New Rav4 Owner - Not Impressed!

[CharlieFarlie]

I am going to make a final post here before this turns into another I hate Toyota thread because I do not hate Toyota !

Also because I believe emotion will take over as being called a Troll after the amount if Input I have tried to put into this Forum might just make Me make a disrespectful comment to a Female Member .. And that is not something I wish to do..

I do NOT hate Toyota or I would not be seeking to rid Myself of the car I have and be replacing it with a brand new SR.

The car I have is a brilliant but flawed car that I cannot live with any longer and that really is a shame.. I sincerely hope My loyalties are not misplaced if and when I buy another Toyota knowing what I know now...

[local hero]

I've been on this site reading posts for a few weeks now, and I'm amazed how many people claim to own a Rav, but hate it. Then why did you buy it? I have only had mine for just over 2 months but love it. I researched it for months, looking at other 4x4's and reviews, and am very happy with my choice. I had a corolla verso for 3 years before this, and it was extreamly reliable and only costs where 2 new tyres. My boyfriend has a Yaris which he thinks is great. We have had very good service from our 2 local Toyota dealers (one of them gave me a great deal on my old car). Come on people, lets hear it for Toyota and give the trolls a wide berth.

I've had three Ravs on the bounce, loved them all and still do, never had a problem (recent Battery) but have to agree standards have slipped, but i think thats true of all new vehicles which are built to a budget, and have to comply with ever increasing emissions legislation, Someone in the know once told me, where toyota used to go to a supplier and say for eg, make me a shock absorber to this specification, they now have to say make me a shock absorber for under £20, and thats the difference Stew

[DjRav]

I love driving the Rav and think the problems voiced here are in a minority by far. Mines a 57 plate and I have no issues with it at all. I would recommend it in a heart beat. As for going to buy a Freelander- GOOD LUCK. LR generally make owning a Toyota look like the smart move. I've had 3 landrovers (and still got the last one) and they've all had major issues-

The first one I literally spent longer fixing it than driving it.

The second had sections of chassis replaced as it literally fell apart once when I jacked it up to change a tyre (and it needed a new engine a week after I sold it!!)

The third I still own, done 110,000 miles in it and it's been to the garage for repairs aprox 30+ times!

Roof leaks

Suspension fails (regularly)

Strange lights come on

Fuel leaks (x3) £300 each time

Prop shaft failed

Plus many other problems, usually costing £300-£400 but some were over £2000

I love my Toyota! It's a joy to get into after all the other vehicles I drive.

Dave

[Big Kev]

I am going to make a final post here before this turns into another I hate Toyota thread because I do not hate Toyota !

Also because I believe emotion will take over as being called a Troll after the amount if Input I have tried to put into this Forum might just make Me make a disrespectful comment to a Female Member .. And that is not something I wish to do..

I do NOT hate Toyota or I would not be seeking to rid Myself of the car I have and be replacing it with a brand new SR.

The car I have is a brilliant but flawed car that I cannot live with any longer and that really is a shame.. I sincerely hope My loyalties are not misplaced if and when I buy another Toyota knowing what I know now...

Perfect summation Small Chap.....I think there is nothing to beat my SR180 thus far, both in the buying experience, running experience and costs (both voluntary

and involuntary), but should the day come that it goes on to its THIRD engine, I will be teaching folks on here words they never knew existed.......)

There are many thousands out there totally unaware of this forum, and the possible inherent problems of owning a 2AD engined version.....A MODICUM OF PERSPECTIVE BETWEEN THE WELL REPORTED NEGATIVES AND THE UNKNOWN POSITIVES IS WHAT I CURRENTLY STRIVE FOR......WHIT....????

Big Kev

[jedi134]

I belive the quality problems will get worse as every manufacturer gears up for the Chinese market, They love their cheap tat :D. Europe is in crisis, there is a global slowdown....I don't think anyone what's to commit themselves?

I compare my 2005 rav to these newer ones and Cant belive how many problems the later ones are having.....they just dont make them like they used to..

[anchorman]

Charlie

Don't misunderstand me, when I say there will be no mention of duff engines I mean that if you trade yours it will go on the forecourt at full retail. I personally would never have had a 180 engined vehicle because I wouldn't benefit from the extra power. I could never reconcile the RFTs or those silly TPMS systems.

I have to admit that the early ones had a notchy gear change and although the new ones are not flawless they are very acceptable if you take your time shifting.

If you are thinking of a new RAV (have you tried one?) I don't think you will miss the power as this thing of mine will catch pigeons. I don't know about the auto box but Hoovie can probably comment.

Davrav

I'm surprised that you think the door is being shut after the horse has gone. I have known really bad problems go right through production runs and sometimes with Merc, BMW and the rest of the so called legendary brands. The problems are definitely solved with the 150 engines and they have resolved the early engines with a series of production changes and for those with an early vehicle are hitting it in one with a 3/4 engine.

I know what Jen means. Anyone who hasn't driven a RAV with a 150 engine won't appreciate how different they are and Jen won't have the same appreciation of a very early RAV - they are poles apart. Ok "troll" is a bit severe but it does sound to an onlooker as if there are very critical comments.

I know that you don't mean it Charlie and are fundamentally happy with Toyota. If I'm brutally honest, an early T180 is possibly not the best example and not representative of an evolved RAV. Give that SR a good coat of looking at.

I sold my 2006 XT4 in 2010 for £13k with 20k on the clock. I suppose with 2 newer models anything around 5 figures isn't too bad for a similar aged T180 isn't bad is it? I would have more concerns about the wheels than the engine but you have resolved that so yours would make a nice private sale. See what they will give you at trade in then bung 500-1000 on private.

You should be looking for around 4k off list on a new SR as well.

[Davrav]

Davrav

I'm surprised that you think the door is being shut after the horse has gone. I have known really bad problems go right through production runs and sometimes with Merc, BMW and the rest of the so called legendary brands. The problems are definitely solved with the 150 engines and they have resolved the early engines with a series of production changes and for those with an early vehicle are hitting it in one with a 3/4 engine.

Well I guess that what I'm driving at is that I would really have expected the problem to have been ironed out in testing and development of the engine. Did Toyota rush this stage to get the engine into production too quickly I wonder? Or was it a case of poor quality control or quality assurance.

Whatever the case it was a pretty big !Removed! to drop. It must be a very expensive operation for them now.

[Scorpion-gb]

Good grief! I almost bought a 57 plate 4.3 before I decided I prefered the shape of the 4.2. It was up for sale for only £1500 more than I paid for my 55 plate XTR, now I know why!

Remember a couple of weeks ago when I said I was a little disappointed with my new purchase? Well I take it all back. I'm now used to changing gear a little later, and the annoying squeak was fixed by fitting 3 plastic securing plugs in the scuttle below the windscreen, total cost - £2.99 for 10 from eBay!

I'm still a little wary of the good old DMF issue but hey, it may never happen (crosses fingers an touches wood as he types this). Looks like I dodged the bullet by not going for the newer model.

[MikeHarris]

I love driving the Rav and think the problems voiced here are in a minority by far. Mines a 57 plate and I have no issues with it at all. I would recommend it in a heart beat. As for going to buy a Freelander- GOOD LUCK. LR generally make owning a Toyota look like the smart move. I've had 3 landrovers (and still got the last one) and they've all had major issues-

Don't get me wrong, I wanted a small 4x4 and went for the Rav because of my pre 2006 Rav I owned (which was great although basic) and because of my prior history and that given the choice I would go for a Toyota everytime. Prior to this problem leading to me discovering the many more problems related with the 06-on models I would tell everyone I knew to buy Japanese and go for Toyota or Honda as they have been my preferred brands for years.

I agree that in general LandRover have a terrible reputation and have heard many stories including a friend of the family who bought a new Range Rover Sport for around £55k and broke down on the way home from the dealership to then be messed around for months and have the engine rebuilt twice. However the Freelander2 seems to be an exception to the LR rule of reliability, doing general searches online for reported reliability you will see the Freelander beating the Rav although the Rav is in the top 10 compact SUV's.... http://www.reliabilityindex.com/ratings/best/Compact%20SUV

[DjRav]

I think it's apples and oranges to compare the Rav to the Freelander. The Freelander will more expensive to buy/insure/service/tax/repair. And I believe WILL prove much less reliable in the long run. If you need to be off-roading you might think LR, but in the snow my Rav beat the Discovery I've got hands down!

It really depends what you want but I bought a small economic (main reason for final decision) and reliable (yes they are!) car.

No regrets so far!

Dave

[crustyclam]

Does Your car have any extras ? Style pack ? ect ect ?? My one is a 56 plate but registered in late 06. Matters not really. I paid sod all for My one but it doesn't mean I'm going to give it away... Also bear in mind that My one had a brand new not re manufactured engine just last week and the trade in figures look even sadder..

I bought mine from a dealer in December and mine is mid 2006, ithe price advertised was £10,900. Wouldn't budge on price, but i got a paint protection applied, leather and carpets cleaned, stain protection..etc (price listed as £300). They also removed a dent and all the scratches i pointed out. Intermediate service carried out. So actual invoice price was £10,600 for vehicle

Comes with side sillls and the front grill protector (style pack??)

Given what was done, the prices for private listings, and some of the overpriced examples by delears i think the price i payed is reasonable, so not sure what they would have payed for trade on mine, but i guess they are in the business to make some profit.

Plus with the exceptional dealer backup i must admit it has worked out well. I hope you get a good price for yours and someone will be getting a great car with all the work carried out.

[anchorman]

Davrav

I'm surprised that you think the door is being shut after the horse has gone. I have known really bad problems go right through production runs and sometimes with Merc, BMW and the rest of the so called legendary brands. The problems are definitely solved with the 150 engines and they have resolved the early engines with a series of production changes and for those with an early vehicle are hitting it in one with a 3/4 engine.

Well I guess that what I'm driving at is that I would really have expected the problem to have been ironed out in testing and development of the engine. Did Toyota rush this stage to get the engine into production too quickly I wonder? Or was it a case of poor quality control or quality assurance.

Whatever the case it was a pretty big !Removed! to drop. It must be a very expensive operation for them now.

Well I've said it all along that the biggest market for this vehicle by a long chalk is the US with their petrol engined variants.

I'm fairly sure the testing and development for the European diesel version will have been done in Belgium and yes it would seem that they didn't develop it for long enough to realise the oil consumption problem.

I did 17 years brake testing and development and that is what happens, you do lots of "in house" testing on a rig and then get some out on a track and then you try and push out into the field IF you have a suitable platform. The trouble is that you can't always get a wide enough sample of vehicles out because Mr Auto Express is always trying to photograph the product before it is launched so you have to build a hybrid and cobble an engine (or brakes) into something else in the range like one of the exisisting Toyota 4WDs. They are never quite representative though and with the best will in the world there comes a point where you have to say that there has been enough testing. They will use some experience and some statistics to assess the risk and then at some stage they will release it to the market.

No manufacturer of any product would ever launch knowing that there was unacceptable risk but all manufacturers including the biggies like Ford and GM make similar calculated risks and all we see in our little RAV4 bubble is RAV4s. Just have a browse around other forums and see - we are not the worst off by a long chalk.

As for LRs, don't get me started. I bought my current RAV from a LR dealership in Stockton. They were lovely people and the place was busy. I will never understand anybody but a misinformed farmer on a tax fiddle buying a Defender but some of the others looked quite nice. That is where it stops for me. There are some owners who have been quite lucky but the majority have problems and some are horrendously expensive. There is none of the goodwill shown by Toyota and all but very rare exceptions are in the hands of the owner. I would accept that kind of risk with a Ssangyong not an overpriced under engineered liability that for most is only a status symbol.

[Hoovie]

I am not really mechanically minded, so don't know much about engines etc, but in terms of getting a product to market, there will always be glitches and issues no matter if you are talking cars, computers or kettles.

How many updates have there been to the computer you are reading this on? And the vast majority of those were not introducing new benefits and features, but fixing things that you could easily - and with the same justification as you might make on a component in a car - say that should have been sorted before it left the manufacturer and got to you.

If a supplier (any supplier) actually made sure that their product was 100% perfect by doing extensive enough testing to iron out every possible conceivable issue then 3 things would be true of any complex product ....

1) Their product would be horrendously expensive

2) Their product would be 5 years out of date compared to their competition

3) You would never see it anyway as they would be out of business.

Personally speaking I don't expect anything to be perfect anymore (was it ever?) and have noticed that just about everything seems to go wrong more frequently then it used to, but that is down to just everything getting more and more complex due to customer demand. How many times do you pick up a mobile PHONE to make a PHONE call, as opposed to use the internet, take photos, send a text message, etc?

As far as Toyota and the RAV4 goes, as I have mentioned elsewhere, I had no hesitation in buying a RAV4.3 although I knew that there was a history behind the engine (and that Toyota were managing that at no cost to the owner), I knew about the BSR system, and how THAT was a bad idea from the outset - and therefore I would avoid an BSR equipped vehicle and as I was buying a "SR" Spec RAV4, I made sure again for my own peace of mind that it didn't have run-flats. I also knew not to expect too much in the way of economy from a pretty un-aerodynamic and heavy vehicle with a AWD system. My fuel usage has gone up 50% a mile from the car I swapped from, but that's life and a payoff for having a capable car for all seasons with good handling, a decent turn of speed and a very relaxing drive with the autobox.

If I didn't buy the RAV4, what could I have bought? Well, on that link to the reliability index of "Compact SUVs" I see that way ahead of anything else is the 'Honda HR-V' - a score of '6' where '100' is the average.

Magic Stuff :) - Well I had a Honda HR-V as it happens, and it was a very good and reliable car. One thing went wrong on it though ... the Exhaust Manifold cracked - a very odd thing to happen I thought and as I didn't have any extended warranty (Hondas are #1 reliability wise so why bother, huh?), I had to pay £350 to have it replaced.

And funnily enough, I read just a week back or so that this cracked manifold is actually a known issue now.

So if the #1 model for reliability has known issues, I bet every other car on that list has plenty of their own as well.

Hence the buying of a RAV4, with eyes open, knowing it is not perfect, knowing what models to avoid (sorry, T180/SR180 owners and RAV4.2 D4D owners) and knowing that Toyota is possibly second to none in addressing issues - or at least managing them - in a wholly appropriate and laudable way (going to put the BSR debacle to one side when I say that though, as that is the ONE thing that has let Toyota down in CS terms IMO) .

Oh, and as an aside on one of the first points made on this thread, sorry, but to complain about the handling of a vehicle in full knowledge that the steering rack is buggered is unreal!

"The ride on my car is terrible!"..... "Did you know you have a flat tyre?" ...."So!"

[Tech01]

Rattles . . . creaking front seats . . . and I'll add a general poor quality of fixing of plastic exterior trim components (useless clips).

OK, as Kingo says, they're all fixable - but still a pain and not what you might expect.

More worrying though is the complaint of worn-out steering rack at 43k. Clunks? Please, please, first check out the front anti-roll bar - the two rubber 'bearing' bushes, and possibly the drop-links. Worn ARB components produce a very definite low-down clunk, just as if someone's hitting the chassis with a mallet.

And 1st-2nd notchy/uncomfortable gearchange? Before looking at anything else, for heavens sake check you haven't got 75W-90 in the box. It's bad enough at any time, but in the winter it can be impossible! If in doubt, drain and refill with either straight (monograde) 75W, or alternatively 75W-80. Believe me, it makes a real difference.

Chris

[cabcurtains]

In an attempt to retain some perspective:

Is the hard shoulder full of Toyota's? - No

Should you check your oil every week, regardless of known potential issues - Yes

Do other manufacturers put engines in 6yr old 100k cars - No

Have Japanese cars ever been solid on interior finish - No

Does a forum breed paranoia - Yes

A public service broadcast from me

[blue monster]

In an attempt to retain some perspective:

Is the hard shoulder full of Toyota's? - No

Should you check your oil every week, regardless of known potential issues - Yes

Do other manufacturers put engines in 6yr old 100k cars - No

Have Japanese cars ever been solid on interior finish - No

Does a forum breed paranoia - Yes

A public service broadcast from me

I couldn't agree more!!

[Parts-King]

In an attempt to retain some perspective:

Is the hard shoulder full of Toyota's? - No

Should you check your oil every week, regardless of known potential issues - Yes

Do other manufacturers put engines in 6yr old 100k cars - No

Have Japanese cars ever been solid on interior finish - No

Does a forum breed paranoia - Yes

A public service broadcast from me

Seems a sensible post to me, I always try and add a bit of balance to a thread, because the scales often tip to the dark side :D: but in this case, i could'nt have said it better myself

Kingo

[MikeHarris]

Hoovie

I never complained about the handling and merely said I didn't like the way it drove in the snow and I don't particularly like the ride either most of which I am comparing to my pre-06 Rav. Most of my miles are done on straight roads or motorways. In terms of the handling, I would have to agree that for a 4x4 it handles particularly well whenever taken on the backroads and could almost be driven like a small hatchback if the roads are wide enough.

In general I am in a very similar situation to Charlie, a love/hate relationship with it. There are many things about it and it fulfills most of my needs and requirements, its very well equipped etc. But after finding out about the engine change and the problems with these engines and now the problem with my steering rack I do not trust it anymore unfortunately.

Tech01

As I have mentioned earlier, it is definitely the steering rack! I have seen it up on the ramp myself and my mechanic friend has showed me the problem that the ball joints on either side of the rack are completely worn out, unfortunately this would normally be a case of just changing the rod ends but in this case those joints are attached to the rack so it requires a completely new rack at a cost of £840 +vat & fitting.

Blue Monster

I agree with most of what you said especially regarding the finish of Japanese cars in general internally. I would still rate Japanese cars as having the best reliability records but the Germans own the market in terms of build refinement and ride quality. I am not sure why I expected more, perhaps because of the huge price tag increase of the 06-on models compared to pre-06 and that Toyota intended the new shape Rav's to compete against the X5.

[Guest]

cough splutter, having just had a look

X5 FROM 45k

X3 FROM 31.5k

X1 FROM 24.5K

given BMW pricing model that probably wont include window glass or a steering wheel

I think the Rav is priced against the X1.

Gus

[MikeHarris]

Just repeating things I have read elsewhere with apparently info from Toyota that the idea was to move the Rav into the bigger luxury 4x4 market. I think that competing against the likes of the X5 was their original intention.

We all know what the range of competitors in its class are, as I am sure anyone who has a Rav when buying would have compared to the likes of: CRV, FL2, Vitara, Santa-Fe, Tiguan, X3, Kuga & Sorrento.

[Parts-King]

Just repeating things I have read elsewhere with apparently info from Toyota that the idea was to move the Rav into the bigger luxury 4x4 market. I think that competing against the likes of the X5 was their original intention.

We all know what the range of competitors in its class are, as I am sure anyone who has a Rav when buying would have compared to the likes of: CRV, FL2, Vitara, Santa-Fe, Tiguan, X3, Kuga & Sorrento.

Toyota have never competed with BMW on any model, thankfully. Every day you here people talk of legendary German engineering and quality, well, having worked in the job all my life, and a bit like LR, I wonder what planet these people are on. VW, BMW, Merc, all have their share of huge problems with their product, its the way the problems are handled that counts

Kingo

[CharlieFarlie]

Sorry but to point the finger at other manufacturers problems is just ridiculous. It does not alleviate the problems some of Us are having with Our cars..

So all German cars are crap ? I have owned over 20 German cars mostly Audi's and the only issue was a juddering clutch 0n an A4 2.0 TDI that was replaced under warranty....

Fords ? Over 60 or 70 ranging from Sierra Cosworths to the latest Mondeo. Well in excess of 100 Ford vans...

Jaguars ?? less of those likely 7 08 including My XFS that I have now....

NONE of the cars I have ever owned has had an engine replaced until I bought the Rav...

None of the cars have had any serious or major problems but perhaps that's because I usually buy new or very near new and dont keep a car for usually more than a year.....

The Rav is only the second Toyota I have ever owned and one of a handful of Jap cars ..

I would still and may likely buy another Rav but this time it will be the SR and will again be New or ex Demo or a pre registered car.. So I'm not that put off..

The reason I'm not that put off is simply the way Toyota have dealt with the problem. Kingo is absolutely spot on when He points out ist not the problem but how its dealt with... But please lets not keep pointing the finger at other manufacturers because for those of Us who have been unlucky it really doesn't help.

Crusty... That Supergaurd costs a fiver for the application sponge ( Personally I would not pay that for it !!) so the price You paid was for the car not the pennies freebies .........

Don would You PM Me where You use or would use for a new SR. If they can offer a better deal than that I have been offered then They likely will get the business..

[jedi134]

I have to agree with Charles, the core engine parts failing twice....big no no in my book

Now I have learnt that if your track rod end ball joints wear out, its a new steering rack, as they are non replacable

Still Toyota have been wonderful in sorting out these problems.......

4.2 ravs are putting these newer Ravs to shame

[Tony Barnsley]

I believe for every decent car there is a buyer.. Ha Ha lets hope they aint been on here..

Oh yes they have ;)

Peanuts Hey??? . . . I might reconsider that offer now

[jedi134]

4 dry roasted and it could be yours :D