2 Litre Tr Vs 2.2 Litre T Sprint

[timk81]

Heya folks

I don't know much about engines so I'm hoping you can help. I want to see if the dealer I saw today was just blowing wind up my you know what or if there was history to what he said. I told him I had test drove a 2.2 litre T Sprint. He told me not to go near it. I had a spin in his 2 litre TR which was nice too. The sprint is much more affordable purchase wise for me. Does anyone have any insight for me or was it just salesmanship coaxing me into buying from him?

[Heidfirst]

hi & welcome to the forum :)

what were the ages & mileages of both cars?

were both diesel (there used to be a petrol 2.0).

If both diesel then they can both suffer from a head gasket problem but the 2.2 does seem more prone.

However, Toyota have a good (free) extended warranty for this issue within certain criteria.

Other than that all other things being equal I would take a (non-D-CAT) 2.2 over a 2.0.

As for T-Spirit over a TR I think that it really comes down to whether you like leather or not as the TR (certainly of my vintage) has most of the important toys.

[timk81]

Thank you!

The tr is 2008 but I didn't get the mileage. He distracted me by saying he'd get a copy of the tax book when I asked him for all the details.

The t sprint is 2006 with 114 on the clock. Yes, both diesel. I couldn't afford the petrol!

How big an issue/expensive is the head gasket?

What is the (non) D-CAT? I don't understand any of the engine lingo with toyotas.

I've never had leather before so that wouldn't make much of a difference to me. Is that the only difference apart from the sat nav?

[Mistermena]

The HG problem is massive if it goes outside of Toyota good will extended warranty! as it'll need a new engine as they can't be skimmed and new gasket put in due to shuffle. So I'd be very carful about buying one outside the 7 year 112k warranty, unless its already had a new 3/4 engine fitted.

D-Cat is an expensive system if it goes wrong! its a Diesel Particular Filter that has a 5th fuel injector in it to clean up the exhaust emissions...

[Heidfirst]

The tr is 2008 but I didn't get the mileage. He distracted me by saying he'd get a copy of the tax book when I asked him for all the details.

The t sprint is 2006 with 114 on the clock.Yes, both diesel. I couldn't afford the petrol!

but can you afford the maintenance on a high mileage diesel? ;)

modern turbodiesels are complex & not as reliable as old. If you are doing under 20k (certainly under 15k) a year go petrol.

How big an issue/expensive is the head gasket?

big enough that unless it's had the work done already by 112k (the limit of the extended warranty) or the dealer is prepared to warranty it further it's certainly worth considering walking away. The simple truth is that we don't know what % of cars are affected although it's unlikely to be very high or it would be a far more widely known one.

I've never had leather before so that wouldn't make much of a difference to me. Is that the only difference apart from the sat nav?

the 2008 TR will be a facelift model & therefore should have the TNS700 satnav which is the same as the one fitted to T-Spirits of that age.

iirc leather, more electric adjustments on the seat & different alloys were about the only obvious differences.

If the 2006 is a pre-facelift car then there will be more & quite possibly in the later TRs favour..

[cabcurtains]

The tr is 2008 but I didn't get the mileage. He distracted me by saying he'd get a copy of the tax book when I asked him for all the details.

The t sprint is 2006 with 114 on the clock.Yes, both diesel. I couldn't afford the petrol!

but can you afford the maintenance on a high mileage diesel? ;)

modern turbodiesels are complex & not as reliable as old. If you are doing under 20k (certainly under 15k) a year go petrol.

How big an issue/expensive is the head gasket?

big enough that unless it's had the work done already by 112k (the limit of the extended warranty) or the dealer is prepared to warranty it further it's certainly worth considering walking away. The simple truth is that we don't know what % of cars are affected although it's unlikely to be very high or it would be a far more widely known one.

I've never had leather before so that wouldn't make much of a difference to me. Is that the only difference apart from the sat nav?

the 2008 TR will be a facelift model & therefore should have the TNS700 satnav which is the same as the one fitted to T-Spirits of that age.

iirc leather, more electric adjustments on the seat & different alloys were about the only obvious differences.

If the 2006 is a pre-facelift car then there will be more & quite possibly in the later TRs favour..

Totally Agree, 114k Diesel would have me twitching everytime i checked the oil!

[timk81]

The dealer mentioned the good will extended warranty alright. I think it could be worth asking him for the mileage after reading all that. What's a 3/4 engine? My apologies for my ignorance. I had a 99 1.3 petrol Corolla with 160 something on the clock and the lack of issues i had with it is surprising reading this.

Is maintenance that bad on high mileage diesel? I'm currently driving an A6 2.0TDI SE 2005 that just crossed 115k and I definitely don't consider that high because it's so nice to drive.

My mechanic mentioned the more modern cars getting worse due to the increased electrics in them. Would a pre 2005 cause less hassle even with the mileage? I don't have my car a year yet and I've done 18k.

the 2008 TR doesn't have the same sat nav as the 2006 T-Spirit. The TS has the sat nav pop up where the empty compartment is on the rest of the Avensis. I noticed the electrics on the seat alright, that was a nice touch.

i've just had a look and the TS is the newer facelifted model.

Thanks very much for the input, I've learned a lot from you all.

[Mistermena]

A 3/4 engine is basically a new complete engine without the Turbo, air con unit ect... I'd stick to the A6 tbh! I wish I'd kept my A6 3.2! Best car I've ever owned...

[Heidfirst]

Is maintenance that bad on high mileage diesel? I'm currently driving an A6 2.0TDI SE 2005 that just crossed 115k and I definitely don't consider that high because it's so nice to drive.

My mechanic mentioned the more modern cars getting worse due to the increased electrics in them. Would a pre 2005 cause less hassle even with the mileage? I don't have my car a year yet and I've done 18k.

The head/gasket issue is a Toyota only problem for certain D-4D engines produced within a certain time frame & even then only some develop it.

The other issues of modern common rail diesels (DMF, DPF, EGR, injectors, turbos etc.) are common to all manufacturers. Old diesels used to be bulletproof because they were simple.

Do you know if your Audi is Euro IV or Euro V compliant? The more emissions regulation gear fitted the worse they get .

the 2008 TR doesn't have the same sat nav as the 2006 T-Spirit. The TS has the sat nav pop up where the empty compartment is on the rest of the Avensis. I noticed the electrics on the seat alright, that was a nice touch.

i've just had a look and the TS is the newer facelifted model.

if it has the pop-up sat nav I'm not sure that the T-Spirit is a facelift car but certainly the 2008 TR's satnav is later. It will cost you ~£150 for the latest update disc & you can buy you a TomTom or similar for that.

[timk81]

I would stick to the a6 but the dash alarm is driving me nuts. The car's just too sensitive for me. I remember a short time after I got it a brake light went. I had a look to put a new one in myself but was dumb founded when i opened the boot....not a clue! i couldnt afford the mechanic yet so the beeping went on. im spending 100 quid a month on it just for maintenance and tax and im still behind. other than the alarm and bits and pieces i love the car. i just need to be richer. the egr valve went a few months ago. it was a painful 3 months saving for a new one.

i havent a clue about euro iv or v. the mot didnt test for it so i didnt need to worry, even with a broken egr valve.

[cabcurtains]

Any diesel from the last 10yrs has a crazily complex emissions system, thats the problem not the electrics.

[timk81]

I would like to argue that point based on my car. The only issue I had with emissions was the EGR valve. Everything else, bar the jammed seat belt, has been down to the electrics being so sensitive and constantly telling me if something needs attention.

The 2008 TR I drove just came online. Is 66k fair/safe mileage? Would it be worth extending my loan to get it if my mechanic okayed the car?

[Heidfirst]

well, the only unusual risk on it compared to another modern td is the potential headgasket issue & it's covered by the Toyota extended warranty against that until 2015 or 112K miles whichever comes first.

the standard headlight bulbs (dip & high beam) are pretty poor so you might want to budget ~£50 to replace those if you do a lot of night driving.

Similarly, when the time comes to replace brake discs or pads you can improve on the standard oem ones (actually at less cost).