Mmt Brake Pedal

[MikeSh]

Hi, I'm new to the forum and Aygo, but been a Toyota owner/driver for many years.

Just bought a new Aygo Ice this week. I realise it is a budget car and my expectations have been set lower than usual :) but with using it I've found a few things that may just be too annoying to live without (like no passenger door switch - which I've found the answer to on here already).

One surprise is the brake pedal, which appears to be a normal, ie. manual box, pedal, not the wider type that has been fitted to every auto or MMT (incl. our Yaris) I've ever owned. Last night I had to do a couple of hill starts where I'm in the habit of holding the brake with my left foot and shifting my right over to the throttle - and found it was quite tricky. (I don't use my left foot for braking when the car is moving as I still drive manual vehicles at times and that will surely bring tears before bedtime ... )

Does anyone know of an alternative, wider, pedal that can be fitted - ideally without changing the whole pedal and lever?

Thanks

Mike

[rajivrattna]

Use hand break on uphill start as you you would do with the manual gear cars. Do not use accelerator pedal to balance the car (staying stable by balancing with accelerator pedal) on a slope since you will wear out the clutch in the MMT box. Use foot and hand break freely and either stand still with breaks on or move with accelerator pedal pressed.

[MikeSh]

Yes, I know about not riding the clutch and have been driving automatics of all types for 30 odd years now.

Using the handbrake is a pain, especially if it's only for a few seconds and as it only engages the rear brakes it is not as secure as using the footbrake.

Having a 'spare' foot to use is obviously ideal for holding the car on a hill and every auto car I've had before this Aygo has a wider brake pedal to make this easier - including our Yaris MMT.

I guess there is some penny pinching by Toyota here, so I'd just like to know if there is any simple way to 'widen' the brake pedal.

Alternatively is the pedal/lever the same as the Yaris for example, so could maybe be swapped out for one of those? (Long shot I know).

Otherwise I may have to resort to some re-engineering :)

[ormi]

you could make an extension out of sheet metal if your handy at diy..

[Jan&tone]

Please remember the Aygo MMT is NOT an automatic!!!!!!!

It is a manual gearbox with a computer controlled clutch, as such should be treated as a manual gearbox for the purposes of hill starts.

As has been said, put the handbrake on and release as you accellerate.... exactly the same as in a car with a foot operated clutch.

Simples :)

[MikeSh]

Please remember the Aygo MMT is NOT an automatic!!!!!!!

I totally disagree.

Automatic = "having a self-acting or self-regulating mechanism."

That describes an MMT in E mode, and it could be argued in M as well, since there is no manual connection - changes are still managed by the computer.

It is bad practise to hold ANY automatic on a slope with the throttle (you can overheat the torque converter on the hydraulic type), but obviously worse with the friction plate clutch of an MMT.

From the transmission's point of view it makes no difference if the car is held by the hand or foot brake while doing a hill start. Other MMTs (Yaris and Vauxhall Combo from my first hand experience) have the wider brake pedal to enable this and I see no reason that it shouldn't be done for the Aygo.

[MikeSh]

you could make an extension out of sheet metal if your handy at diy..

It's looking that way :)

I might order a pedal rubber for a Yaris MMT and make a plate to fit inside it and bolt onto the existing pedal.

[mrpj]

Whether, by definition, it's automatic or not Jan&tone is/are correct about using the handbrake for a hill start. I know the Yaris manual says exactly that for the MMT.

Surely a wider brake pedal is there because there's space for it and it's a bigger target for when braking? Applying the footbrake with the left foot to assist on a hill start is totally bad practice. Do driving instructors advise this when learning in an automatic? Would failure to use the handbrake during a driving test ensure a pass? Doubtful.

[Unklian]

Just an observation from a safety point of view......

Lets say you do widen the pedal.

As you suggest, you measure the Yaris one and fabricate a top plate.

When you weld it to to to of your Aygo pedal, the actual lever will then be very much

to the "right-hand side" of the foot plate.

If you are using your left foot on the left-hand top edge of your new top plate,

there will be a lot of bending force where it meets the lever.

Make sure it is fabricated strongly.

You will also introduce sideways forces on to the pedal pivot point.

Carefully does it !

Ian.

[Jan&tone]

Please remember the Aygo MMT is NOT an automatic!!!!!!!

I totally disagree.

Automatic = "having a self-acting or self-regulating mechanism."

That describes an MMT in E mode, and it could be argued in M as well, since there is no manual connection - changes are still managed by the computer.

It is bad practise to hold ANY automatic on a slope with the throttle (you can overheat the torque converter on the hydraulic type), but obviously worse with the friction plate clutch of an MMT.

From the transmission's point of view it makes no difference if the car is held by the hand or foot brake while doing a hill start. Other MMTs (Yaris and Vauxhall Combo from my first hand experience) have the wider brake pedal to enable this and I see no reason that it shouldn't be done for the Aygo.

You know, this is what is p**ing me off about this forum at the moment...

The MMT gearbox IS NOT AN AUTOMATIC it is a manual box with a computer controlled clutch. Whether it is used as an auto box or a manual one is the users choice, but it does not have the torque converter of an automatic, nor the cvt of an hybrid.

You do NOT hold an MMT on the gas pedal, to do so on either the DSA or the IAM test will result in a failure. If you hold it on the foot brake and then release the pedal to go for the gas pedal to move, the car will roll backwards on any sort of gradient, you should hold it on the handbrake. That is what I teach the candidates fir the IAM test and I've had no failures yet.

To modify the brake pedal so that you can more easily use a bad practice is the height of folly.

You are perfectly at liberty to call it an auto if you wish, but please don't presume to tell me how to use my MMT Aygo.

There will not be a wider pedal in the Aygo for the simple reason that it is cheaper to put the same pedal in both the variants, thus keeping the cost to the end user down.

[MikeSh]

You know, this is what is p**ing me off about this forum at the moment...

The MMT gearbox IS NOT AN AUTOMATIC it is a manual box with a computer controlled clutch.

From DVLA:

For driving test purposes:

• manual vehicles have three pedals – accelerator, brake and clutch
  
• automatic vehicles have two pedals
  

You do NOT hold an MMT on the gas pedal,

As far as I can tell no-one in this thread has said one should or that they do, but thanks anyway.

... but please don't presume to tell me how to use my MMT Aygo.

Neither I or anyone else, I think, was telling you how to use your car. Apologies if that is how you read it.

In fact, almost everyone else has been telling me how to use mine - mainly because in classic internet forum fashion they have failed to actually read and understand what has been written. That's internet life for you :)

[MikeSh]

Just an observation from a safety point of view......

Lets say you do widen the pedal.

As you suggest, you measure the Yaris one and fabricate a top plate.

When you weld it to to to of your Aygo pedal, the actual lever will then be very much

to the "right-hand side" of the foot plate.

If you are using your left foot on the left-hand top edge of your new top plate,

there will be a lot of bending force where it meets the lever.

Make sure it is fabricated strongly.

You will also introduce sideways forces on to the pedal pivot point.

Carefully does it !

Ian.

Yes, you are spot on.

I'd only do this if the pedal spacings are similar to the Yaris, so that the 'attachment' can be mounted centrally on the pedal - I wouldn't risk having it offset. I'll also check to see if the lever is a similar thickness, etc, as it's possible the assembly in the MMT Yaris is heavier to allow for the greater possible twisting forces that could be applied. If the Aygo looks a bit flimsier I wouldn't risk it.

[rajivrattna]

You know what Mike Sh I have a compromise solution for the next generation Aygo and that is one of those newer fancy hand brake buttons on the dash. Just press that and your Aygo stays put. And when you want to go you press the accelerator and the hand BRAKE disengages by itself.

The only worrying bit about these button hand brakes is that they are electronic and the question is can we trust them 100%? What happens if the Battery is weak or dead?

[Cyker]

What we need to solve this is a HSD Aygo!

[MikeSh]

You know what Mike Sh I have a compromise solution for the next generation Aygo and that is one of those newer fancy hand brake buttons on the dash. Just press that and your Aygo stays put. And when you want to go you press the accelerator and the hand BRAKE disengages by itself.

If it only works on the rear brakes I'd probably still use my foot, as that reduces/eliminates the kangaroo effect when the forces transfer from rear to front wheels ...

The only worrying bit about these button hand brakes is that they are electronic and the question is can we trust them 100%? What happens if the battery is weak or dead?

... and there is that too :)

(I'm still not 100% happy with ABS as I wonder what may happen with older cars that have not been well maintained. I suppose I'm just a bit old fashioned)

[MikeSh]

What we need to solve this is a HSD Aygo!

HSD??