Rav4 Xt5 Diesel Poor Starting In Cold Weather

[cwl]

My Rav4 xt5 diesel has began to give me problems when trying to start it. Its the push button start and when the engine is cold it won't fire first time. If I immedietly release and press the start button again it will fire ok the second time. I am lead to believe that in really cold weather the engine will wait for a short time before trying to start, while to glow plugs warm up. Well the engine tries to fire no more than two seconds after pushing the button, which doesn't seem long enough to me. Any idea's?

[Mistermena]

Its very cold out there today! My car didn't start 1st time either and sounded like a 2nd World War Panza tank!...

[cwl]

I've never had any starting problems before. Even last winter when it was -10 deg it started no problem. It just seemed to take a little longer before it tried to fire.

[Mistermena]

Prob need new glow plugs then?...

[cwl]

Im thinking it needs more time for them to warm up, but what controls this delay before trying to fire?

Ok just done some research and there may be a sensor for the coolant temp which controls this delay. Anyone know more about this?

[Mistermena]

It could be the fact that the glow plugs are sending a signal saying they are hot and ready to start! But not as hot as they should be hence the reply in needing new plugs! have you tested them? Is the current going through the rail?

[shcm]

The length of time the glow plug light on the instrument pack is on, is determed by the ambient temperature.

In the past there were separate glow plug controllers. These days it is done in the engine management system, so it will be determining glow plug light on time, based on what it thinks the outside temperature is.

I f you watch, the car should attempt to start immediately after the glowplug light has gone out.

Usually though, the glow plugs are energised for a period long after the light has gone out. Probably something like 30 seconds if you don't start, before they are turned off. (There can also be a post heat phase, where they are on for a while, after the engine has started). I know this, because I designed a custom glowplug controller chip, long, long ago.

Probably the glow plugs want replacing. but you can try this, to see if it is any easier:

Don't press the clutch pedal

Press the start button twice, so that all the instrument lights come on.

Wait for the glow plug light to go out.

Wait a few more seconds longer (You might get a bit more heat into the cylinders as the plugs are still on).

Depress the clutch and press the start button to crank/start.

[cwl]

Cheers I'll try this method of starting and check the glow plugs

[Tech01]

. . . and replace the Battery before even thinking about replacing glowplugs (Toyota's seem to soldier on forever), simply because it's infinitely cheaper! After 5 years, you're definitely into bonus-time with most batteries. Poor very-cold-starting is usually a sign of a Battery on the way out: although the ECU timers do their stuff, the available voltage is just not good enough to get the plugs hot enough.

Chris

[shcm]

True, but we had a number of 4.3 glowplugs reportedly replaced under warranty.

Easiest thing to do is measure the glowplug resistance and see before replacing anything.

[igormus]

My Rav4 xt5 diesel has began to give me problems when trying to start it. Its the push button start and when the engine is cold it won't fire first time. If I immedietly release and press the start button again it will fire ok the second time. I am lead to believe that in really cold weather the engine will wait for a short time before trying to start, while to glow plugs warm up. Well the engine tries to fire no more than two seconds after pushing the button, which doesn't seem long enough to me. Any idea's?

it is cold for air even tough all glows are in order. the fuel is also cold to be ignited in 2 secs. if engine starts well , and you have experienced the same then i do not see any troubles. the winter is guilty matey :)

cheers/Igor

[cabcurtains]

Is it running rough once started for the first few seconds and producing smoke, then returning to normal running? Or is all ok once it eventually fires up?

[cwl]

When I tried it again it was 5 deg and the glow plug light never came on. I am having the same problem starting. The Battery feels strong. When it tries to fire the first time it feels like it has fired but immediately splutters and continues to turn over. It always fires straight away the second time of trying. Once its running it is smooth with no smoke to speak of.

[dervdave]

When I tried it again it was 5 deg and the glow plug light never came on. I am having the same problem starting. The battery feels strong. When it tries to fire the first time it feels like it has fired but immediately splutters and continues to turn over. I always fires straight away the second time of trying. Once its running it is smooth with no smoke to speak of.

I`d bang some in BG 244 and see if having a bit of a `clean up` helps

[cwl]

worth a try

[three5]

My Rav4 xt5 diesel has began to give me problems when trying to start it. Its the push button start and when the engine is cold it won't fire first time. If I immedietly release and press the start button again it will fire ok the second time. I am lead to believe that in really cold weather the engine will wait for a short time before trying to start, while to glow plugs warm up. Well the engine tries to fire no more than two seconds after pushing the button, which doesn't seem long enough to me. Any idea's?

Hi Craig

My XT₅ is garaged just about every night but is noticably slower to start in cold weather. You get in, press the button and then wait maybe 7 or 8 seconds before it tries to start. It never fails to start, but that 7 or 8 seconds seems a very long time when you are sat there with your foot on the clutch. I'm guessing that yours should be waiting more than a couple of seconds before the starter motor powers up. Does your sleep inside or outside?

[cwl]

Its normally parked on my drive. I've never let it turn over for more that say five seconds if it hasn't fired. Its never let me down second time. Its just so !Removed! annoying. Im hoping for so really cold weather to see if it starts when the glow plugs cut in. Don't think I will have long to wait!

[shcm]

Might it be also worth trying to prime the black button plunger on fuel filter housing. To coin a phrase, "pump it until it's hard". There are pictures on here somewhere, that show its location.

[cwl]

Yeah I read that somewhere. It's just had full service and has new fuel filter. I'll try that as well (problem started before service btw)

[cabcurtains]

When I tried it again it was 5 deg and the glow plug light never came on. I am having the same problem starting. The battery feels strong. When it tries to fire the first time it feels like it has fired but immediately splutters and continues to turn over. It always fires straight away the second time of trying. Once its running it is smooth with no smoke to speak of.

I seem to have said this in several threads recently, our Verso with the same engine had a very similar issue at 55k ish in Nov 10, it turned out to need injectors under warranty. How many miles has your car done?

EGR,Glowplugs and fuel filter would be the cheapest place to start the issue chase.

If you dont find a simple resolution i would be tempted to get a Diesel specialist to test the injectors. Mr T will want to change all 4 for £1000's

[cwl]

The car has done 44K

[cwl]

Tried it a 5.30am at temp of 1deg. Glow plug light came on for about 2 secs. I waited another 3-5 secs before trying it and it started no bother. It seems I have the most problems when the temp is just high enough not to need the glow plugs.

[shcm]

I've just checked and certainly for the later models (need to check further for the earlier 4.3 models), with the engine coolant temperature around 0C, you should be getting between 3 and 5 seconds preheat (lamp on time).

The Battery voltage shouldn't really affect it, because, (something I wasn't aware of) the control strategy now is such that the preheat time is lengthened with lower Battery voltages.

It sounds like your Battery is OK if the engine is turning over rapidly.

Could still be the plugs (but as was hinted at further up, you get smoke and rough starting often with that).

Could be the coolant temperature sensor - does your engine temp guage come up to temp quickly or read high? They are normally mid point on the gauge at working eng temp. You can usually read coolant temp off OBD too. That would confirm if the sensor is giving a reasonably sensible output.

Or it could be something else...........just food for thought.

[jedi134]

My 4.2 needs a bit of accelerator to start 1st time...without she only fires up on 2nd start.?

Funny old girl :-)

[Davrav]

My 4.2 needs a bit of accelerator to start 1st time...without she only fires up on 2nd start.?

Funny old girl :-)

It must be taking a few turns to shift all that thick, gloopy oil around Jedi...................

Especially when it's cold.