Toyota And Warranty Work

[Tech01]

This caught my eye on the front page of the Sunday Times this morning...

Toyota dodging repairs in new cars

Text is on the following website:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=21195579

______________________

Just so that we are all aware,

Chris

[jedi134]

Oooooo...! I am well aware of what dealerships get up to chris, but always good to inform others, those who may fall into the non the wiser catagory.

:D

[pmb]

I've read the front page but not got round to the 2 pages inside yet. Was going to start a thread about this if no one else did.

[jedi134]

It's not just Toyota there a far bigger pirates out there.....Don't be fooled by the big flashy logos, the cups of tea..........or the dealbreaker......the top of the range courtesy car they give you. You forget all about your vehicle, and that's their aim.

[Big Kev]

Unlike some folk, I do not have a TOTAL DOWNER on all things / people called "dealers", and definitely would not deem to poo-poo such an established "newspaper" as The Times.......but let's face it....if there is a negative to report, our British media will grab it by its non straight hair and report it to death. It would make really boring reading / reporting that a car manufacturer had puts its hands up to a major engineering and design fault in its engines (or accelerator assemblies) and offered to fix them free and gratis, some repairs to which being well outwith the normal period of "warranty".

Even the "gaggle of south eastern dealers" make no reference to such positive outcomes in their business dealings with Toyota....then say the recession is bad as nobody is buying their stock more than likely. Would you if you heard such bleatings....? They seem hell bent on meeting in what was previously known as smoky rooms and feed the gutter media with as much negatoryfulness as possible. (note new word...)

As a Scotsman, I can be very reserved in my day to day dealings having been both employee and employer, but take what happens to me at my dealer's at face value, which thus far has been an extremely good experience albeit expensive. Watch me change, however, should that not be the case, but for now will try to remain positive regardless of all THE OIL thrown in my path up to the present....

Fellowsophical Kev

[firemac]

Unlike some folk, I do not have a TOTAL DOWNER on all things / people called "dealers", and definitely would not deem to poo-poo such an established "newspaper" as The Times.......but let's face it....if there is a negative to report, our British media will grab it by its non straight hair and report it to death. It would make really boring reading / reporting that a car manufacturer had puts its hands up to a major engineering and design fault in its engines (or accelerator assemblies) and offered to fix them free and gratis, some repairs to which being well outwith the normal period of "warranty".

Even the "gaggle of south eastern dealers" make no reference to such positive outcomes in their business dealings with Toyota....then say the recession is bad as nobody is buying their stock more than likely. Would you if you heard such bleatings....? They seem hell bent on meeting in what was previously known as smoky rooms and feed the gutter media with as much negatoryfulness as possible. (note new word...)

As a Scotsman, I can be very reserved in my day to day dealings having been both employee and employer, but take what happens to me at my dealer's at face value, which thus far has been an extremely good experience albeit expensive. Watch me change, however, should that not be the case, but for now will try to remain positive regardless of all THE OIL throw in my path up to the present....

Fellowsophical Kev

Well elucidated, Oh Great Celtic Bard.

Truly bad dealers don't last long as word gets around. The good ones still have to turn a profit to stay in business & carry on being good. The car business is the same as any other, you have no idea what's involved unless you're in it; same in any other sector. In my carreer I've worked for some household names that are held in high esteem by the general public but I was utterly surprised at what went on inside those organisations & found myself amazed on more than one occasion with what they (we!) got away with. Bad mouthing the industry as a whole simply demonstrates the ignorance of the individual concerned.

In this case the journalist simply wants his editor to throw him a crumb or two. There's many more issues of genuine importance to read about than this garbage.

[jedi134]

But therre are a lot of these truely bad dealers around? Its just very hard to prove because they move so fast to cover thier bottoms?

I`m not saying theyre all the same, but what does it take to become a Main dealer franchise!!!!

No doubt I could become main dealer registered? With a bit of blar! balr!

Would you want me servicing your cars?

[Hoovie]

As usual, Kev, you make good sense. I have pretty well given up reading what the journos write, no matter what rag it is as they all want to jump on the negativity bandwagon no matter what and the 'balance' is gone.

My own experience of the Extended Warranty is when I had the A/C fan fail on my Celica GT4 and when it was in the Dealer having that replaced they found there was a cold spot on the Main Radiator so replaced that as a precaution (car had no history of overheating).

The same car on another occasion started blowing on the exhaust (car was around 5 years then I think?) and I took it in and left it, really to just get a price and when I went back to get the car and the diagnosis, I found they put on a new Exhuast at no cost.

With the RAV4 I got all 4 Alloy Wheels replaced under warranty and later on in its life, all 4 discs replaced under Extended Warranty without any hassles whatsoever.

I prefer to take my own experiences over a journo who is trying to make headlines with nonesense.

[jedi134]

What journos say has got to be the truth???? :o otherwise its lible and would not be published......

Theres no smoke without fire.....as the saying goes ;)

[cabcurtains]

This is the most interesting line:

The problem was that Toyota’s warranty policy and procedures manual, a secret document seen only by dealers, states that “the warranty should address only those issues raised directly by a customer”, unless they are a direct risk to safety or reliability.

So the car is safe but the Tech wants to critique it and find loads of work then replace bits that havent been approved by TGB.

Having worked for a Manufacturer if dealers had total control of this then Manufacturer would be bankrupt.

[jedi134]

Its because when the service manager gets it in the neck from a customer..........the !Removed! house service manager always referes the customer to the techi......or super duper master techi, and he takes the !Removed! from the customer on the service managers behalf!!!!!

So no wonder they are kicking off............the techi knows theres something wrong, but cannot say so,....................

[Lorna2]

What journos say has got to be the truth???? :o otherwise its lible and would not be published......

Then why do retractions exist if everything printed in 'news'papers is true?

Anyway all they have to do is something called exaggerate and blow things way out of proportion. They can say 'a source says...' and nobody can prove if the statement was made up or not.

A journalist will put their own slant on any story. As long as it sells. Since when have newspapers been squeaky clean?

[Manxrav]

Fair comment Lorna, Newspapers are hanging on for dear life these days. I agree 100% with Kev, I have never had a bad deal from Main Dealer on island and would be the first to chastise if he did. Unfortunatley there are good and bad in all walks of life and it,s for Joe Public to decide.

Regards Clare

I,ll get off my soapbox now

[hedleyf]

Hi,

There is nothing wrong with the way warranty work is carried out, if for some reason,like in the report a suspected fault is susspected by the tech then there are correct procedures to follow,he was wrong to jump the gun and repair it, also would be wrong to inform the customer at this early stage as certain things could be like they are because of the design,several years ago I worked for Audi and we had VW also in the workshop,the VW boys started to replace brand new suspension struts because they thought there was a fault with thier top mountings only to find the new ones the same,when the wieght was taken off the wheel it seemed like the mount was broken,VW did not want to pay for this as this was the way the strut was designed. Toyota has a policy that if a tech thinks there maybe a issue with something then he has direct contact through the Toyota system to inform them,it called a product report and any registed Toyota tenh can use it , Toyota technical will then read it and maybe take action or advise,if enough reports arrive with the same or simular problems they will then look into it themselves and if need be issue a recall or a rework on the matter, As already mentioned Toyota warranty will normally strech beyond the 5 years for certain things or a agreement can often be attchieved.

[crustyclam]

This seems bad, i can imagine from an techinicians/engineers perspective to not fix a fault knowing it exists and will be lurking for a future expense for the cusomer it must be difficult.

Look at some TSB's they state only if a customer complains.

I think dealers in general are expensive, but i have to admit they have the detailed knowledge to spot specific issues, and that can be worth a lot of money especially if the vehicle is under warranty.

If it is true that dealerships are penalised by fines for repairing absolute fauls that is a great shame. After all it really is the name TOYOTA that is affected.

These forums are a great way of highlighting these issues.

[hedleyf]

Its a case of over reaction sometimes, these cars are tested and tested before they go out to sale to the public, the point about a customer having to state there is a concern is normal in all case's if you go to your doctor you tell him whats concerning you ,he then treats you for that, he dos'nt test everything else out in your body although there could be something else wrong with you, if a customer books a car in for a service they will be asked if they have any concerns with the car, no technition or workshop foreman is going to let a car out if its not legall or if there is a defect with it, example maybe Rav steeering column noise, they all make clonks and rattles but I've never known one to snap off, I blame the old silent films for this as it always seemed to show cars with thier wheels coming off, seems to have left a image in everyones brain.

As I said before the tech is not in the dark,and there is a report process.

[jedi134]

Im afraid,from expericence I am going to have to disagree :D

That VW Suspension strut fault was a £20 thrust bearing and washers that needed replacing, but the VW pirates would charge £700 for a new strut and fitting, because they didnt know how to compress the spring and dismantle the thing.

It was common across the VW range! I belive <_<

So either £20 to fix of £700 to fix...........Your money you choose!!!! :D

If you have no idea whether they have changed your tires from left to right, how can you possably know they have done a good job?.............Because the brew and biscuits were spot on?

[hedleyf]

There was a VW I think possibly polo circa 91-2 that when it was raised up on the ramp and the wieght was off the wheels the top of the strut felt lose It was noticed on pdi, the fact was that it was not bolted solid to the chassis and only rested there with the wieght of the car, it would not drop completly out but had some movement, I think what you mentioned was a fault that happened later and not on undelivered cars.

[junebug1701]

If I were the tech and discovered something wrong, I would inform the customer and ask them if they wanted me to fix it under warranty. Then I could say that the customer did indeed report it.

[Hoovie]

If I were the tech and discovered something wrong, I would inform the customer and ask them if they wanted me to fix it under warranty. Then I could say that the customer did indeed report it.

Indeed so.

Is that not the point of the Customer Advisory Form (or whatever Dealers of the various makes call them?). I think if ANY dealer of ANY make took the kind of approach indicated by that newspaper article, they would be relying on all-new customers to stay in business as they will have very few returnees