Poor Starting Or 'normal' Starting

[stu_cole]

Morning all

It is approaching a month of ownership and the vehicle has problems starting. I reported it to the garage two weeks ago and I have kept a log since of date, time, outside temperature and how many attempts at starting.

It's daily use is normally just to work and back (approx 20 miles each way)

The vehicle is normally started around 07:30 a.m. and then either at 4.00 / 5.00 p.m.

I don't do many short journeys so once the car is started in the morning it sits in the car park at work until I go home.

Once started the car runs fine.

Being a T-Spirit I can't control how the vehicle starts - it's controlled by the button

Can you have a look at the clip and let me have your opinion on if it's normal starting for an Auris or is it something the dealer should look at.

If it is the latter any ideas of what it may be would be appreciated.

My fear is that it is the injectors and obviously would like resolving under the RAC Gold Warranty.

Any feedback would be appreciated

Auris_AH08EXU_26022012_Medium.wmv

AH08EXU_StartingCycles.pdf

AURIS_DISCUSSION_LIST.pdf

[cabcurtains]

Thats a very comprehensive log

Having the radio on makes the video a bit more to difficult to listen to than it should be... On the Auris does pressing the starter button start the car immediately or does it wait until its ready and then start? It looks like it starts straight away which wouldnt give the heater plugs anytime to heat up, does your car have a coil light that isnt visable in the video?

The heater plugs and injectors are able to be tested, but the warranty may not cover the diagnosis costs, personally i would take it back to where you bought it book a courtesy car and leave it overnight. Then ask them to start it first thing and see what they find.

[stu_cole]

Thanks for the feedback

I have kept the spreadsheet to see if it was temperature related and it doesn't appear so as when the outside temperature was warm it was still the same.

There is a coil light and it does illuminate and then go out when the button is pressed - also when the button is pressed it attempts to start straight away - sometimes is turns over once and stops (like in the clip) - other times it will keep the revs at 400 'ish and not fire up and you have to press the button to stop the starting cycle

I have e-mailed the dealer with this information and we'll see what comes back.

Thanks

[cabcurtains]

On our old Verso when you hit the button the car waited until it was ready to fire, it only did it immediately if it had been on a run and just turned off. Whatever is going on its not right, it looks like the beginning of something wearing out, on a positive not the cars fires and doesn’t stop you getting to work. And the warranty has plenty of time left on it if the problem develops further and the issue becomes more pronounced. That will make it easier for the Techi's to diagnose.

[Sandy52]

The diesel Auris 2.0L T Spirit does not always illumintae the heater coils. Only when very cold you may see it-10deg c.

Mine alsways quickly starts even when very cold.

If you are having trouble then dont aboid it and keep looking for a solution.

Easy and cheap way to start looking for the problem is get your Battery checked under load. Any half decent garage can do this in 5 minutes.

[skippy 07]

Hi,

have you tried pushing start button twice to get ignition on 1st, then depressing clutch and starting. found this has helped a great deal with mine.

[Mistermena]

Sounds like a fuel issue to me. I'd be looking at the fuel filter and glow plugs to see if they are working correctly! the starter (As far as I can hear) is cranking over okay. For piece of mind (And if it were my car) I'd change all te filters that could be a cause, including the air and clean the MAF with some CRC spray...

A very good log of the convo's and Q&A!.... Like that :thumbsup: :yes:

[stu_cole]

Evening all - waiting for a response from the dealer - this is tonights starting attempt

Auris_AH08EXU_27022012_Medium.wmv

[cabcurtains]

I'm sticking with my original opinion, leave it overnight and get the heater plugs/injectors tested.

[skippy 07]

I would say that was starting like mine was, which will need the the new modified suction valve. Also supermarket fuel will make it harder to ignite, hope this helps.

[stu_cole]

Thanks Skippy - As I have only had the car for a month this is for the dealer to resolve......unfortunately it's a Honda dealer so dealing with Toyota's is going to be a head scratcher.

The more info I can provide - the better the chance of getting a solution - so, thanks for the additional idea of the suction valve

In the fuel front only used V-Power Diesel (I have a company fuel card)

Cheers

Stu

[stu_cole]

Sods law - Have been contacted by the dealer (yesterday AM) and they are going to have a look - as soon as they ring the car starts perfectly last night and again this morning

Auris_AH08EXU_29022012_AM_Perfect.wmv

[cabcurtains]

I think you have some great evidence with the earlier video's, i would send them to the dealer and ask for their opinion.

V-Power on company fuel card, i hope the fleet manager doesnt come on one of my seminars!!! ;)

[stu_cole]

Update:-

The Honda dealer that retailed the car had a look at it today and they advised that the starting issue "was not normal" - they then advised that it was not the Battery and they suggested I took it to Mr T. I asked if they were going to pay the investigation charges and they are going to get back to me. (Remember I advised the dealer of the problem after 2 weeks of ownership and i've only had the car 5 weeks in total)

I popped in to Mr T and they advised that there was a technical bulletin for an ECU update for poor starting and if this had already been applied then it could well be the injectors........ thank goodness for insisting on a decent warranty just in case.

Could any of the forumineers advise if they have had this ECU update done and what changes if any it made.

Thanks

Stu

(Attachments are rubbish starting this morning (05.03) and starting a couple of days ago (29.02) which is what I would expect)

Auris_FH08EXU_05032012.wmv

Auris_FH08EXU_29022012_PM_Perfect.wmv

[cabcurtains]

That firing and catching then struggling is the same as when the injectors were replaced on my old Verso, i cant see an ECU re-flash sorting that.

Keep fighting the Honda dealer to authorise the investigation at Mr T. I reckon they (Honda) could put a claim in on the warranty for injectors themselves and fit them if they had to.

[stu_cole]

Update:

Mr H (Honda) is going to take the Auris to Mr T on Thursday and hopefully Mr T can offer a fix first time rather than something it might be that it isn't

I have also attached a screen shot of the mileage records I keep - currently i'm around 45 mpg for mixed driving on dual carriage ways / country roads and an odd trip down the motorway. I think this is pretty good considering my style of driving. I've got a big trip from the Midlands to the South Coast at the end of the month so it will be interesting what I get on that journey.

Auris_FH08EXU_06032012_AM.wmv

[cabcurtains]

Slowly but surely you seem to be making progress

Loving the multi coloured fuel logs

[stu_cole]

Update:-

Mr H took the car on Thursday to Mr T - Mr T re-flashed the ECU for the cold starting settings and it is going to be with Mr T until Monday where they will see if it has made any difference starting.

From other posts by forumineers the most likely fault is the injectors so hopefully it plays up on starting and I can have those replaced on the warranty....... this is the one cost that I find scary!

In the interim I have a 1.1 Litre Honda Jazz Automatic....... can you believe that is has a sports setting for the autobox and it has 7 gears on the flappy paddle shifters....... for it's lack of power I am enjoying the 'drive it like you stole it' moment

Cheers

[cabcurtains]

Roll on the Monday call!

1.1 Jazz, awesome

[stu_cole]

Update:- Collected car from Mr H - Mr T had reset the ECU and advised that it started normally under test.

Monday PM: Started fine

Tuesday: Cycled to work

Wednesday AM: Fine

Wednesday PM: Back to sluggish start...... back to keeping the log

Mr T charged Mr H 1.61hrs@£80 per hour with a 20% discount

[Mistermena]

Sounds like its going back to its old tricks again... Bang some BG244 in the fuel if you've not already done so...

[cabcurtains]

What did they do during the 1.61hrs? Test the Injector or Heater Plugs? Or just Reflash the ECU?

[stu_cole]

Hi Taff:- BG244 was put in after three weeks of ownership

Hi Dale:- On the Mr T Invoice:

"Poor starting on cold mornings - cranks over for 15 sec before start.

Customer supplied video / printed evidence to confirm fault.

Test - read fault codes - no codes. Check for ECU software up-grade

Carry out download as req. Morning test. Started correctly - Report

Carried Out independent tests for starting when cold - okay"

[cabcurtains]

Oh dear, looks like they did the reflash and thats it. Time to get another video done again, hopefully there will be a few more cold mornings to come.

[stu_cole]

Update: Looks like the ECU reflash made it slightly easier for the Auris to start but it was a bit rough starting this morning - Mr H has been notified and looks like he'll need to talk to Mr T next week.

Auris_FH08EXU_17032012_AM.wmv