Ohhhh Bother.. Oil Burning Again ..

[shcm]

but its not much comfort to owners of problematic examples. :)

No, agree it's not and they have my sympathy. I wouldn't like it.

It may also be related to the fact that Toyota themselves admitted they went through a period whether quantity was taking priority over quality and perhaps engine lines really couldn't run at the rate demanded and keep quality to what we've come to expect.

[jedi134]

Just wind forward 3-4 years when all these engines will more than likely be out of warranty, some poor sod is going to end up with a right sole breaker. No one will buy a new engine out of their pocket, the cost will be more than the cars worth. The car will be scrapped. Or mysteriousy set on fire. Petrol/matches.

It will be like the 4.2s dmf problem a 2k repair bill on a 4k car. Only this time the repair bill will be new engine 11k if you could still get them. So an even worse prospect.

[CharlieFarlie]

We have two People fed up with the debate ? Then one of them makes likely the most sensible post on the debate !!

Whatever the fault or its cause We have surely to agree that there is a fundamental problem with the 2AD engine ?

Toyota and the Dealer says fuel.. The bloke on the Internet says it aint but cant say what it is....

It is the one and only engine in the Toyota range that is suffering as far as I'm aware.

Toyota say the diesel is affecting the piston rings and they are sticking.. This allows the oil to seep past and is then burnt in the combustion process.

So there is surely the design fault ? And therefore the reason Why Toyota are holding up their hands and replacing all these blooming engines ??

Now originally they were replacing the pistons and rings in the UK and latterly doing much the same in Japan..

Is it possible that these modified parts are not doing the job ??

Everyone is quick to have a go at Me for forwarding a suggestion as to what is afflicting theses engines.. But I see No one suggesting what the hell is wrong ???

Question... Is it acceptable for an engine fitted with the Dcat system with its Cat converters and DPF to burn some oil without the burning of oil causing other issues ??

Because if it is then I have no problem and don't give a rubber about a few litres of Oil !!

But if its not then I have a problem ???

Let Me just say I have NOT gone all anti Toyota ! And despite it squeaks and rattles I really do think the Rav is a brilliant package far better than a Honda or a BMW ect . But I sadly also would like a car I can rely on and not have to be concerned about..

Charlie.

[dervdave]

But I sadly also would like a car I can rely on and not have to be concerned about..

That is not an unreasonable request and is the main reason I sold the Jag and bought a Toyota :)

[CharlieFarlie]

But I sadly also would like a car I can rely on and not have to be concerned about..

That is not an unreasonable request and is the main reason I sold the Jag and bought a Toyota :)

In 17.000 miles I have not had a single issue or even one tiny rattle from My Jag.....

[dervdave]

But I sadly also would like a car I can rely on and not have to be concerned about..

That is not an unreasonable request and is the main reason I sold the Jag and bought a Toyota :)

In 17.000 miles I have not had a single issue or even one tiny rattle from My Jag.....

Exactly my point my Jag also had 17k on it when I got shot of it

[cabcurtains]

But I sadly also would like a car I can rely on and not have to be concerned about..

No doubt part of a wider debate, but is a 6yr old modern diesel one of these? When you consider just the DPF's/Turbo's/Injectors etc etc let alone the actual block.

[dervdave]

No doubt part of a wider debate, but is a 6yr old modern diesel one of these? When you consider just the DPF's/Turbo's/Injectors etc etc let alone the actual block.

All modern cars are complex but as you suggest potentially theres a lot to go wrong particularly with diesels (over and above manufacturers `duff` motors) at around this age/Ave mileage(6yrs old)

[jedi134]

I like your posts Charlie you bring excitement to an otherwise boring forum....keep up the good work....debate is what its all about after all.

I have added my suggestion of 5w/30 rat pee oils and I still belive in it.

@anchorman

Just out of interest:

How many oil burning ravs have you had in total.

I know you had a 4.2 , a red 4.3 and now this current 2010 model, reading some posts on here have you had 2 other 4.3s that burnt oil?

[acetip]

Most marques of cars have problems with EGR valves :censor: ing up. You only have to look at the likes of Mazda and VW to see that. Its strange that Toyota has problems with there EGR valves it means that the whole engine is :censor: and other car just either need a new valve or a clean. I agree that with what you've been saying (And pointing out over 2 years) that there must be a design floor somewhere. I've spent most of the day trying to find out more on the fuels that we NOW have here compaired to the rest of the World and I cant seem to find anything about our diesel being sh@t and the rest have a better standard!!!...

Hi old mate,cant undrestand why our fuels should be inferior to any other countries.It meets the spec that recommened in the handbooks.Does not say you should use higher grades like V power etc.

Dont know about diesel in the USA & Canada but their unleaded is only 90 octane compared to our 95.

I understood that vehicle engines have different spec to allow for conditions and the quality of fuel to which ever country they are supplied to.Are the fuels so bad in this country that Toyota cant supply these engine to run without needing major repairs after running a few thousand miles.

You cant tell me me our the fuels in this country are inferior to those in third world countries.

Its just a load of cr##.

Ive just done a search on USA diesel quality and WIKY states that their diesel cetane rating is lower than the uk and Continental cetane ratings.Its also ultra low sulpher content as ours is.

[jedi134]

This fuel business is all brought on by the bull dealerships talk, hence my dislike for them. They have only their silly selves to blame.....Maybe UK air quality is the problem?

They are nothing but sales oriented, everyone in there is a sales person trying to hit their targates.

The techies just follow scripts from dealership HQ.

[shcm]

Only this time the repair bill will be new engine 11k if you could still get them. So an even worse prospect.

Not scaremongering again? ;) :). There's usually an agreement that a component supplier or vehicle maker have to support parts for at least 10 years AFTER the end of production. Possibly OK with mechanical bits, where you still have the tooling. Try doing it for stuff with electronics components in. It's a pain, but it has to be done. Would you expect to get spare parts for a phone you had 10 years ago??

We have surely to agree that there is a fundamental problem with the 2AD engine ?

My opinion is you can't say that because we are not in possession of all the data. If, (big if), the problem was due to, say, a manufacturing process/tolerance problem with say the oil rings, then it is hardly a "fundamental problem". It's somebody who hasn't got their manufacturing correct.

If however, say the design is such that the rings have to be made so precisely (and therefore probably expensively), then for automotive engineering (which has been described as near aerospace reliability and quality for commodity cost) you would have to question the design process and the "nouse" of the Engineers.

Having said that, it may be that to meet all the engine specs, they had no choice.

(above all just hypothetical)

The bloke on the Internet says it aint but cant say what it is....

And we probably can't. While it may seem simple, chances are it isn't. Like I said previously, things sometimes can get quite complex due to other factors and because of that Mr T may not have 100% proof of the cause. I've been there myself. You can give confidence limits - very good confidence limits of a fix, but it's no guarantee you've caught the problem. You have to collect lots of data and do lots of tests sometimes. Sometimes that is almost impossible.

Without having the ear of Toyota Engineering, we will probably never know the full story. Even if somebody did have their ear, they probably couldn't post it on an open forum.

Is it possible that these modified parts are not doing the job ??

It's possible. You can think you've fixed something, when you haven't really found the root cause. It's also possible manufacturing process slipped again. It's also possibly you've just been very unlucky.

Everyone is quick to have a go at Me for forwarding a suggestion as to what is afflicting theses engines.. But I see No one suggesting what the hell is wrong ???

I'm not having a go Charlie , but you may be asking a question that we can't answer with 100% certainty.

Question... Is it acceptable for an engine fitted with the Dcat system with its Cat converters and DPF to burn some oil without the burning of oil causing other issues ??

What do Toyota say?

All this is one example of why I try to make a rule of not buying a vehicle until it has been in full production for at least 12 months and that is probably optimistic. 18 months - 2 years might be better. Knowing the industry, it can take that long to accept the problem, find the fix and get it into production. It does go quicker sometimes but.....

How long has the Evoque been out?

[jedi134]

Not scaremongering again? ;) :).

I would not dream of doing such a thing

But take this scenario:

I have just bought a 2007 rav4 2.2 out of warranty.....Toyota says sorry sir the warranty ended a while ago............My Rav4 needs a new engine!!!

How much will this engine cost me bearing in mind I only paid 7K for the car???????????

I could take my chances with a 2nd hand engine with more than likely the same fault?

This is like the DMF faliure but on a bigger costly scale.

Have any of these engines actually reached 112K mile yet?

[Mistermena]

Not scaremongering again? ;) :).

I would not dream of doing such a thing

But take this scenario:

I have just bought a 2007 rav4 2.2 out of warranty.....Toyota says sorry sir the warranty ended a while ago............My Rav4 needs a new engine!!!

How much will this engine cost me bearing in mind I only paid 7K for the car???????????

I could take my chances with a 2nd hand engine with more than likely the same fault?

This is like the DMF faliure but on a bigger costly scale.

Have any of these engines actually reached 112K mile yet?

I understand were you're coming from with this as the cost of a new engine would be higher than the cost of the car!!! My 1st engine lasted 100k befor it was replaced, but I've no idea at what point it really did give up the ghost as I was the 2nd owner of the car. All I know is the date it was replaced by the dealer. My guess (And a shot in the dark) is its more down the the EGR coking up and buggering up the pistons with cr@p! But thats a wild guess as I've said

[jedi134]

I understand were you're coming from with this as the cost of a new engine would be higher than the cost of the car!!! My 1st engine lasted 100k befor it was replaced, but I've no idea at what point it really did give up the ghost as I was the 2nd owner of the car. All I know is the date it was replaced by the dealer. My guess (And a shot in the dark) is its more down the the EGR coking up and buggering up the pistons with cr@p! But thats a wild guess as I've said

Thats a fair point about the EGR`s

All that crap is being sent back into the engine in order to help reduce emmissions, but its the poor old 5w/30 eco rat pee oil thats suposed to suspend all the extra soot within its self.... How can this oil cope with all this? Eventually it will break down and be non lubricating in my opinion....

I think an oil analaysis such be done just to see what state this oil is in?

[MarsKy]

This is the "Hotel California" forum - you can check out anytime you want, but you can never leave...

Anyway, Disco forums recommend Wynn's EGR Cleaner

Edit: I suspect the manual clean pinned in the forum would probably be more thorough though.

[Mistermena]

I understand were you're coming from with this as the cost of a new engine would be higher than the cost of the car!!! My 1st engine lasted 100k befor it was replaced, but I've no idea at what point it really did give up the ghost as I was the 2nd owner of the car. All I know is the date it was replaced by the dealer. My guess (And a shot in the dark) is its more down the the EGR coking up and buggering up the pistons with cr@p! But thats a wild guess as I've said

Thats a fair point about the EGR`s

All that crap is being sent back into the engine in order to help reduce emmissions, but its the poor old 5w/30 eco rat pee oil thats suposed to suspend all the extra soot within its self.... How can this oil cope with all this? Eventually it will break down and be non lubricating in my opinion....

I think an oil analaysis such be done just to see what state this oil is in?

A very good point my mate about the 5w-30 (Or as VW call it LongLife) oil as it is thinner (Top end 30 weight) to cope with the soot in order to extend drain intervals! But as you said that if the EGR is chucking out more than the oil was designed to take then it stands to reason that its gonna get thick and break down sooner than it should! I might send a sample of my oil off to Millers in West Yorkshire for analaysis when I do the oil change over the weekend and see what condition its in

I wonder what "Kingo" would comment of this thread from a main dealers point of view?? Time to jump in mate

[Mistermena]

Most marques of cars have problems with EGR valves :censor: ing up. You only have to look at the likes of Mazda and VW to see that. Its strange that Toyota has problems with there EGR valves it means that the whole engine is :censor: and other car just either need a new valve or a clean. I agree that with what you've been saying (And pointing out over 2 years) that there must be a design floor somewhere. I've spent most of the day trying to find out more on the fuels that we NOW have here compaired to the rest of the World and I cant seem to find anything about our diesel being sh@t and the rest have a better standard!!!...

Hi old mate,cant undrestand why our fuels should be inferior to any other countries.It meets the spec that recommened in the handbooks.Does not say you should use higher grades like V power etc.

Dont know about diesel in the USA & Canada but their unleaded is only 90 octane compared to our 95.

I understood that vehicle engines have different spec to allow for conditions and the quality of fuel to which ever country they are supplied to.Are the fuels so bad in this country that Toyota cant supply these engine to run without needing major repairs after running a few thousand miles.

You cant tell me me our the fuels in this country are inferior to those in third world countries.

Its just a load of cr##.

Ive just done a search on USA diesel quality and WIKY states that their diesel cetane rating is lower than the uk and Continental cetane ratings.Its also ultra low sulpher content as ours is.

So I wonder what problems the Yanks have with there oil burners? Is this 2AD engine fitted to any of there monster trucks?

[jedi134]

Just google "toyota engine failures" to see what problems they are having over there.....Lexus too.

Sludge

Burning oil

Valve springs

the list is endless

[Mistermena]

Just google "toyota engine failures" to see what problems they are having over there.....Lexus too.

Sludge

Burning oil

Valve springs

the list is endless

Oh happy days! not

I'm goona buy a Fiat! At least I know they are :censor:

[dervdave]

Just google "toyota engine failures" to see what problems they are having over there.....Lexus too.

Sludge

Burning oil

Valve springs

the list is endless

To be fair in this case its Toyota petrol engines

[cabcurtains]

There are probably 100,000,000 Toyota's in the US, i'm pretty sure the locals have managed to wreck a few.

[Mistermena]

This is the "Hotel California" forum - you can check out anytime you want, but you can never leave...

Anyway, Disco forums recommend Wynn's EGR Cleaner

Edit: I suspect the manual clean pinned in the forum would probably be more thorough though.

I've got "Hotel California" playing in my head now! lol... I've not seen the Wynn's EGR cleaner befor, but I guess its similar to lots of other brands that are out on the market! But deff worth a look at

I'm starting to think that shorter oil drain intervals could help with the 2AD engine. Say 5-6k

[Mistermena]

I see Kingo popped in for a while on the thread! and then popped out again! Guess he's not gonna be drawn on this subject

[cabcurtains]

I see Kingo popped in for a while on the thread! and then popped out again! Guess he's not gonna be drawn on this subject

Reading some of the negativity he's probably heading outside to check the brand above the door.