back without any issues with the head. So at this present point in time it would seem that I was wrong and Toyota were correct! I will still do more tests (As I've never used one of these b4 and might have not done it correctly) in the coming months in a hope that I remain wrong and can finally enjoy what should be a fantastic car...

[Mistermena]

What oil is in it Charlie? It should be fully synthetic and if so then stop worrying. The pistons/rings will take up to 10k to bed.

Castrol GTX Magnatec 5w30 fully synthetic.. You may remember My asking if it was suitable on here ? The engine burnt No oil for the first 4 K miles or so and during the last 3 K miles its taken 2 litres.. How can it be that it burns none then starts burning after around 4 thousand miles ??

Charlie.

Charlie,

If Castrol oil, then EDGE 5w-30 fully synthetic, minimum C1 or more. In my opinion, the best engine oil for D-CAT, Mobil 1 ESP 5w-30 full synt. ACEA C2,C3. Low Ash Content, Low Sulphur and Phosphorous content and compatible with Diesel Particulate Filters.

http://www.halfords....yId_165581#dtab

...new engine and oil burning.....I'm disappointed and sad...

Jozsef

That was the main reason why I went for ESP over EDGE because of the C2 spec and low ash for the DPF. I could have used Castrol EDGE as I have over 35ltr of the stuff hanging about but still when for the ESP

[Mistermena]

Well it seems the correct oil spec is not working.....Obviously!!

The 5w/40 oil will flow just the same as a 5w/30 oil when cold, but the 5w/40 oil will give you better protection at higher temps without burning away (or burning away less)......Just my opinion I know.....But (and I know a totaly different engine)my 4.2 burned the 5w/30 oil noticably to have to top it up......With a 5w/40 its not touched a drop in 8k miles.....and Toyoya reccomend 5w30 rat pee oil in this engine too.

Now maybe there is now a 5w/30 oil that is up to spec and will not burn away?? Ive read a few posts also that Mobil 1 tends to burn away less that Castrol engine oils?

Why the difference if they are all recomended and the same spec?

Still sorry to hear about you engine, I would be fuming myself :ffs: , a new engine doing the same again? What more can you do??? Replace the engine with an electric motor.

Hope you get it sorted soon.

This is an interesting read

Good read link mate to the oil

I don't think there is a problem with a 5w-30 oil, but what we have to remember that there are so many specs! also when you look at the likes of Motul 300V (Which I use in my VW) oils with its double ester tech and very high TBN numbers and flash point then these are one of the top oils and far better than a cracked synth like Mobil I any day of the week and they come in lots of different grades as well as a 5w-30. The problem with these lubs (300V) is the high ash content that the DPF will not take, or I would have used this in my T-180 as the TBN (Total Base Number) is almost twice as high as EDGE and ESP

Motul ester oil link... http://www.opieoils....engine-oil.aspx

[anchorman]

Can you ask what they used first time Charlie? I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't 5W/30 semi-synthetic.

[Paulus17]

Sorry to go off topic a bit here Charlie,but do all Rav diesels have these problems?

As i recommended a Rav to a mate who would get a diesel version if he chose??

[CharlieFarlie]

Any news on what Toyota have said Charlie?

Today I have spoken at length with the Dealer that fitted the engine And Toyota GB Who have given Me a case number...

Both agree that the engine should not be burning oil..

Both further agree and advise that using any other oil the the stipulated 5W30 semi or fully synthetic oil will not only cause damage to the engine but would also invalidate Any and all warranties in place ...

Another engine oil consumption test now has to take place and if its within the guidelines (It almost certainly is) a second replacement engine will be fitted..

Having contacted Toyota GB I will now either have to go ahead with the test and likely outcome of another replacement engine Or sell the car and pass this Agg onto the next Owner.. The latter I am reluctant to do as I would not like that done to Me...

So here We go again.. I have to take the car to the Midlands for the same routine to start over and then again if and on its present consumption that if means another engine ...

As soon as the above is done the car will be sold. My faith in the car is now shot and I will very likely not purchase another Toyota. Not because of the back up but because having owned mostly Audi's Jaguars and Fords and never having had a major issue with any of them It seems logical to return to one of those Marques ...

Charlie.

[CharlieFarlie]

Can you ask what they used first time Charlie? I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't 5W/30 semi-synthetic.

Yes it is semi synthetic 5W30. It is intended to stay in the engine from day one until the cars next scheduled service which could of course be a couple of thousand or up to around ten thousand miles...

I also asked if using the Castrol GTX Magnatec fully synthetic in 5W30 was the cause of the engine starting to use oil.. This was dismissed out of hand... As it was pointed out that the engine had 5w30 in it already albeit in semi synthetic form...

Charlie.

[CharlieFarlie]

Sorry to go off topic a bit here Charlie,but do all Rav diesels have these problems?

As i recommended a Rav to a mate who would get a diesel version if he chose??

Paul it is the 2.2 AD engines that are the problem so the earlier 2.0 diesel and post 2009 engines that produce 150BHP are apparently sorted...

That said I could not in honesty recommend a friend to buy a Toyota Diesel engined vehicle...

Charlie.

[Mistermena]

I know that the dealer I went to used a full synth oil at build so I left that in for 1000 miles then dropped it and used ESP. So it would seem from a previous post from another forum member that the engine replacement from Japan can still have problems as the dealer fit ones. I'd just like to know (As I'm sure others would) is what the hell is causing so many problems for the 2AD units? This must be costing Toyota a fortune in repacements and dealer labour charges!...

[acetip]

Hi Charlie,as Toyota are now fitting short block/short engine (however you like to describe it) instead of modified parts to the the old block,and if this is a permanent cure for the promblem,as i dont know if anyone has had this done and still experianced issues again,would you not consider giving them one more chance,as it will cost you nothing to give it a try.

[jedi134]

Well all I can say is mine now drinks nothing, using 40 oil, and is solid as a rock. I can see no reason why a 40 could damage any engine its just a grade higher. What oils do these ravs run in very hot climates?

I would tend to be sceptical in what Toyota say but that's just me......especially when they are still having the same problems........charlies engine ain't even reached 10k miles yet?

40 weight oil solved my consumption problem with no ill effects.

Good luck Charles!

O and this should put pay to that rubbish that UK fuel is to blame, as I belive charlies only ran on the best fuel.

Belive what dealerships tell you at your own perril.

By a Landrover ;-)

[dervdave]

A mate (the ex mechanic) has over the years to the present has had quite a number of Toyota diesels Carina x2, Avensis x3 and Verso x4 and only had any engine trouble with one a 57 plate 2.2d Verso ! :)

[CharlieFarlie]

Hi Charlie,as Toyota are now fitting short block/short engine (however you like to describe it) instead of modified parts to the the old block,and if this is a permanent cure for the promblem,as i dont know if anyone has had this done and still experianced issues again,would you not consider giving them one more chance,as it will cost you nothing to give it a try.

Mate My current engine is a Full replacement engine ( 3/4 in Toyota speak ) It is not an engine that was rebuilt at the dealers but a replacement engine that arrived on a crate from Japan........

It was fitted on the 12Th of August 2011

I have spent quite a fair few quid since getting the engine replaced... 1500 quid on wheels and tyre .. various bits and bobs like new sat nav disc and the tuning box a new super power Battery ect ect so to sell is not the most logical thing to do... But there is only so much effort that I can put into a car before just giving it up as a bad job ??

Toyota remain absolutely resolute that it is the poor quality fuel in particular that found at supermarkets.... My car has been run on a mix of both since the engine was done just 7000 miles ago.. I put Shell Vpower in when I can but living where I do its not always available so perhaps I need a car that will tolerate the abuse that putting in the occasional tank of non expensive fuels ...

Charlie.

[jedi134]

Hi Charlie,as Toyota are now fitting short block/short engine (however you like to describe it) instead of modified parts to the the old block,and if this is a permanent cure for the promblem,as i dont know if anyone has had this done and still experianced issues again,would you not consider giving them one more chance,as it will cost you nothing to give it a try.

I belive Charlie had the new engine fitted and blessed by the Toyota gods and it still is burning the holy water.

[jedi134]

No way in Million years am I buying that Toyota BS about the fuel not good enough.... If it is destroying engines they would pass on the repair bills to the petrol companys.

What next? These engines only run on special Toyota fuel, extracted from freshly captured TOYOTA service staff BS??

Who are they trying to kid?

[Molnboman]

I realise in past Years that engines could and often would burn oil until the running in period and often beyond . Especially diesel engine which used to take far longer to run in and also take lots of miles before optimum fuel economy would be reached..

But I thought with these modern engines built to extremely fine tolerances this this is now not always the case..

Many now say there is no need to run engines in at all and just drive normally. I chose to do just this but My style of driving in this car is very steady and I never ever let an engine labour !! So with 7000+ miles it should be fine.. As said above during that first 4 to 4500 miles The engine used no oil at all. This I checked and checked very often as being a pedantic Person I check tyres for condition and pressure ( Cold ) I check the oil and coolant and even the wipers front and rear each and every time I do My long journeys.. So I really do know that No oil was used during those first few thousand miles and now its burning again...

I will call the Dealers tomorrow and explain what is going on if only to cover By backside.. I have carried out a close inspection around and under the engine looking for any leaks.. There are none !!

Charlie.

I had two oil burners in the past....your right, I had a 2003 Mondeo tdci and for the first 10k miles thought it was a two stroke!!.....then after the 10k magically it was sorted and never needed a top up again!....My 2006 Zafira 1.9cdti was different and didn't burn any oil in the first 10k but had a faulty oil pressure sensor.....which it still has after 90k miles!

Must be bumming you righht off!...especially after a replacement engine!....and here was me thinking of a diesel rav4!.......Sorry, I don't really know much about the diesel RAV4's.........is this issue just with the 4.4.....or was the 4.3 the same?

Good Luck

Cheers

A