Has Your 2.2 D4D (2Ad) Rav4 Had A New Engine?

[anchorman]

Yes we ALL know there is a problem with a lot of these engines, but we have thrashed it about and we dont seem any closer to an answer, is it the fuel? is it the oil? is it a design fault?.. We all have our opinions and untill Toyota come up with a conclusive and believable answer, some of us will remain very worried, I don't know if Charlie has got his 2nd engine fitted yet, but lets hope they can find out the problem with his first one, because as he says his EGR is completely clean after 9000 mls, so this could be something different alltogether...Stew

We do know what the answer is Stew because Toyota have already published it.

I think it was more of a durability/testing fault than a design fault but they admitted quite early on that 2ADs were using oil and then several bulletins with slight variations followed in succession. You can see from this late one that the mods were in production by May 2008. It also details what else was checked by the mechanic (DPF, EGR, injectors etc). You can also see that some of the checks are visual and that is where the human element comes and things become subjective. In the case of Tims engine which was stripped, you only need a mechanic to make a wrong judgement on something borderline and you had an unsuccessful repair. That is one of the reasons they took it in house to take that risk away. Now Tim is in the situation I believe that he has had one rebuilt then is now on his second engine which was a 3/4 engine (correct me Tim if I'm wrong) and because of all the uncertainty flying around on this forum that he is anticipating something going wrong but it so far has not.

The bulletin to which the engine replacement program refers takes into account any 2AD engine to December 2008 and some other models even later just as a mopping up precaution but these later engines are low risk.

The answer to your question is therefor; It was an oil cosumption problem that led to severe clogging of the engine ancillary devices and manifolds etc and severe cases the carbon reacted with head gaskets/coolant. Poor fuel excarbated the problem as it gums up the carbon. Yesterday Kev reported that his EGR inspection after being run on high grade fuel had only soft soot instead of the crusty deposits that come with the cheap fuel. Without those large deposits of carbon that have built up from the engine using oil AND the owner using supermarket fuel (I have seen an early T180 clogged solid with the EGR wide open).

As for owners worrying, I know Charlie's new 3/4 engine has got something wrong with it but I don't know anybody else. Certainly all the ones I have had replaced for various friends ( 2 180s and 4 140s) are all delighted. They are using virtually no oil (to say none is probably hard to prove but none noticeable as applies to my 150 engine), they sound slightly sweeter due to the new piston design and injector settings and go really well. They are all without exception, delighted. Aren't yout the same? Do you worry about yours? If so why?

Excessive oil consumption 2.pdf

EDIT Both Kev and Guy are running late T/SR 180s and neither have used any significant or unusual amounts of oil. They are both quite happy and niether feel the need to progress a claim for a new engine.

[Parts-King]

I just wondered, in order to get some kind of perspective on the scale of this problem, If Kingo, who works for 2 large Toyota dealerships could give us a rough idea of the number of Ravs sold. say between 2006 and 2008, and the number of rebuilt or replacement engines they have carried out, because surely anyone purchasing a car from them that has the problem, would return to them for the fix, (Kingo, if you read this I am not asking you to get involved with this debate) I just wondered if this problem is as widespread as we think it is,

Stew

I have tried to keep out of the debate for a few reasons

A, Some people, no matter what I would say, would not believe me

B, When I try to put a bit of balance into a debate, it goes off into Toyota/ Dealer bashing, so I often dont get involved as I'm tired of some of the negative people on here who just see any issue with Toyota / Their dealer as being an opportunity to take a dig. It is that very negativity that will be on this forum for people to view years to come, probably long after the posters are around, that annoys me. Some future owner will see this poll and get a completely wrong idea about the current situation. Owners we have spoken to as a dealership, are VERY HAPPY with the way their claim has been handled and the way the vehicle now performs

The new engine situation does NOT affect every vehicle, yes we have fitted a lot, but it is most certainly NOT every T180 we see by any stretch of the immagination. I dont have specific numbers for sales / numbers of repairs

Charlie has been very unfortunate, I dont know of any other 3/4 engine that has gone wrong, there is no "secret" bulletin knocking around, just like there is no "secret" warranty policy with Toyota as the press would have you think

As far as I am concerned, Toyota have handled this situation superbly, I can think of NO other manufacturer who would go about trying to restore faith back to customers like Toyota have done with this engine issue

and on that note................. I will step out of this one if it's all the same ;)

Kingo

[dervdave]

3 Cheers for Kingo, the voice of informed sanity and another couple of cheers for his loyalty to Toyota.

And while we`re on lets have a few cheers for Toyota as well ! :group-cuddles: :D

[t-spiritpete]

I just wondered, in order to get some kind of perspective on the scale of this problem, If Kingo, who works for 2 large Toyota dealerships could give us a rough idea of the number of Ravs sold. say between 2006 and 2008, and the number of rebuilt or replacement engines they have carried out, because surely anyone purchasing a car from them that has the problem, would return to them for the fix, (Kingo, if you read this I am not asking you to get involved with this debate) I just wondered if this problem is as widespread as we think it is,

Stew

I have tried to keep out of the debate for a few reasons

A, Some people, no matter what I would say, would not believe me

B, When I try to put a bit of balance into a debate, it goes off into Toyota/ Dealer bashing, so I often dont get involved as I'm tired of some of the negative people on here who just see any issue with Toyota / Their dealer as being an opportunity to take a dig. It is that very negativity that will be on this forum for people to view years to come, probably long after the posters are around, that annoys me. Some future owner will see this poll and get a completely wrong idea about the current situation. Owners we have spoken to as a dealership, are VERY HAPPY with the way their claim has been handled and the way the vehicle now performs

The new engine situation does NOT affect every vehicle, yes we have fitted a lot, but it is most certainly NOT every T180 we see by any stretch of the immagination. I dont have specific numbers for sales / numbers of repairs

Charlie has been very unfortunate, I dont know of any other 3/4 engine that has gone wrong, there is no "secret" bulletin knocking around, just like there is no "secret" warranty policy with Toyota as the press would have you think

As far as I am concerned, Toyota have handled this situation superbly, I can think of NO other manufacturer who would go about trying to restore faith back to customers like Toyota have done with this engine issue

and on that note................. I will step out of this one if it's all the same ;)

Kingo

Very well put mate and as the owner of a 2006/7 2AD engined Avensis 150 which burns NO OIL I couldn't agree more.

Pete.

[jedi134]

Pleaseeeeeeeeeeee dont go on at me for bringing this oil thing back up, but maybe this will explain what Im getting at with the oils.........I cant belive no one is understanding this? :D

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1234274&fpart=2

[CharlieFarlie]

Yes we ALL know there is a problem with a lot of these engines, but we have thrashed it about and we dont seem any closer to an answer, is it the fuel? is it the oil? is it a design fault?.. We all have our opinions and untill Toyota come up with a conclusive and believable answer, some of us will remain very worried, I don't know if Charlie has got his 2nd engine fitted yet, but lets hope they can find out the problem with his first one, because as he says his EGR is completely clean after 9000 mls, so this could be something different alltogether...Stew

Stew. My car went in today so likely the engine will be out already.. I would think We will never get to the bottom of what ha s gone wrong with the engine as I think it will just get sent back to Japan as it is ..

A question though and it is a serious question.. Why is that everyone smiles when they see Me getting in and out of the wee Aygo that I have as a courtesy car ??.... Fair baffled I am... Tis a small wee car though...

[CharlieFarlie]

I just wondered, in order to get some kind of perspective on the scale of this problem, If Kingo, who works for 2 large Toyota dealerships could give us a rough idea of the number of Ravs sold. say between 2006 and 2008, and the number of rebuilt or replacement engines they have carried out, because surely anyone purchasing a car from them that has the problem, would return to them for the fix, (Kingo, if you read this I am not asking you to get involved with this debate) I just wondered if this problem is as widespread as we think it is,

Stew

I have tried to keep out of the debate for a few reasons

A, Some people, no matter what I would say, would not believe me

B, When I try to put a bit of balance into a debate, it goes off into Toyota/ Dealer bashing, so I often dont get involved as I'm tired of some of the negative people on here who just see any issue with Toyota / Their dealer as being an opportunity to take a dig. It is that very negativity that will be on this forum for people to view years to come, probably long after the posters are around, that annoys me. Some future owner will see this poll and get a completely wrong idea about the current situation. Owners we have spoken to as a dealership, are VERY HAPPY with the way their claim has been handled and the way the vehicle now performs

The new engine situation does NOT affect every vehicle, yes we have fitted a lot, but it is most certainly NOT every T180 we see by any stretch of the immagination. I dont have specific numbers for sales / numbers of repairs

Charlie has been very unfortunate, I dont know of any other 3/4 engine that has gone wrong, there is no "secret" bulletin knocking around, just like there is no "secret" warranty policy with Toyota as the press would have you think

As far as I am concerned, Toyota have handled this situation superbly, I can think of NO other manufacturer who would go about trying to restore faith back to customers like Toyota have done with this engine issue

and on that note................. I will step out of this one if it's all the same ;)

Kingo

You are spot on John Toyota have been absolutely superb and I too can think of no other manufacturer that would have replaced the engine once let alone twice.. I would have been a happier punter though if it had never needed touching in the first place..

Sorry if that sounds ungrateful and I'm certainly NOT ungrateful quite the opposite if fact !

[Davrav]

A question though and it is a serious question.. Why is that everyone smiles when they see Me getting in and out of the wee Aygo that I have as a courtesy car ??.... Fair baffled I am... Tis a small wee car though...

Well, are you actually getting into it or 'putting it on' like a coat They're awfully small.............

[CharlieFarlie]

Errrr Well it wasn't built for Me David that's for sure.. The very pleasant Lady on the service Desk was grinning when She handed Me the keys.. Fair dos to them for providing a car of any description when providing such a top notch service !

I wonder if I could blag them into lending Me one for the other foot ??

[Hoovie]

Errrr Well it wasn't built for Me David that's for sure.. The very pleasant Lady on the service Desk was grinning when She handed Me the keys.. Fair dos to them for providing a car of any description when providing such a top notch service !

I wonder if I could blag them into lending Me one for the other foot ??

I got into the back of an Aygo when in a dealer out of curiousity and couldn't even get out the thing so god knows how you are managing Charlie!

Good luck with the new new motor, Mate

[dervdave]

.. A question though and it is a serious question.. Why is that everyone smiles when they see Me getting in and out of the wee Aygo that I have as a courtesy car ??.... Fair baffled I am... Tis a small wee car though...

I wonder why :D

[CharlieFarlie]

Errrr Well it wasn't built for Me David that's for sure.. The very pleasant Lady on the service Desk was grinning when She handed Me the keys.. Fair dos to them for providing a car of any description when providing such a top notch service !

I wonder if I could blag them into lending Me one for the other foot ??

I got into the back of an Aygo when in a dealer out of curiousity and couldn't even get out the thing so god knows how you are managing Charlie!

Good luck with the new new motor, Mate

Thanks ! I will be driving at least two hundred miles in the wee car tomorrow !! Cor I bet the Rav will feel like a Rolls Royce on Wednesday when I get it back !!

[Paulus17]

Charlie.

Will you be giving the Rav another chance with it's new engine for a while,or is it going ASAP still??

[cabcurtains]

.. A question though and it is a serious question.. Why is that everyone smiles when they see Me getting in and out of the wee Aygo that I have as a courtesy car ??.... Fair baffled I am... Tis a small wee car though...

I wonder why :D

[CharlieFarlie]

Charlie.

Will you be giving the Rav another chance with it's new engine for a while,or is it going ASAP still??

No Paul its going.. I could have sold it a few weeks ago but I really did not want to sell it with problems attached. Now hopefully it will be sorted and ready to go. I was talking to a Dealer late afternoon and am close to agreeing a deal. Problem is I'm up and down the motorway so much at the moment I can hardly catch My breath....

[Manxrav]

Charlie, I can,t imagine what you would have said if they had loaned you an iQ, like I had when it went (U/C) for a service!!!! Beggers belief

Regards Clare

[local hero]

Anchs you asked if i worry about my new engine, well No its running like a dream, my problem is that i drive it so little, I think its only done 1500 miles on the new engine and runs great, and may have used a tiny, tiny, bit of oil Like 1/4" thats a quarter of an inch but tbh i find these dip sticks difficult to read..My old engine had only done 22000 in nearly 5yrs so the oil was changed every 12mth or 4000mls, which is why i said on an earlier post that i was not sure if i needed a new engine. because i never topped it up between services the only sign i had was a very sooty exhaust, a bit of smoke on acceleration, and my EGR was quite sooted up Stew

Please, please, can someone sort these Emoticons out!!!!!!!!!

[wardude]

what if like me you aint had a new engine but have had new pistons/head gasket/cat fitted???

[local hero]

well, i suppose it depends on how good the techy was that did it, and if all is well then don't worry about it, Kingo told me that a couple of his technicians could strip and rebuild an engine better than Toyota in his opinion, so lets hope yours was a good un...Stew

[anchorman]

Me and shcm changed his oil the other day and his is like mine - when 5.9 litres are added it shows about 4 or 5mm down from the full mark.

In reality, topping it up to the top mark would overfill it.

What's up with the emoticons?

...........you can do foxes.