Which Automatic Transmission ?

[ROBBIENUD]

Hello. I am about to order a Toyota Yaris 2012 model. I have never driven a car with an automatic transmission and would appreciate advice from those experienced with these. Choice is between a gasoline 1.33 with a 7 speed Multi drive system and a diesel with 6 speed C-drive. The purchase cost is very similar so makes little difference. Whilst the 7 speed is a new fitting I understand that the 6 speed multi drive has been around a long time. Basically, which is the best of the two types of transmsiion both in use and for reliability ?. Are the figures given for fuel consumption for the automatic versions anywhere near to reality. ( I have Renault Clio diesel which Renault advertise as covering 70 mpg but over 4 years has averaged 55 mpg, driven normally).

I have never owned a Toyota before but liked the look of the new Yaris and here in Spain very few manufacturers offer a small engined automatic. I visited my local dealer and was quite impressed with the whole car.

I would welcome any advice/comments, good or bad. Thankyou. Brian W.

[MikeSh]

Not sure about your terminologies, but unless Spain gets very different specs I suspect these are both just the latest MMT transmissions, which use the same gearbox as the 'manual' cars but with electric actuators for clutch and shift. As such they are fairly mature now. The 7 speed is probably new, the 6 was introduced on the Yaris at the midlife upgrade a few years back (we have a late 2008 diesel which has the preceding 5 speed box) so I wouldn't really call it "a long time".

Personally, unless there really is something new and wonderful about the 7, I'd go for the 6 as it probably has had any rough bits shaken out by now. An extra gear is also another lot of bits to fail, and I really wonder how many gears a small car needs - it doesn't need to get to 150mph! On the other hand whether you need/want a diesel or petrol is probably the more important choice.

Which brings us to fuel consumption. Yes the manufacturers figures are usually optimistic, but it does depend a lot on the driver. Our diesel Yaris gives me 55mpg, but my wife only gets 50. Eg. approaching a red light she still has power on when I'd be braking gently - and it shows at the pump :)

But as a ballpark I generally knock 10% off the quoted combined cycle figure (so 60mpg I'd assume would be 54 for me) when comparing and working out costs. (Remember too that diesel may be more expensive than petrol - it is in the UK).

For MMT automatics the fuel consumption should in theory be the same as the manual - it's the same drivetrain, unlike (eg.) a Borg-Warner automatic. Any differences in the figures are probably due to the manual having to be 'driven' to the test rules, whereas the auto will change when it wants, or simply that they were different cars/days at the test centre, rather than any fundamental difference in the transmissions.

[mrpj]

The 7 speed Multidrive is a CVT version. As far as I'm aware the Mk 3 Yaris no longer has the MMT. (sensible Toyota have ditched it!)

The C Drive is 6 speed manual.

[Red Yaris 54]

The 7 speed Multidrive is an extremely smooth and efficient transmission which totally replaces the old MMT system

On my New Verso S the Multidrive transmission gives greater economy and lower emissions than the manual gearbox

Having previously owned an MMT Yaris (Which never gave me any problems) I must say that the Multidrive CVT system is a much better system!

[MikeSh]

Er. CVT = Continuously Variable Transmission, which begs the question "Why is it called 7 speed?" Summat odd here.

CVTs have been a mixed bag over the years (since the Daf Variomatic). I know they are still used on some vehicles, but I've seen a few come and go. I'm not sure I'd put my money on CVT over MMT right now, at least at the budget end of the car market.

[Cyker]

Wait and get the HSD Yaris; Only automatic transmission worth having IMHO. :)

Avoid MMT-style semi-auto like the plague.

[Red Yaris 54]

Er. CVT = Continuously Variable Transmission, which begs the question "Why is it called 7 speed?" Summat odd here.

CVTs have been a mixed bag over the years (since the Daf Variomatic). I know they are still used on some vehicles, but I've seen a few come and go. I'm not sure I'd put my money on CVT over MMT right now, at least at the budget end of the car market.

CVT (Continuously Variable) has come on a long way since the DAF Variomatic and the subsequent Volvo

It is now a fully reliable and well developed system used on many vehicles worldwide

The seven speed comes into play when the CVT transmission is selected in "Manual" operation mode which uses either paddle shift on the steering wheel or selector stick forward to change up , backward to change down

When in manual mode there are 7 selectable gear ranges which give the "7 speed box"

An advantage of this clever system is that when slowing down to a stop the gear ratios change down and if the driver tries to select a gear too high or low for the given road speed the selector system will not allow the gear change

I have completed many thousands of miles with this modern CVT box and it has been the smoothest system I have known in over 40 years of motoring

[mrpj]

Er. CVT = Continuously Variable Transmission, which begs the question "Why is it called 7 speed?" Summat odd here.

CVTs have been a mixed bag over the years (since the Daf Variomatic). I know they are still used on some vehicles, but I've seen a few come and go. I'm not sure I'd put my money on CVT over MMT right now, at least at the budget end of the car market.

Nothing odd at all. Because, like the 7 speed CVT Honda Jazz, you may "manually" change speed yourself using the "flappy paddles" on the steering column. On the Jazz there is a button on the steering wheel for manual mode.

The modern CVT is far superior to the appalling MMT. In fact I'm considering a Verso S or another Jazz with the same transmission. The Jazz has it at the moment because of it's superior build quality.

Red Yaris beat me to it.

[Madasafish]

The Prius gearbox is CVT.. few if any problems..

Modern materials and design coupled with modern lubricants mean a lot has changed for the better since DAF days.. (unless it's an Audi of course: Multitronic = MultiChronic:-)

[MikeSh]

The modern CVT is far superior to the appalling MMT. In fact I'm considering a Verso S or another Jazz with the same transmission. The Jazz has it at the moment because of it's superior build quality.

Funnily enough, when we got our Yaris a few years back I was also considering the Jazz. One reason I didn't get one in the end was that my research turned up a lot of people having trouble with the CVT - more than were having issues with the Yaris MMT.

MMT is a bit wierd when you're used to a 'less discontinuous' automatic, but having got used to it I don't have a problem with it now (just got an Aygo MMT as well in fact). I agree that CVT is great when it works (had a DAF55, two Micras and a Fiesta with it) but the manufacturers always seem to let something poor get into it somewhere. The Micras were good, but the magnetic clutch was not good with ageing ... the Fiesta was just horrible.

The VW DSG always looked good to me, but too pricey for my needs.

[mrpj]

I've been driving a 5 year old CVT Jazz since disposing of a 7 months old MMT Yaris. I think there was a routine/recommended transmission oil/fluid change at the 40000 miles service, other than that it has been faultless, as has been the rest of the Jazz which I inherited from F in Law.

I did get used to the MMT and managed mostly seamless gearchanges in "E" mode but it's unpredictability was the deciding negative factor. i.e. changing from 2nd to 1st at 25 mph, failing to change up from 1st to 2nd(tacho at 4500 rev/min and still it wouldn't change, not even manually using the "paddles"), failure to change from 5th to 6th until 75-80 mph (Toyota said that was for economy reasons w.t.f.) and totally illogical gearchanges when any sane person wouldn't! Supplying dealer said that was perfectly normal! There were other "quality" issues with the Yaris too.

I have test driven a DSG and thought it excellent, far superior to the MMT but in my opinion not as good as a modern CVT.

[ROBBIENUD]

Thank you to all who replied. The 2012 Yaris is available in Spain with a 6 speed C-Drive automatic when fitted with a 1.4 diesel engine and a "7 speed" CVT automatic when fitted with the 1.33 petrol engine. Diesel fuel is a little cheaper than petrol at the moment although the gap is lessening all the while.

The salesman at the Toyota agency recommended the 6 speed version as the first choice, price here in Spain is almost the same so it makes very little difference to choice. I am used to diesel low down pulling power and think this will be my choice. Again thank you to all.

[Gavioli]

I purchased a 2010 Yaris with auto gearbox last November. The gearbox is `odd` to say the least. When changing up, the vehicle slows frighteningly until the gear is selected which, when pulling out of a junction with fast traffic in the distance coming towards you, is dangerous. Prior to my current car, I have always driven vehicles with a manual gearbox. 55 years of this, and driving what the Toyota company call `automatic`, and the change is an uncomfortable one.

I received no instruction from the main Toyota dealer and had to sort out how to change gear smoothly, all by myself. It is possible to do a smooth gear change without using paddles.

After a few days or so, you will be able to recognise by the engine note, when the gear is about to change up. At, or preferably a little before this point, ease back on the throttle. Wait for two seconds and when the engine note changes again, accelerate. The problem is, if the driver has to go to this trouble to change a gear smoothly, then surely, he may as well be driving a manual ?

[Wiz201]

I passed my test with an automatic only license as I couldn't cope with the manual gear stick. The MMT gear box with a simple up and down stick is much easier so I can drive this in manual mode perfectly well. I get away with driving a car with this gear box as its got an automated clutch.

[MikeSh]

I purchased a 2010 Yaris with auto gearbox last November. The gearbox is `odd` to say the least. When changing up, the vehicle slows frighteningly until the gear is selected which, when pulling out of a junction with fast traffic in the distance coming towards you, is dangerous. Prior to my current car, I have always driven vehicles with a manual gearbox. 55 years of this, and driving what the Toyota company call `automatic`, and the change is an uncomfortable one.

I received no instruction from the main Toyota dealer and had to sort out how to change gear smoothly, all by myself. It is possible to do a smooth gear change without using paddles.

After a few days or so, you will be able to recognise by the engine note, when the gear is about to change up. At, or preferably a little before this point, ease back on the throttle. Wait for two seconds and when the engine note changes again, accelerate. The problem is, if the driver has to go to this trouble to change a gear smoothly, then surely, he may as well be driving a manual ?

Fiddling with the throttle trying to second guess the system will confuse the controller and possibly make things worse. Just keep the same throttle setting and let the car sort it out (it backs off the throttle itself anyway while changing gear).

It does feel very odd when you are used to a manual (I think it's partly because you feel like you are falling out of the seat as you aren't pushing against a clutch pedal), but give it time and you will get used to it. As a passenger it's just the same as being driven in a manual car (though probably smoother in many cases, especially downshifting).