2 Stroke In Diesel

[Bos]

I've been following this topic from the beginning with great interest.

Back in the 60's ( with Lambretta Scooters' ) I used 'Bardahl' 2 stroke oil. With normal oil the ratio was 20 to1, using Bardahl you could use 40 to 1 ratio, and the engine always performed better.

Looking on the net they produce an oil for car engines that is claimed to reduce oil-burning and is alleged to give greater lubrication. I wonder if anyone has tried this.

[dervdave]

if the car runs better and the fuel pump is getting better lubrication (the main reason i`m doing it) then anything else is a bonus and I will carry on until i see a good reason not to.

You`ve used TS before though Dave

[Daveyonthemove]

I`ve just chucked 150ml of it in the wifes little 1.1 Metro.

I don`t care if it runs better or not, I just want it to smell like a scooter

[Daveyonthemove]

I`ve just chucked 150ml of it in the wifes little 1.1 Metro.

I don`t care if it runs better or not, I just want it to smell like a scooter

if the car runs better and the fuel pump is getting better lubrication (the main reason i`m doing it) then anything else is a bonus and I will carry on until i see a good reason not to.

You`ve used TS before though Dave

Yup, tried it in the Mondeo, but that car was a bad un, so i ditched the idea and got rid of the car.

Not tried it in the Auris before, but glad I have.

Also this is the first car I have owned with a DPF, so the differences could be large, as the 5th injector may not be as active if the DPF is not filling up as quick.

[dervdave]

I noticed this vid about a DPF cleaner/additive, I`ve seen it for sale on eBay

[cabcurtains]

There is even a low ash version here http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/COMMA-two-wheel-two-stroke-oil-mineral-low-ash-/170765036521?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item27c263abe9

[Daveyonthemove]

Just a quick update to my findings with 2 stroke in my Auris.

The engine now feels silky smooth. Torque delivery feels stronger low down, and the overall feel of the engine is much nicer. The wife drove it to London on Wednesday and the MPG reached 48.1, but this dropped slightly during town driving when she was there. The current MPG is a respectable 45.3 after 369 miles, and that is the best it has achieved over this sort of distance and mixture of driving.

Over all I'm very impressed with the results, and will continue to use it.

Anyone wishing to try it should maybe consider a small amount in a 1/4 tank of fuel (maybe 50ml) so it can be diluted with diesel again if the car doesn't feel right in your opinion.

Hope that helps.

Dave

[Gav rav]

Hi all

just tried this over the last week

however will it block the fuel filter?

[Daveyonthemove]

Hasn't blocked mine in nearly 1000 miles.

[Tech01]

Which 2T oil to use?

Several of the articles I've read on 2T oil in diesel make the point that it's best to use mineral base 2T oil, and not the purely synthetic stuff. There's also a semi-synthetic grade.

All 2T oil seems to conform to the old American API standard, which is pretty broad these days, apparently.

There's also a JASO (Japanese Automotive Standards Association) standard, marked on most bottles.

Essentially, for 2T oil, my understanding is that:

JASO JB is mineral

JASO JC is semi-synthetic

JASO JD is fully-synthetic

So just try to pick up a bottle/container marked JB. If stuck, JC is acceptable, the write-ups said, and avoid JD.

JB is also by far the cheapest, and is tag-lined here as "Essential", "City", "Basic", rather than "Performance" or anything else.

Out here, JB is around €6 a litre; JC and JD can be double or triple that.

Chris

[Mistermena]

A very interesting thread! This is what I've just used in my Avensis http://www.wilkinsonplus.com/car-maintenance/wilko-2-stroke-engine-oil-semi-synthetic-600ml/invt/0286554/?htxt=Nn46hmEd%2FGK%2FXMqd7IGe%2BGH95cK4KmFp7WtPO4O4ltJlyVQaoOBUhU6mX8HLJDX%2FJOEEiPKOQO6Y%0AAsRVs3gIqQ%3D%3D and this in my VW Polo 1.4TDi http://www.wilkinsonplus.com/car-maintenance/wilko-2-stroke-engine-oil-600ml/invt/0039756/?htxt=Nn46hmEd%2FGK%2FXMqd7IGe%2BGH95cK4KmFp7WtPO4O4ltJlyVQaoOBUhU6mX8HLJDX%2FJOEEiPKOQO6Y%0AAsRVs3gIqQ%3D%3D

But at this moment in time I've not noticed any difference at all tbh! The Avensis sounded louder with running it with V-Power. But the Polo sounds slightly quieter. I've read an awful lot about the differences between the mineral and semi 2T oils and so bought the Wilko's stuff as the semi meets the high standards that the full synths have and some of the ester based 2T... Jury is out on this one for me atm! Maybe its not a good idea to have 2T in with V-Power??? Unsure...

[Daveyonthemove]

You may find the Vpower is burning at its cleanest without an additive, and the 2T has prevented a clean burn.

In Shell Fuesave it seems to have made a difference (For me).

What Derv are you putting in the polo?

[CharlieFarlie]

Lot of reading there!

Does anyone add it to their Rav? Would it benefit the 180 engine?

Toyota are replacing 2.2 2AD engines because of oil consumption or should I say excessive oil consumption. Burning oil in these engines can and will affect the Dcat elements like the Diesel particulate filters and catalytic converter.

So putting oil into your fuel will mean adding to the problem ?

I asked a top technician at a very highly recognised Jaguar tuners that approved by Jaguar so are no fools about the practice of adding 2ST oil to the diesel fuel.. His reply was that it was in His opinion absolutely stupid and a practice He would strongly advise against.......

[Mistermena]

You may find the Vpower is burning at its cleanest without an additive, and the 2T has prevented a clean burn.

In Shell Fuesave it seems to have made a difference (For me).

What Derv are you putting in the polo?

I think you could be right with the 2T in the V-Power derv mate. The Polo had Tesco's diesel in in as I had a 10p off voucher and couldn't afford to let that discount go! Could be because I used the semi 2T and not the mineral oil?

[jedi134]

Your not surpose to use synthetics, just the pure mineral based stuff...

That's what's all the forums are saying :D

I,m still trying really hard to feel any benifits from it??

Is redex any good? Got a bottle of that in the boot.

[Daveyonthemove]

Lot of reading there!

Does anyone add it to their Rav? Would it benefit the 180 engine?

Toyota are replacing 2.2 2AD engines because of oil consumption or should I say excessive oil consumption. Burning oil in these engines can and will affect the Dcat elements like the Diesel particulate filters and catalytic converter.

So putting oil into your fuel will mean adding to the problem ?

I asked a top technician at a very highly recognised Jaguar tuners that approved by Jaguar so are no fools about the practice of adding 2ST oil to the diesel fuel.. His reply was that it was in His opinion absolutely stupid and a practice He would strongly advise against.......

Charlie,

Whilst I don't doubt for minute that your contact at Jaguar knows his stuff, You were telling everyone on this forum (not that long ago) that your neighbour worked on a refinery and that ALL diesel was the same, then you recently spoke to someone else who convinced you that it isn't, and now you promote Vpower.

There is evidence out there that 2T burns cleaner than diesel does, so by that theory it shouldn't add any soot to the system, and may even help the diesel to burn cleaner due to emulsification (sp?).

My thoughts are, if petrol engines can burn 2T and keep components clean and lubricated, a diesel engine should manage it too, and Vpower is probably as clean as it can be and doesn't need the 2T for improvement.

[CharlieFarlie]

Lot of reading there!

Does anyone add it to their Rav? Would it benefit the 180 engine?

Toyota are replacing 2.2 2AD engines because of oil consumption or should I say excessive oil consumption. Burning oil in these engines can and will affect the Dcat elements like the Diesel particulate filters and catalytic converter.

So putting oil into your fuel will mean adding to the problem ?

I asked a top technician at a very highly recognised Jaguar tuners that approved by Jaguar so are no fools about the practice of adding 2ST oil to the diesel fuel.. His reply was that it was in His opinion absolutely stupid and a practice He would strongly advise against.......

Charlie,

Whilst I don't doubt for minute that your contact at Jaguar knows his stuff, You were telling everyone on this forum (not that long ago) that your neighbour worked on a refinery and that ALL diesel was the same, then you recently spoke to someone else who convinced you that it isn't, and now you promote Vpower.

There is evidence out there that 2T burns cleaner than diesel does, so by that theory it shouldn't add any soot to the system, and may even help the diesel to burn cleaner due to emulsification (sp?).

My thoughts are, if petrol engines can burn 2T and keep components clean and lubricated, a diesel engine should manage it too, and Vpower is probably as clean as it can be and doesn't need the 2T for improvement.

I have openly admitted to being a convert to Vpower.. Yes all the fuels are the same base stuff and I accept the that additives are put in afterwards...

Its entirely each persons choice of course but do You not feel that with all the problems with the 2AD engines and that is what the OP has its questionable putting anything in ??

This topic has been done to death.....................

[Daveyonthemove]

I can see the concerns, and agree that it would be silly to put anything into the tank without research first.

But depending on which 'expert' you speak to, depends on which answer you get, and then it is down to the individual to decide which answer/advice to follow.

I've decided to try it and pass on my findings, but that doesn't mean everyone should do it. I feel its a low risk, and would rather add it to my tank than run it on Asda's finest.

All personal choice, and we are all entitled to take it or leave it :)

[Daveyonthemove]

I was thinking a bit more about this last night after I logged off, and remembered an additive that we use in Afghan at the moment.

There is NO diesel supply for military vehicles out there but there is an abundance of Aviation fuel (Avtur/Jet A1).

We used to run the vehicles on neat Avtur, and they would drive along fine, but soon started to suffer with damaged fuel pumps due to the lack of lubrication.

Now, ALL the vehicles out there running on Aviation fuel mixed with an oil based additive to provide the lubrication that Avtur is missing. I can't remember the name of it, but I do remember that we used to add ONE tin (500ml) to 4000 litres of aviation fuel before it went near a vehicle.

If I remember the name of this stuff I will try and find out more about it, but I do know that it was oil based as I got some on my hands and it was very oily and smelly (much like diesel).

[anchorman]

I won't be adding anything oil based to my fuel for any reason.

I can hear the difference in diesel knock on a cold morning when using high grade fuel over supermarket fuel (more so on my 2006 RAV than these 2AF engines) and have seen enough EGRs to know the soot produced is soft instead of crusty.

Failing something tangible, I tend to revert to my brake testing days where subjective opinion was risky and we had to measure results. I would have to see some proper test results before knowing what the long term benefits or risks of adding anything to fuel on a regular basis would do to an engine. I have added some BG244 fuel system cleaner to the current tank of fuel but that was specifically to remove any older deposits if carbon that may have been left by the previous owner and whatever fuel he might have used. However, when its gone its gone and nothing more than high grade fuel will be going in.

Just remember what 2 stroke oil is. It is specifically designed to leave an oily residue on the surfaces of the crankcase of a motor cycle or lawn mower engine that have no other means of lubrication. The engines go like hell with no forced lubrication so this 2 stroke oil must really be capable of really coating surfaces and that is while being diluted with petrol. As Charlie is suggesting, it is not a case of what it does inside the cylinder but you have to be mindful of what it does elswhere like the EGR and the cataylitic converter and if you have a DPF D-CAT engine you are asking for trouble. The whole basis of the current engine program that must be costing Toyota millions is to stop oil burning from ruining engines and there are some of you out there adding it to fuel.

Its up to you but I am firmly on the no additives, just good quality fuel side of the fence until somebody comes up with some proper test results and not just subjective opinion.

[jedi134]

Maybe the 2T burns differently as its atomised through the injectors.............maybe the 2T lubricates the diesels burn rate?.....more

There are a lot of reports, espesically in LR world that the emmissions are lower with 2T in the tank.

But why will it burn cleaner than diesel I dont understand?

[Mistermena]

I'm not sure either why it burns better than derv! I noticed that with the Wilko's semi 2T it was a pink color! and the mineral is green! Maybe its because Toyota put there pink anti freeze in the stuff when I wasn't looking!

[jedi134]

Tescos is red/pink in colour.............But its been sold out for a while now?????????

I canni get hold of any...

A techi probably though the anti freeze was a fuel additive :D

this is what I use:

[Tech01]

Ignore the colour - it indicates nothing, except the manufacturer's preference . . . just like Antifreeze.

Possible damage to Cats (Anchorman)? I've just bought some Motul Motomix 100, JB, mineral, green!, made in France. The container states "Suitable for catalytic converters". Bikes have these too, it seems, and their 2T mix is 1:25, 1:40, 1:50 etc. We're speaking about 1:200, and in diesels, which mostly have simple ceramic oxidation boxes, and not the platinum-based multi-reaction catalysts that are used in petrol vehicles.

IMHO, diesels are essentially oil-burners - some will run on almost anything, as long as it's not gummy, it will atomize, and it is somewhat lubricative. 2T oil is designed, surely, to have all these qualities, and to be run through some high-revving performance engines.

It's possible, of course that very recent diesel engines (DCat?) have become quite fussy about what goes past and through their sensors and exhaust systems. Some latest diesels now have additional small fuel tanks for the special (and very expensive) DPF-cleaning fluid, which is dispensed automatically...

See http://www.theaa.com...te-filters.html

"The additive is stored in a separate tank and is automatically mixed with the fuel whenever you fill up. Only very small quantities are used though so a litre of additive should treat around 2800 litres of fuel – enough to cover 25,000 miles at 40mpg.

You will have to pay to get the additive tank refilled at some time in the car's life, and we've heard reports of dealers charging up to £200 to re-fill a half empty tank."

- or Google DPF fluid.

I'm quite happy not to run one of these.

Chris

[jedi134]

DPF fluid, Blimey what ever next, I also am glad I don't have one of these vehicles. Next car will have to be petrol :D