Italian Tune-Up

[Springy]

I have just read Dale's (Keep on Trucking) sticky post, it is very informative given my recent probs. My heart wants to replace my diesel with a petrol, but my head is trying to balance the loss of dosh with px with the potential cost of future problems with the car.

On to the subject -

The post states that the revs should be taken to near the red line once per week, this sounds scary to me (I don't like loud noises!) - would this just be one quick blip to 5k revs? Is there the potential for damage or are the engines well engineered to cope with this?

Cheers,

Neil.

[cabcurtains]

Provided the car is up to temperature and has oil and water at the right level, driving it to the red line should be no problem. This is recommended to clear all the soot and crap the accumulates in the EGR/Exhaust etc. If you do it and a cloud of grey soot flies out then thats job done, pootling around and not revving it up leads to other potential issues.

When a Diesel is MOT'd they are revved to the red line to test the emissions, cars can fail if all the crap is stuck in the system.

If your not used to driving it hard the noise wont sound nice but it needs to be done.

Do it in the day time and see what comes out, it may be a little reluctant to hit the red line but if a cloud of soot comes out the car should rev more easily. It should be several runs not just a quick blip, it wont have the desired affect. Find a 17yr old Boy if you dont want to do it yourself, they will have no issue giving it some hammer! ;)

Best done in 2nd as you will be flying in 3rd!

[dervdave]

, this sounds scary to me (I don't like loud noises!) -

BANG ! :blowup: :blowup: :blowup:

[Mistermena]

In my view it doesn't have to be RED LINED! ....After the engine is at operating temp you could go for a long motorway run and within the gears take the car to 4000rpm. This should be enough to do the job and get the DPF hot enough to blow the !Removed! out of it. Just make sure the oil is in good condition and filled to the correct mark and away you go...

[cabcurtains]

In my view it doesn't have to be RED LINED!... After the engine is at operating temp you could go for a long motorway run and within the gears take the car to 4000rpm. This should be enough to do the job and get the DPF hot enough to blow the sh!t out of it. Just make sure the oil is in good condition and filled to the correct mark and away you go...

What DPF?????

This all gets confusing for people, the D-Cats and non D-Cats! The non D-Cats have a filter as part of the Cat and they dont seem to cause any issues. The D-Cats have the lovely 5th injector that has its re gen cycles.

I know on our non D-Cat Verso when it has a short high revving blast she blows a load of soot. Even though it does a 120 mile motorway run twice a week.

[Springy]

I took the plunge and, whilst stationary, gave it some welly (in an Asda car park - it turned a few heads) and it blew a small cloud of soot out, even though I have only had the new engine for a month. So, the redlining will be part of a weekly routine from now on.

[cabcurtains]

Its supposed to be done when moving as the engine is under load, revving it up in Asda is your call but may result in some very strange looks!

[t-spiritpete]

I wouldn't recommend anyone to "redline" any engine whilst stationary as damage can take place.

The so called Italian Tuneup should take place with the engine under load, ie The most ideal place would be a long hill where you can keep the engine between 3000 to 4000 rpm for a couple of minutes in 3rd gear, if you don't have any hills in your area then a good blasts on the motorway in 3rd gear will be almost as good. The general rule is don't plod around trying for the best MPG all the time with any modern diesel but if you do then the Italian tuneup is a must!

Someone I know has recently bought a Skoda Roomster Diesel and after several visits back to Skoda due to poor running they told him "it's not meant for town driving Sir" and he needs to take it down the Motorway once a week, .... how mad is that! He now has to go on the Motorway when he doesn't need or want to just to keep the car running right. These Euro regulations are not achieving what they were meant to achieve, ie cutting down pollution as the crap still comes out somewhere else on the planet if not in the city streets.

Pete.

[Mistermena]

In my view it doesn't have to be RED LINED!... After the engine is at operating temp you could go for a long motorway run and within the gears take the car to 4000rpm. This should be enough to do the job and get the DPF hot enough to blow the !Removed! out of it. Just make sure the oil is in good condition and filled to the correct mark and away you go...

What DPF?????

This all gets confusing for people, the D-Cats and non D-Cats! The non D-Cats have a filter as part of the Cat and they dont seem to cause any issues. The D-Cats have the lovely 5th injector that has its re gen cycles.

I know on our non D-Cat Verso when it has a short high revving blast she blows a load of soot. Even though it does a 120 mile motorway run twice a week.

I should have been a little more clear in my post as I was referring in general to all diesels need to be given a good hard drive! and this includes cars fitted with DPF...

[Mistermena]

In my view it doesn't have to be RED LINED!... After the engine is at operating temp you could go for a long motorway run and within the gears take the car to 4000rpm. This should be enough to do the job and get the DPF hot enough to blow the !Removed! out of it. Just make sure the oil is in good condition and filled to the correct mark and away you go...

What DPF?????

This all gets confusing for people, the D-Cats and non D-Cats! The non D-Cats have a filter as part of the Cat and they dont seem to cause any issues. The D-Cats have the lovely 5th injector that has its re gen cycles.

I know on our non D-Cat Verso when it has a short high revving blast she blows a load of soot. Even though it does a 120 mile motorway run twice a week.

I should have been a little more clear in my post as I was referring in general to all diesels need to be given a good hard drive! and this includes cars fitted with DPF...

I wouldn't recommend anyone to "redline" any engine whilst stationary as damage can take place.

The so called Italian Tuneup should take place with the engine under load, ie The most ideal place would be a long hill where you can keep the engine between 3000 to 4000 rpm for a couple of minutes in 3rd gear, if you don't have any hills in your area then a good blasts on the motorway in 3rd gear will be almost as good. The general rule is don't plod around trying for the best MPG all the time with any modern diesel but if you do then the Italian tuneup is a must!

Someone I know has recently bought a Skoda Roomster Diesel and after several visits back to Skoda due to poor running they told him "it's not meant for town driving Sir" and he needs to take it down the Motorway once a week, .... how mad is that! He now has to go on the Motorway when he doesn't need or want to just to keep the car running right. These Euro regulations are not achieving what they were meant to achieve, ie cutting down pollution as the crap still comes out somewhere else on the planet if not in the city streets.

Pete.

I think my good friend Pete has this one down to a tee! Using a hill so the car is under good load would be one of the best ways to blow the !Removed! out of the bugger!... But as said, these emission for modern oil burners is a bit of a joke if in order to maintain the smooth running of your car you have to razz the fu@k out of it! which in turn puts lots of lovely toxic gasses into the atmosphere which the emissions control were trying to stop in the 1st place!!!... Oh how I love a modern diesel! Bring back the old Citron ZX with the fab XUD power lump. :)

[Springy]

I wouldn't recommend anyone to "redline" any engine whilst stationary as damage can take place.

Someone I know has recently bought a Skoda Roomster Diesel and after several visits back to Skoda due to poor running they told him "it's not meant for town driving Sir" and he needs to take it down the Motorway once a week, .... how mad is that! He now has to go on the Motorway when he doesn't need or want to just to keep the car running right. These Euro regulations are not achieving what they were meant to achieve, ie cutting down pollution as the crap still comes out somewhere else on the planet if not in the city streets.

Pete.

Ok, point taken and understood re Italianising whilst under load, peeps.

As for the maximising mpg around town, I agree - these rules + regs are making diesels a total no-no for, I suspect, the majority of drivers, particularly taxis. I have been proudly mouthing off in work about how my mpg has gone from 35 to 42 mpg just by avoiding the use of brakes, i.e. anticipating red lights, slowing down well before you get to the end of a queue, etc. And what was the result? A car whose inner workings resembled that of a chimney sweep's pockets. (I just made that up, after a couple of pints and a bottle of Pinot Grigio - I feel quite proud!). These dpfs, all they seem to do is take the small bits of soot, combine them in to bigger lumps and then spew them out in to the environment. Still, I suppose they can't be breathed in then. Diesel engine designers should concentrate on burning the fuel more completely and efficiently rather than having to deal with the aftermath, i.e. soot.

Bedtime,

Neil.

[Cyker]

Totally agree; The sad fact is modern common rail systems already produce very little soot compared to older TDIs, and if they re-introduced air-injection the soot levels would be almost nil. Even going to biodiesel or V-Power cuts down soot production massively on current engines.

The biggest problem with diesel right now is NOx production due to the very high combustion temperatures, which is why we have stupid crap like EGRs (Which reduce NOx but make everything else worse!)

But frankly, we're well overdue to some more futuristic tech; Someone needs to invent a better way of storing electricity so we can have the torque and power of electric motors with the range of diesels!

Diesels do need to be used tho'; They work best under load and idling around town doesn't put them under load.

This is why I'm always saying the in the Yaris forum that the 1.0VVTi is better for pure town driving (for everything else the D4D wins :P)

[Konrad C]

My view on the diesel regen and associated emissions technology, is that it is a form of back door way to please the rule setters by saying my car is clean and meets the required standard, then fly tipping the muck in one go at a later time (when the car is older).

If the car is tested to included the regen cycle, I bet it would be as bad as car without the DPF.

I drive a petrol which averages 36mpg(in town), so I don't miss the diesel extra economy if I have to put up with the other issues that diesels seem to have.

Also Springy should drive the car instead of revving it in the supermarket carpark - the airflow will cool the engine and the induction will get more air blowing through the engine, as well as putting the engine under proper load as mention earlier.

Thats my view.

[Konrad C]

My view on the diesel regen and associated emissions technology, is that it is a form of back door way to please the rule setters by saying my car is clean and meets the required standard, then fly tipping the muck in one go at a later time (when the car is older).

If the car is tested to included the regen cycle, I bet it would be as bad as car without the DPF.

I drive a petrol which averages 36mpg(in town), so I don't miss the diesel extra economy if I have to put up with the other issues that diesels seem to have.

Also Springy should drive the car instead of revving it in the supermarket carpark - the airflow will cool the engine and the induction will get more air blowing through the engine, as well as putting the engine under proper load as mention earlier.

Thats my view.

PS. Many years (decades) ago I did an italian tune up to clear a rough running engine - I was driving in 1st gear on a road, and came up to a Police speed check. He heard my engine pointed the speed gun and - did nothing! I was only doing 25 mph in a 30 zone. What could he do? Nothing, so I drove merrily by. :P

[shuggler]

would it be worthwhile doing this with a car thats only done 15000 ?

[dervdave]

would it be worthwhile doing this with a car thats only done 15000 ?

Every week you should give the engine a bit of a `clear out`, ie a steep hill, second or third gear and plenty throttle for a couple of hundred yards. ;)

[peterbalcombe]

I am not sure if my car has a DPF or not. It is a manual T4 D-D4D 2.2 (150) diesel estate (current shape) first registered April 2009, engine number 2AF546....... . Is there an easy way to tell? Having read all about failing head gaskets, and the dangers of blocked injectors etc I have recently treated it to a can of BG244 and certainly the running does seem smoother but that could be just an impression. Although my regular winter mileage is small and includes a lot short journeys I chose the car / engine because in the summer I tow a caravan and I have always liked turbo diesels for this. I imagine towing a caravan would be considered beneficial in helping clean out the tubes! I have been concerned about low mpg (very low 30's showing on the dial) this winter and am hoping this will improve as warmer weather arrives. Current mileage on the car is just short of 37000 (I am the 2nd owner). I do take the car for a periodic run on our local roads keeping the revs higher to try to keep everything unclogged (there is a distinct shortage motorways in Norfolk!) and am hoping this, a planned administration of BG244 during the course of every winter and at least a couple of good long runs with a caravan on the back every summer will keep all well. You will hear if it doesn't!

[Jamesbelfast]

What also helps is to take the car for a good run and on return let it idle until the radiatior fan cuts in and out a few times - only then will the engine be fully at high temperature plus it also gives you a chance to check if the fans works.

[shuggler]

Tried this at the weekend 2nd gear red lined checked the mirrors no smoke nuffin??

[Adam C]

I have a theory on these diesels which I feel is their biggest producer of the exhaust soot - turbo lag.

Years ago I remember seeing a then-new Renault Laguna estate (on an 02 plate) accelerating away from traffic lights I was walking past. As the driver went up to 2nd gear it chucked out some black smoke. At first I felt this was a problem, turned out to be normal for diesels, we all see it when the driver is just getting on the gas, especially if they 'give it some'. As almost all diesel engines these days are turbocharged, they'll inevitably breathe out black smoke which is unburnt fuel. This is - I feel - all the soot that you see being emitted from diesel engined cars as they're trying to spool up the turbos. However they're designed to do this as they need exhaust emissions to run the turbos.

I used to run a diesl car (alongside my Yaris) last year, Corsa Life ecoflex CDTi, I hardly noticed it produce much diesel smoke however I knew the car would've been emitting it. I had seen it twice under hard acceleration, although that had followed some pootling around. With that car you could feel when it needed to be revved as it was lumpy whilst cruising at 30mph in 4th. Might be because it was a Vauxhall though!

A few months ago I've seen my first smokey Yaris D-4D. Guess until turbo lag is completely eliminated, all diesels will smoke. However I remember a small point I read in a car mag years ago that a company was thinking of an electric-driven turbocharger. Though that same magazine claimed Honda wanted to make a high-revving diesel . .

What are your thoughts?

[Jas16]

in my experience, with the 06 Focus 1.8tdci it was a case of smoking under heavy load at low <2k rpm, but with the 56 Avensis it is the opposite, it smokes more at higher revs, as if it is cleaning itself out, but the Focus was more of a common thing, I never had the feeling it cleared itself out, much rather it always smoked under load esp in 2nd gear

[cabcurtains]

I have a theory on these diesels which I feel is their biggest producer of the exhaust soot - turbo lag.

Years ago I remember seeing a then-new Renault Laguna estate (on an 02 plate) accelerating away from traffic lights I was walking past. As the driver went up to 2nd gear it chucked out some black smoke. At first I felt this was a problem, turned out to be normal for diesels, we all see it when the driver is just getting on the gas, especially if they 'give it some'. As almost all diesel engines these days are turbocharged, they'll inevitably breathe out black smoke which is unburnt fuel. This is - I feel - all the soot that you see being emitted from diesel engined cars as they're trying to spool up the turbos. However they're designed to do this as they need exhaust emissions to run the turbos.

What are your thoughts?

Nice idea, but IMO its quite simple, when you burn diesel (correct name heavy oil) it produces a lot of smoke, unlike petrol which burns cleaner. If a diesel car is running properly the carbon produced will leave the exhaust as grey cloud. If its over fuelling its going to be black. Older Diesels 01-06 blow the soot out as part as normal running like the Focus mentioned, if its a later car Euro 5 2010 onwards and has a DPF it will be burnt off in the DPF as they heat to crazy temperatures. If the DPF isnt warmed up to full temperature regularly, eventually it will get blocked.

Nice overfuelling video here

[dervdave]

I have a theory on these diesels which I feel is their biggest producer of the exhaust soot - turbo lag.

Years ago I remember seeing a then-new Renault Laguna estate (on an 02 plate) accelerating away from traffic lights I was walking past. As the driver went up to 2nd gear it chucked out some black smoke. At first I felt this was a problem, turned out to be normal for diesels, we all see it when the driver is just getting on the gas, especially if they 'give it some'. As almost all diesel engines these days are turbocharged, they'll inevitably breathe out black smoke which is unburnt fuel. This is - I feel - all the soot that you see being emitted from diesel engined cars as they're trying to spool up the turbos. However they're designed to do this as they need exhaust emissions to run the turbos.

What are your thoughts?

Nice idea, but IMO its quite simple, when you burn diesel (correct name heavy oil) it produces a lot of smoke, unlike petrol which burns cleaner. If a diesel car is running properly the carbon produced will leave the exhaust as grey cloud. If its over fuelling its going to be black. Older Diesels 01-06 blow the soot out as part as normal running like the Focus mentioned, if its a later car Euro 5 2010 onwards and has a DPF it will be burnt off in the DPF as they heat to crazy temperatures. If the DPF isnt warmed up to full temperature regularly, eventually it will get blocked.

Nice overfuelling video here

I`d guess its not got a DPF ?

Truck racing doesn`t show the clean side of diesel either, most of the time you cannot see the track

[cabcurtains]

It normally doesnt have cars involved either

Diesel and clean in the same sentence :D

[dervdave]

It normally doesnt have cars involved either

What makes you think they did ?