Engine Number 3 ?

[CharlieFarlie]

sounds like the dealer is pulling out all the stops charlie, i too remain sceptical like you about certain explanations in the above but i reckon the problem will resurface before you get home if its not fixed right or they are talking crap

Once the car comes back it will be doing 80 to 90 miles a day until I return home which is 360 miles.. So yes Mate it will get a proper test..

If I smell the burning again I will just continue driving irrespective of whether it blows its self to smithereens ..

You are right though the Dealer is outstanding and I have confidence in them.. I just somehow cant believe all that smoke was without a more serious cause than a wee bit of overheating................ But then I am no mechanic

[Tony Barnsley]

I thought they had an engine temperature warning light of course the sensor could have failed but then surely a sensor failure would record a fault code . . . In fact I would have though that a sensor fail would be an automatic open circuit (Fail safe) . . . Like you I would be sceptical, I know just how far you don't have to travel with an overheating engine to really screw up the block and head

[Manxrav]

Cheers Charlie for update, keep us in the loop.

Regards Clare

[Mistermena]

I'm glad to hear that they are 110% confident that the car will be returned to you in tip top condition mate! :) It does look like the dealer is pulling out all the stops to get it done right. I agree, that if I smelt burning now after the car is returned I'd let the engine blow to smithereens to pal.

[CharlieFarlie]

I thought they had an engine temperature warning light of course the sensor could have failed but then surely a sensor failure would record a fault code . . . In fact I would have though that a sensor fail would be an automatic open circuit (Fail safe) . . . Like you I would be sceptical, I know just how far you don't have to travel with an overheating engine to really screw up the block and head

As said Tony several sensors are to be changed...

It is not unusual for a code not to be stored on a cars computer thingy.. I had a new Transit that kept draining the Battery. Several times it was sent into the Dealers to be sorted and several time they refused to change the Battery as no fault was recorded...

So I just let the Battery die and phoned Ford recovery to have the van recovered into the Dealership. Again they said No fault recorded ans sent it back..

3 times that van went onto a recovery truck and 3 times Ford supplied a loan van.. Each time No fault was recorded and a new battery was refused....

So I as usual placed My annual order for 3 brand new vans to be delivered...... Then refused to complete the transaction until the troubled van was sorted... Of course a new battery was fitted ASAP.... That van went on to do 30.000 trouble free miles before it was replaced..

No fault codes ............ MMMMmmmmmmm

[Hoovie]

good luck with it Charlie. Seems you are getting everyones share of bad luck reserved for yourself. Lets hope the tide had turned

[Dale mill]

I though once a diesel engine had over heated that really it was knacked is that not the case?

[Grenadekidffere]

One thing for sure charlie is 7 new sensors will not cure that problem in my book, If the sensors didnt pick it up the first time they wont the second. That only tells me its one of two things. Anchorman said thats the second engine with the same symptoms? is this true, the simplist explanation would be pcv valve blocked causing pressure in sump, not doing any mechanical harm normally but would force oil out through sump seals etc over time, or which ever seal was weakest. Pcv valve would do all this and possibly not trigger any sensors. The second as i mentioned earlier was rings but this is hard to believe in a brand new engine with so little miles. I dont really go with the overheating one, doesnt sound logical in my book with so many sensors nowadays linked to the cooling system and no codes stored. I guess i should have asked you first charlie was there any pressure behind the oil cap when you took it off before i started rambling about pcv valves lol

[anchorman]

I though once a diesel engine had over heated that really it was knacked is that not the case?

Any engine is knackered if you overheat it enough but Charlie caught it in good time.

I suppose we have to keep an open mind until Charlie has got some miles on it. I have never heard of a thermostat going on one of these but if the engine has been worked on I suppose it could get crud jammed in it. They rarely stick shut though - usually open.

[Grenadekidffere]

Eagles may soar high but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

good one Don :D

[Big Kev]

Eagles may soar high but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

good one Don :D

Confusedus he say :...."you can lead a horse to water, but there's no use shutting the barn door and standin' there crying after the bird's flown out the bush and spilt the milk......"

Almost back on topic, I would not give a monkey's if it was George Washington himself who worked at this dealer and was dealing with me.....I would want a chapter and verse explanation of WTF went wrong. Toyota GB should quite simply be drawing a line under this and giving Charlie an attractive trade in against a brand new SR (COMPLETE WITH TIN OPENER FOR DIY SUNROOF...)

Big Kev .......what the going on here....?

[firemac]

I though once a diesel engine had over heated that really it was knacked is that not the case?

Any engine is knackered if you overheat it enough but Charlie caught it in good time.

I suppose we have to keep an open mind until Charlie has got some miles on it. I have never heard of a thermostat going on one of these but if the engine has been worked on I suppose it could get crud jammed in it. They rarely stick shut though - usually open.

I'm no mechanic (although I've done more than my share of spannering over the years) but it's been a long time since I've heard of a thermostat going faulty in a modern engine - not beyond the realms of possibility though.

Coincidentalloy though I was reading an article last night (admittedly about Honda engines) which stated that a clogged EGR flter can cause serious overheating in diesels with all the symptoms that Charlie related: lots of smoke from filler cap, smell of burnt oil, etc. but of interest, no EMS codes usually appear.

Perhaps not particularly helpful but given Toyota's reputation for robust engines, maybe this was just an EGR fluke??

[Mistermena]

EGR valves can cause lots of problem with oil burners. But afaik, Charlie would have had a new EGR valve fitted (Along with a new dpf and 5th injector) when the new engine was fitted! so I wouldn't have thought that this could have caused it as the engine had less than 2000miles on the clock and not had chance to carbon/block up, especially with V-Power. I'm starting to think that when everything was bolted back together they missed something which may have caused a blockage in the exhaust system causing back pressue in the crank case!... But there again.. Its a positive one so they say!

But I'm surmising here and we dont know what really did happen untill a full report is given to Charlie. I think that Kev has the right idea and Mr T should buy back the car! But I wouldn't have thought that Toyota UK would do that in a month of Sundays! I hope they do so Charlie can draw a line under this and move on...

[dervdave]

Bugger number 3...

***** I`ve just read this, its unbelievable ! :o

[jedi134]

They should do, if their dealerships can't bolt an engine back together properly for the 2nd time :D

I doubt you will ever know the truth about this engine, they will tell you anything........

[CharlieFarlie]

First things first..

Got the car back today.. Several sensors have been changed along with the thermostat.. The latter being changed simply as a precaution.. I believe the changing of the stat was a clutching at straws measure..

No faults were recorded.. Dealer carefully explained that the on board computer has two elements one being a 3 bit ?? ( It was confusing) That records the entire cars history. And one being a 1 bit that records something else.. Sorry I was trying to understand...

Neither of these elements had any faults recorded.

Coolant was also drained and changed and so was the Oil and filter..

Car has head every test possible including as mentioned a compression test. Has also been extensively road tested with the Dealers laptop thingy doobry whatyercallit connected to the cars computer... Again everything is in order..

I had a lengthy conversation with the Service Manager who really is a spot on and very knowledgeable Guy indeed ...

During this conversation I made it absolutely clear in very polite terms that I simply do not buy their explanation one tiny bit...

I do not subscribe to Jedis "Dealer will tell You anything" Sorry that's crap !! The Dealer is a franchise and can and will simply bill Toyota for everything they do so why would they not do anything required ??

There was IMHO no real need to change the oil and filter or the coolant but they did and that indicates to Me that they are trying !!

I remain just as confused and fed up as I did when I was stuck in the layby ..

[CharlieFarlie]

First things first..

Got the car back today.. Several sensors have been changed along with the thermostat.. The latter being changed simply as a precaution.. I believe the changing of the stat was a clutching at straws measure..

No faults were recorded.. Dealer carefully explained that the on board computer has two elements one being a 3 bit ?? ( It was confusing) That records the entire cars history. And one being a 1 bit that records something else.. Sorry I was trying to understand...

Neither of these elements had any faults recorded.

Coolant was also drained and changed and so was the Oil and filter..

Car has head every test possible including as mentioned a compression test. Has also been extensively road tested with the Dealers laptop thingy doobry whatyercallit connected to the cars computer... Again everything is in order..

I had a lengthy conversation with the Service Manager who really is a spot on and very knowledgeable Guy indeed ...

During this conversation I made it absolutely clear in very polite terms that I simply do not buy their explanation one tiny bit...

I do not subscribe to Jedis "Dealer will tell You anything" Sorry that's crap !! The Dealer is a franchise and can and will simply bill Toyota for everything they do so why would they not do anything required ??

There was IMHO no real need to change the oil and filter or the coolant but they did and that indicates to Me that they are trying !!

I remain just as confused and fed up as I did when I was stuck in the layby ..

EGR valves can cause lots of problem with oil burners. But afaik, Charlie would have had a new EGR valve fitted (Along with a new dpf and 5th injector) when the new engine was fitted! so I wouldn't have thought that this could have caused it as the engine had less than 2000miles on the clock and not had chance to carbon/block up, especially with V-Power. I'm starting to think that when everything was bolted back together they missed something which may have caused a blockage in the exhaust system causing back pressue in the crank case!... But there again.. Its a positive one so they say!

But I'm surmising here and we dont know what really did happen untill a full report is given to Charlie. I think that Kev has the right idea and Mr T should buy back the car! But I wouldn't have thought that Toyota UK would do that in a month of Sundays! I hope they do so Charlie can draw a line under this and move on...

EGR valves can cause lots of problem with oil burners. But afaik, Charlie would have had a new EGR valve fitted (Along with a new dpf and 5th injector) when the new engine was fitted! so I wouldn't have thought that this could have caused it as the engine had less than 2000miles on the clock and not had chance to carbon/block up, especially with V-Power. I'm starting to think that when everything was bolted back together they missed something which may have caused a blockage in the exhaust system causing back pressue in the crank case!... But there again.. Its a positive one so they say!

But I'm surmising here and we dont know what really did happen untill a full report is given to Charlie. I think that Kev has the right idea and Mr T should buy back the car! But I wouldn't have thought that Toyota UK would do that in a month of Sundays! I hope they do so Charlie can draw a line under this and move on...

EGR valves can cause lots of problem with oil burners. But afaik, Charlie would have had a new EGR valve fitted (Along with a new dpf and 5th injector) when the new engine was fitted! so I wouldn't have thought that this could have caused it as the engine had less than 2000miles on the clock and not had chance to carbon/block up, especially with V-Power. I'm starting to think that when everything was bolted back together they missed something which may have caused a blockage in the exhaust system causing back pressue in the crank case!... But there again.. Its a positive one so they say!

But I'm surmising here and we dont know what really did happen untill a full report is given to Charlie. I think that Kev has the right idea and Mr T should buy back the car! But I wouldn't have thought that Toyota UK would do that in a month of Sundays! I hope they do so Charlie can draw a line under this and move on...

EGR valves can cause lots of problem with oil burners. But afaik, Charlie would have had a new EGR valve fitted (Along with a new dpf and 5th injector) when the new engine was fitted! so I wouldn't have thought that this could have caused it as the engine had less than 2000miles on the clock and not had chance to carbon/block up, especially with V-Power. I'm starting to think that when everything was bolted back together they missed something which may have caused a blockage in the exhaust system causing back pressue in the crank case!... But there again.. Its a positive one so they say!

But I'm surmising here and we dont know what really did happen untill a full report is given to Charlie. I think that Kev has the right idea and Mr T should buy back the car! But I wouldn't have thought that Toyota UK would do that in a month of Sundays! I hope they do so Charlie can draw a line under this and move on...

Tim.. Toyota or one of their Dealers did not sell Me the car so cannot buy it back... The dealer will happily buy the car off Me either for cash or take it in PX... The price of course would be no different to a normal "For blood" or trade in figure..

There is no possibility of the EGR being blocked or the DPNR as both were replaced along with the last engine 1700 miles ago and NO oil had been consumed...

[Mistermena]

I didn't think for a min that Toyota UK would entertain buying the car back off you as a good will guesture mate. It does look like the dealer is trying there best if they've also changed the lubs and coolant. I'm still as confused as you are Charlie with this situation! and to there explenation, but a good drive in it should show any problems if there should be! Which I really dont think there will be any after the work and diagnostics that they've performed

[cabcurtains]

Sounds like the only order of business is driving the car and seeing what happens, again.

Hopefully its finally fixed.

[CharlieFarlie]

One thing for sure charlie is 7 new sensors will not cure that problem in my book, If the sensors didnt pick it up the first time they wont the second. That only tells me its one of two things. Anchorman said thats the second engine with the same symptoms? is this true, the simplist explanation would be pcv valve blocked causing pressure in sump, not doing any mechanical harm normally but would force oil out through sump seals etc over time, or which ever seal was weakest. Pcv valve would do all this and possibly not trigger any sensors. The second as i mentioned earlier was rings but this is hard to believe in a brand new engine with so little miles. I dont really go with the overheating one, doesnt sound logical in my book with so many sensors nowadays linked to the cooling system and no codes stored. I guess i should have asked you first charlie was there any pressure behind the oil cap when you took it off before i started rambling about pcv valves lol

So if a sensor that is faulty and then changed it will not register a fault ??? MMmmmm Strange .............

[Big Kev]

Charlie,

That engine now needs to do some serious hard work on both motorway and town driving at sustained and varying speeds to show up any futher effups (without good lady in it of course.)

Many weeks ago I thought you were giving up too easily, and I quote verbatim...." I have totally lost faith in this car..." How you are feeling about it now I could not hazard a guess, but it needs a right good sensible thrash about prior to trying to get it back to Fifeshire.

Bon Chance,

Big Kev

[Davrav]

Charlie,

That engine now needs to do some serious hard work on both motorway and town driving at sustained and varying speeds to show up any futher effups (without good lady in it of course.)

Many weeks ago I thought you were giving up too easily, and I quote verbatim...." I have totally lost faith in this car..." How you are feeling about it now I could not hazard a guess, but it needs a right good sensible thrash about prior to trying to get it back to Fifeshire.

Bon Chance,

Big Kev

Big Kev - mindreader

[CharlieFarlie]

Charlie,

That engine now needs to do some serious hard work on both motorway and town driving at sustained and varying speeds to show up any futher effups (without good lady in it of course.)

Many weeks ago I thought you were giving up too easily, and I quote verbatim...." I have totally lost faith in this car..." How you are feeling about it now I could not hazard a guess, but it needs a right good sensible thrash about prior to trying to get it back to Fifeshire.

Bon Chance,

Big Kev

Kev.. I could voice how I feel about the car but its all been said before... I will be doing 80 to 90 miles each day now up until I drive back to Scotlandshire in ten days time..

To be honest what is happening around Me at this time means the problems with the car pale into insignificance in the big scheme...

[Grenadekidffere]

One thing for sure charlie is 7 new sensors will not cure that problem in my book, If the sensors didnt pick it up the first time they wont the second. That only tells me its one of two things. Anchorman said thats the second engine with the same symptoms? is this true, the simplist explanation would be pcv valve blocked causing pressure in sump, not doing any mechanical harm normally but would force oil out through sump seals etc over time, or which ever seal was weakest. Pcv valve would do all this and possibly not trigger any sensors. The second as i mentioned earlier was rings but this is hard to believe in a brand new engine with so little miles. I dont really go with the overheating one, doesnt sound logical in my book with so many sensors nowadays linked to the cooling system and no codes stored. I guess i should have asked you first charlie was there any pressure behind the oil cap when you took it off before i started rambling about pcv valves lol

So if a sensor that is faulty and then changed it will not register a fault ??? MMmmmm Strange .............

In my experience charlie a faulty sensor would have registered ghost faults before now rather than not anything at all at the time of the problem (although at times i have been proved wrong). Look dont get me wrong m8 im not picking holes in your dealer, by all accounts he has done everthing i could think of and more to rectify any possible future problems and they are far more familiar with your vehicle than i will ever be. Im just pointing out that changing these sensors is a precautionary move as i suspect (maybe wrongly) the dealer didnt find any of the sensors faulty. I really hope it was a blip on the radar and the vehicle will run sweetly from now on. God knows after 2 engines you need a bit of motoring bliss

[jedi134]

Blitzing 7 sensors for an unknown reason sounds, like they hav'nt got a clue what happened, and and just changing bulk parts and hoping for the best.........

Praying it don't come back :D

I doubt your dealership will go back to Toyota GB after fitting 2 new engines, as TGB will just laugh at them

Hope it all works out for you though Charlie