New Avensis

[dervdave]

I like it

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/firstdrives/277147/toyota_avensis_uk_drive.html

[Heidfirst]

& for those not doing enough mileage for a diesel to make financial sense at least the Avensis still has the option for a relatively simple 1.8 petrol.

It's getting harder to find simple petrol engines in competitors' cars - at least Ford, Vauxhall & VW have all moved to smaller, turboed petrol engines to keep emissions down & fuel economy up. But turbos imo are just another potentially expensive point of failure ...

[cabcurtains]

They do look nice, the ones with the LED's and HIDS/Xenons more so, still needs to be the tourer though. The saloon has a heavy arse to me.

[Red diesel]

Yes the Tourer does look better then the saloon, the half leather in the Auto Express photos looks well too.

However if the "uncomplicated" 1.8 petrol doesn't have a turbo - won't it struggle for performance in the big Avensis body?.

Unfortunately a lot of petrol engines are being downsized now - but Ford are completely taking the michael with a 1.0 3 cylinder petrol engine with

turbo for the Focus - and the C Max. Id be expecting serious reliability issues with that engine at high miles - it will be pretty highly stressed at 123 bhp

or whatever trying to pull a C max about the place. I thought Skoda had gone too far already with a 1.2 petrol engine in an Octavia.

Personally i like the idea of the 160 bhp 1.8 turbo petrol in the Volkswagen Passat - its a nice engine size/power combination - 160 bhp from a 1.8 turbo is relatively unstressed imo. 200 bhp on a 2.0 turbo petrol like the Mk 5/6 Golf Gti is okay too - again not overly stressed.

But alas - manufacturers give too options - a stupidly small engined petrol turbo or a diesel with a DPF - i forsee the following in a TV Guide

in 2017 - 8,30 pm BBC 2 Watchdog - Ford owners facing 10 grand engine replacement costs - Anne Robinson investigates - lol.

Red diesel

[Heidfirst]

However if the "uncomplicated" 1.8 petrol doesn't have a turbo - won't it struggle for performance in the big Avensis body?.

2.0 D4D 126 DIN hp

1.8 V-matic 147 DIN hp

2.2 D4D 150 DIN hp

Of course it will drive differently with less torque & peak power further up the rev. range but imo it won't struggle (but nor will it beat a 335D ^_^ ).

I notice that Mazda still do 1.8 & 2.0 litre petrols for the 6.

[Heidfirst]

double post - anybody know how to delete?

[cabcurtains]

The 1.8 is 125 (2.0) and 145 Kgs (2.2) lighter than the diesels, its quite refreshing now and again to drive a revvy petrol, we have a 1.6 Focus hire car at work and its nice to drive. So quiet compared with the diesel.

[Red diesel]

I don't doubt that the Avensis 1.8 valvematic is perfectly capable, it will of course do the job.

My concern though is that it will just feel "okay" and that it would need the backside driven off it to get the performance.

Personally as already mentioned - my preference is for a 1.8 petrol with a turbo at say 160/170 bhp or the 2.0 turbo at 180 to 200 bhp.

Im happy to have a turbo - i think on a 1.8 to 2.0 litre petrol car - having a turbo isn't a massive issue - its something im happy to live with.

They can drink a bit mind you - but if i can knock 60 to 70 000 miles (and maybe more) from (say) a Volvo S60 2.0T costing 2 grand - then frankly

im not going to lose excessive beauty sleep about just getting 30 mpg from it.

Obviously S60s have their issues like any car - but i understand that on post 02 cars - the ETM issues were addressed - and i don't mind

changing things like suspension and what not. I only put it in as an example of how how i think - regarding the whole what type engine is best for

a reliability and nice driving compromise.

Red diesel

[Red diesel]

But back to the Avensis - is Toyota excluding some customers by not making the car particularly enjoyable to drive.

I completely get the whole "fuss free ownership, good on the Motorway, low emissions and running costs etc".

But imo a car can be all this and still be really good to drive, i think the whole "customer focus on fuss free ownership, motorway cruising, low emissions and running costs" is just a nice way of saying - we couldn't be bothered going all out to make this a really enjoyable car to

drive and own (because its too dear).

I suppose my car enthusiast tendencies are getting in the way of objective thought lol

Red diesel

[cabcurtains]

A petrol with a light sprinkling of turbo boost is a very nice drive and probably the perfect combination IMO, i can’t see a petrol Avensis buyer giving a monkeys though.

With their main markets being America and Japan we won't get an interesting family car here, plus nobody would buy it. Company car land is sewn up by the boring germans or cheap Ford/Vauxhall's.

Saab and Volvo not a great success!

[Red diesel]

A petrol with a light sprinkling of turbo boost is a very nice drive and probably the perfect combination IMO, i can’t see a petrol Avensis buyer giving a monkeys though.

Good point - i don't know if you saw my 2nd post (where i tried to bring it back to the Avensis - since i took it off topic - sorry) - but i did concede my

car enthusiast tendencies got in the way of objective thought.

But a lot of the Avensis target audience will be the guys going for 1.2/1.4/1.6 turbo charged petrol engines in a big car with other makers such as Ford - because its good on fuel compared to the big 1.8. Yet no DPFs which is handy for those doing lots of town driving.

Red diesel

[cabcurtains]

Its just back to the same thing, a petrol head would not buy an Avensis. Even a 400BHP 40 MPG car.

The whole small engine turbo is interesting, a Mondeo 1.6T does 44MPG, Insignia 1.6T 39 and an Avensis 1.8 does 42 so not a lot in it. The road tests have suggested the 1.6T is not good on fuel in real life either, sounds just like modern turbo diesel issue again. Great on a rolling road but not so good in normal usage.

[Heidfirst]

& I'm going to say pretty much more of the same - you don't buy an Avensis if you are looking for sportscar performance or handling.

(I actually bought mine over a Vectra despite a worse deal because whilst the Vectra drove better the cabin was an incredibly gloomy place to spend time

Personally I think that they are probably ruling out more buyers by not providing a hatchback - I note that Ford now offer the Mondeo in h/back or estate - no saloon.

imo ~150 hp in an Avensis is adequate - let's face it on our roads you aren't going anywhere quick anyway

My objection to lower capacity turbos is the £1000+ cost of fixing them when/if the turbo goes (& if you've only spent £2000 on the car ... ).

If you're a rep/fleet manager then it'll probably be under warranty so not too much of a problem & it's more likely to affect the 2nd owner/private buyer keeping a car longer.

Only time will tell though.

[cabcurtains]

Avensis 1.8 V-Matic - 144 BHP - 133 LBS - 43 MPG - 1375 KGS

Insignia 1.4 Turbo - 138 BHP - 147 LBS - 49 MPG - 1500 KGS

49MPG, not in a million years!

I dont see how the small turbo works here? The stats only show a marginal improvement but in real life would it be any better?

[T5NELtim]

Avensis 1.8 V-Matic - 144 BHP - 133 LBS - 43 MPG - 1375 KGS

Insignia 1.4 Turbo - 138 BHP - 147 LBS - 49 MPG - 1500 KGS

49MPG, not in a million years!

I dont see how the small turbo works here? The stats only show a marginal improvement but in real life would it be any better?

I think use of turbo allows the engine to run in a more eco way for the combined/urban cycle tests. With a turbo car you do 'sort of' have the choice of how much turbo you use by short changing and gentle throttle - so you can (for the purposes of gaming CO2 figures) run a 1.6T virtually as a normally aspirated 1.6. WIth a 1.8 it is always a 1.8. Reality is of course in real world driving you will use the turbo and I bet that many people will not get the economy out of these engines. I expect they will also be quite enjoyable to 'thrash' when the turbo kicks in.

Blame HMRC for this to some extent

[cabcurtains]

Thats the point, more fake figures! I hate fake, only one answer

The 1.4T is slower than the Avensis and the torque wont feel like boost, just another emission based load rubbish.

[Nallen132]

Interesting thread this is turning out to be, I have just bought a 10 plate 1.8 avensis CVT and really enjoying the ride, pulls nicely when asked to, and is so smooth. Had a bit of play in sport mode, the revs jump instantly to about 3k and the car certainly does not hang about, and handles quite neutrally. I have come from volvo s40 2.0 diesel manual and although the volvo is built well and is good to drive the ride is very hard, much prefer the ride in the avensis.

done a lot of town driving and a little A road, computer reports 36mpg, not bad me thinks..