Disappointing Fuel Consumption

[Starlight Taxis]

Dear fellow TOC members

I've just recently bought my first ever Toyota so have decided to join up here so that I can benefit from the wealth of knowledge that I'm sure will be available to me, and hopefully in time I'll be able to start giving advice back to others.

I bought a 2008 57reg Avensis 2.2 D-4D T180 estate on Saturday and am very pleased with it, other than the fact that the fuel consumption is VERY disappointing to say the least! According to the data I've seen I should be expecting to average 53.3mpg on the motorway, 37.2mpg round town and 45.6mpg combined. I have to say I'm struggling to get 45mpg on the motorway, and that's doing 55mph in 6th gear!!! Doing 70mph returns around 40mpg or less. Combined average is probably high 30's.

I mean, I was getting better fuel economy out of my Saab 9-5 3.0 V6 TiD!!!

Also it doesn't feel as fast as my Saab did and according to the statistics 0-62mph for my Avensis is 8.6 seconds whereas the Saab is only 9.3 seconds, top speed for my Avensis is 137mph whereas the Saab is only 131mph and power is 177PS for my Avensis whereas the Saab is 1 less at 176PS.

I mean don't get me wrong, the Avensis still feels quick, just nowhere near as quick as I was expecting it to feel in comparison to the Saab. Feels more similar to the 130PS 2.0TDCi Mondeo I had... but at least the Mondeo easily returned 50mpg, even combined! Maybe this is just more refined that the Saab and because of the smoother ride I'm not feeling that it's as quick as the Saab was but maybe it actually is, maybe even quicker but I'm just not feeling it (kinda like the difference between a go-kart and a Porsche Cayenne, obviously the Caynne will be quicker but the go-kart will almost certainly FEEL quicker). BUT the Avensis also seems to have a very narrow power band, whereas the Saab just kept pulling like a train all the way from 1,500rpm up to the red line and beyond. The Avensis only seems to have power at around 2,000rpm.

Something has to be wrong with it! Can anyone please kindly give some suggestions as to what may be causing this poor fuel consumption and seemingly poor performance as I seem to be getting around 35mpg combined and that's driving it VERY carefully and conservatively!

Kind regards

Mike

[dervdave]

I seem to be getting around 35mpg combined and that's driving it VERY carefully and conservatively!

Sorry to say but from what I`ve read on the forum that sounds about right Mike.

[Starlight Taxis]

Bugger! But I used to be able to get a better average mpg than the official statistics for the Mondeo and Saab, but with this Avensis I'm not even close to the official figures no matter how carefully I try to drive it. Why publish statistics that are unachievable???

[Starlight Taxis]

Does anyone know how many respiration hinderances there are on these cars that you can remove/block off? Not really sure if that's a technical term or not, but by this I mean catalytic converters (obviously it will have one), particulate filters, EGR valves etc. I've also got a Peugeot 807 2.2HDi 136PS, we de-catted it, removed the particulate filter and blocked the EGR valve off and it's now running much more efficiently and performance has improved (although I dare say it's not doing the envoronment much good... meh!).

[dervdave]

Bugger! But I used to be able to get a better average mpg than the official statistics for the Mondeo and Saab, but with this Avensis I'm not even close to the official figures no matter how carefully I try to drive it. Why publish statistics that are unachievable???

Mike you know about the other things to look out for with the 2.2d ?

[Mistermena]

What fuel are you using in it? Hopefully not Super market !Removed!? Try running it on either Shell V-Power derv or fuel saver with some 2T (Mineral oil) in the fuel. Using a K&N air filter will help along with a piggy-back tuning box from either Kingo (Main dealer on here) or a Tunit box like I have on mine. I gained an extra 12 mpg @ 70mph in 6th gear when cruise was on. And 4-5mpg gain round the houses! but my mpg has dropped could a little due to the cold weather that we're having atm.

If not using a "Super fuel" or T2 (Not all have had good results with 2T) in the fuel then some of us use BG244 (Every 10k) to help maintain the fuel system. have you tried cleaning out the EGR valve with carb cleaner or the MAF with electrical contact cleaner spray?. Tyre pressures can cause lower mpg! so I have mine set at 36psi all round.

[Mistermena]

What fuel are you using in it? Hopefully not Super market !Removed!? Try running it on either Shell V-Power derv or fuel saver with some 2T (Mineral oil) in the fuel. Using a K&N air filter will help along with a piggy-back tuning box from either Kingo (Main dealer on here) or a Tunit box like I have on mine. I gained an extra 12 mpg @ 70mph in 6th gear when cruise was on. And 4-5mpg gain round the houses! but my mpg has dropped a little due to the cold weather that we're having atm.

If not using a "Super fuel" or T2 (Not all have had good results with 2T) in the fuel then some of us use BG244 (Every 10k) to help maintain the fuel system. have you tried cleaning out the EGR valve with carb cleaner or the MAF with electrical contact cleaner spray?. Tyre pressures can cause lower mpg! so I have mine set at 36psi all round.

Does anyone know how many respiration hinderances there are on these cars that you can remove/block off? Not really sure if that's a technical term or not, but by this I mean catalytic converters (obviously it will have one), particulate filters, EGR valves etc. I've also got a Peugeot 807 2.2HDi 136PS, we de-catted it, removed the particulate filter and blocked the EGR valve off and it's now running much more efficiently and performance has improved (although I dare say it's not doing the envoronment much good... meh!).

There is no way that the Denso ECU can be fooled if you wanna D-CAT it or blank off the EGR valve! Thats the main reason why you cant "Chip" the engines because of the very well encripted ECU. A Tuning box has to be used...

My mate Dave is talking about the HG and EGR valve issues which can lead to high oil use and a bu@@erd engine. These are some of the issues that are covered under the extended good will warranty that Toyota have put in place for 7 years or 112k miles... Take a search on here and posts about these and other issues that some cars can suffer from...

[cabcurtains]

No offence Mike but you might have wanted to check on here before buying. Everything you mention has been talked about for years on standard Auris/RAV4/Avensis/Verso 180's.

[Starlight Taxis]

Thanks for your comments guys!

Mistermena - It does get some supermarket fuel, but it also gets its fair share of 'branded' fuel, so to speak. Although I never use the premium stuff, I just get whatever I can find reasonably cheap wherever I may be when I need to fill up as it's a taxi and I'm sceptical as to whether or not the extra expense of using the premium fuel would actually cover the cost in terms of reduced fuel consumption and I'm not sure I can be bothered to start messing around putting mineral oil in the tank every time I fill up (which is usually about 50 litres a day or so).

I've only had it since Saturday so obviously I haven't had time to do anything like clean the EGR or MAF. But it was on 57k miles when I bought it and it's an ex-fleet car so almost certainly has never had anything like that done to it yet. Are there any guides on how to do this? I usually stick a bottle of D-Tox (from Halfords, shamefully) in after every service on my cars, so in this case it would be every 10k miles, is that similar to this BG244 you speak of? I think D-Tox is very similar to Redex Advanced.

Not sure I like the idea of a biggy-back tuning box. I've heard bad things about them and thought the best way was to get a proper ECU re-map. But you're saying these can't be ECU re-mapped??? That's one of the first things I was going to do to it! Well, actually one of the last things following air filter, de-cat, EGR block, particulate filter removed (if it has one???). And you're saying you can't even de-cat it without the ECU knowing about it??? Didn't think there were any sensors in there! My 807 would have had a fit if we hadn't re-mapped the ECU after removing the particulate filter but didn't think removing the cat would cause a problem?

[cabcurtains]

Mr M is correct on both no remap and no DPF removal options, clean the EGR stick a tuning box on, all the other scenarios have tried and failed!

God i'm sounding negative today!

The whole D-Cat 5th Injector system is a feat of modern japanese madness.

[Mistermena]

Thanks for your comments guys!

Mistermena - It does get some supermarket fuel, but it also gets its fair share of 'branded' fuel, so to speak. Although I never use the premium stuff, I just get whatever I can find reasonably cheap wherever I may be when I need to fill up as it's a taxi and I'm sceptical as to whether or not the extra expense of using the premium fuel would actually cover the cost in terms of reduced fuel consumption and I'm not sure I can be bothered to start messing around putting mineral oil in the tank every time I fill up (which is usually about 50 litres a day or so).

I've only had it since Saturday so obviously I haven't had time to do anything like clean the EGR or MAF. But it was on 57k miles when I bought it and it's an ex-fleet car so almost certainly has never had anything like that done to it yet. Are there any guides on how to do this? I usually stick a bottle of D-Tox (from Halfords, shamefully) in after every service on my cars, so in this case it would be every 10k miles, is that similar to this BG244 you speak of? I think D-Tox is very similar to Redex Advanced.

Not sure I like the idea of a biggy-back tuning box. I've heard bad things about them and thought the best way was to get a proper ECU re-map. But you're saying these can't be ECU re-mapped??? That's one of the first things I was going to do to it! Well, actually one of the last things following air filter, de-cat, EGR block, particulate filter removed (if it has one???). And you're saying you can't even de-cat it without the ECU knowing about it??? Didn't think there were any sensors in there! My 807 would have had a fit if we hadn't re-mapped the ECU after removing the particulate filter but didn't think removing the cat would cause a problem?

You will find that there is a difference when you use a fuel like V-Power GTL (Gas to Liquid, semi synth) fuels over "Normal" heavy oils as it has twice the additive package of normal derv! With the milage that you'll be doing it will actually save you money in the long run! espacially if you join (Free) the V-Power club as you'll get money back vouchers to use against fuel. If you look at posta by member "Charlie Farley" you'll see what a big difference it made to his mpg and he was sceptic (As I was at 1st) about theres kinds of "super fuels" but now swears by the stuff as I do.

I understand that you might not wanna bother about putting something in with the fuel every time you fill up! so the best one on the market (From powerenhancers, they have an offer on so if you want a discount code, let me know) to date is BG244 (And I've tried them all) and this a once a year or 10k fix! give it a Google. There are lots of guides on here to do the EGR valve and its very easy to do.

There is NO way that you can fool this ECU mate! Not a chance to date... The piggy back box I use (On both my cars) have been without fault. They are not cheap at £485 a pop! But one when on eBay the other month back for £101 which was a bargin.

There have been problems with the specs of engine oil... So I use Mobil 1 ESP 5w-30 (C2) as this meets the standards ( Or this http://www.ebay.co.u...=item256b002b20 I've not used this one but meets standards) for the T-180 (2AD) engine. If you are thinking of changing the gearbox oil it MUST be a straight 75w grade for these triple syncro units. Silkolen PRO SRG ester oil meets this to a "T"... I had problems (When cold) selecting 1st gear and always crunched when getting 2nd until the box warmed up! using SRG solved this for me.

Tbh mate... If I was going to do Taxi work, I would not have touched the T-180 and gone for the 2.0L as you'll gain more mpg and have less to worry about like D-Cats and 5th injector. That one of the reasons why the mpg is down as there is an injector that is used in the DPNR system to lower the emissions... Which is inturn goona cost you fuel on re-gens! But that should be less with you as the system will be hot all the time. I hope you do a few motorway runs to help reduce the passive re-gens! Or take it for an "Italian" tune up... But I guess thats a normal drive in your kinda work! as it is in mine :P

[Heidfirst]

I have to say I'm struggling to get 45mpg on the motorway, and that's doing 55mph in 6th gear!!!

that's too low rpm for the gear, you would be better in 5th - you want to keep it ~2000 plus or minus~200.

In mixed motoring I think that you are more likely to average ~ 40 mpg in a T180.

Also it doesn't feel as fast as my Saab did and according to the statistics 0-62mph for my Avensis is 8.6 seconds whereas the Saab is only 9.3 seconds, top speed for my Avensis is 137mph whereas the Saab is only 131mph and power is 177PS for my Avensis whereas the Saab is 1 less at 176PS.

torque v power?

also these are quite slow off the line ( i suspect that the ECU map & TRC conspire here) but in gear acceleration is good if you keep it in the right rpm zone.

I echo what the others have said - a can of BG244 to give it a clean & at least non-supermarket (I like Shell) fuel if not premium diesel.

If your insurance& budget will allow fit a decent piggyback box to the ECU.

Personally I don't think that it's even worth fitting a K&N filter but others differ.

& keep an eye on your coolant level (see threads on here for head gasket issues with these engines).

[Starlight Taxis]

Right, before I get started I would like to thank you all again for all of your helpful comments. Please bear with me if my questions seem a bit thick! And I apologise for the extra long post below:

Mike you know about the other things to look out for with the 2.2d ?

No I'm not aware of anything else, would you kindly enlighten me?

Using a K&N air filter will help along with a piggy-back tuning box from either Kingo (Main dealer on here) or a Tunit box like I have on mine.

have you tried cleaning out the EGR valve with carb cleaner or the MAF with electrical contact cleaner spray?.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't K&N filters require a lot of maintenance (i.e. cleaning and re-oiling every so often)? Especially as I do up to 2,300 miles a week, I'd either be forever cleaning and re-oiling the filter or just letting it go unattended and therefore reducing performance compared to a stock filter???

How would I go about cleaning the MAF with the contact cleaner? Use a toothbrush? Or is that not recommended?

There is no way that the Denso ECU can be fooled if you wanna D-CAT it or blank off the EGR valve! Thats the main reason why you cant "Chip" the engines because of the very well encripted ECU. A Tuning box has to be used...

The guy who chipped my Peugeot 807 after removing the cat and particulate filter is fairly confident he can get this car chipped, but it would mean sending the ECU away to his head office. Is anyone in a position to say for sure whether this is a possibility or not?

The whole D-Cat 5th Injector system is a feat of modern japanese madness.

Sorry, please run that by me again... This car has 5 injectors but only 4 cylinders??? How the hell does that work?

You will find that there is a difference when you use a fuel like V-Power GTL (Gas to Liquid, semi synth) fuels over "Normal" heavy oils as it has twice the additive package of normal derv! With the milage that you'll be doing it will actually save you money in the long run! espacially if you join (Free) the V-Power club as you'll get money back vouchers to use against fuel. If you look at posta by member "Charlie Farley" you'll see what a big difference it made to his mpg and he was sceptic (As I was at 1st) about theres kinds of "super fuels" but now swears by the stuff as I do.

I understand that you might not wanna bother about putting something in with the fuel every time you fill up! so the best one on the market (From powerenhancers, they have an offer on so if you want a discount code, let me know) to date is BG244 (And I've tried them all) and this a once a year or 10k fix! give it a Google. There are lots of guides on here to do the EGR valve and its very easy to do.

There is NO way that you can fool this ECU mate! Not a chance to date... The piggy back box I use (On both my cars) have been without fault. They are not cheap at £485 a pop! But one when on Ebay the other month back for £101 which was a bargin.

There have been problems with the specs of engine oil... So I use Mobil 1 ESP 5w-30 (C2) as this meets the standards ( Or this http://www.ebay.co.u...=item256b002b20 I've not used this one but meets standards) for the T-180 (2AD) engine. If you are thinking of changing the gearbox oil it MUST be a straight 75w grade for these triple syncro units. Silkolen PRO SRG ester oil meets this to a "T"... I had problems (When cold) selecting 1st gear and always crunched when getting 2nd until the box warmed up! using SRG solved this for me.

Tbh mate... If I was going to do Taxi work, I would not have touched the T-180 and gone for the 2.0L as you'll gain more mpg and have less to worry about like D-Cats and 5th injector. That one of the reasons why the mpg is down as there is an injector that is used in the DPNR system to lower the emissions... Which is inturn goona cost you fuel on re-gens! But that should be less with you as the system will be hot all the time. I hope you do a few motorway runs to help reduce the passive re-gens! Or take it for an "Italian" tune up... But I guess thats a normal drive in your kinda work! as it is in mine

I'm currently in the process of doing my own tests on the fuel consumption differences between supermarket fuel and premium fuel at 65mph in 6th Gear with tyres inflated to 36psi all-round (the book recommends 35psi). So far I've only managed to record Tesco diesel over 156.7 miles and it comes out at 50.75mpg which is actually a lot better than I was expecting. I've now got a full tank of V-Power and will report my findings in due course (although I can say it's already noticably more responsive than before, but still doesn't feel as quick as the Saab did and that was being run on Tesco fuel!).

To be honest, I know £485 seems like a lot of money but it's literally just a drop in the ocean when you put it up against my annual maintenance bill for my taxi and my wife's taxi, so almost certainly would be well worth the investment! But, not that I disbelieve what I've been told on here, I will explore the avenue of having it re-mapped as I said my guy is confident it can be done (and IF it can, maybe it can be done to accomodate not having a cat etc.).

Re. oil... so you're saying a bog-standard 5w-30 fully synth from my local motor factors will not suffice? If that is the case it's slightly worrying as the trader I bought it from done an oil change before I picked it up and almost certainly would have just chucked the cheapest stuff possible in there. What symptoms occur from inadequate oil specification? And is there likely to be any long-term engine damage as a result of inadequate oil spec?

I take what you're saying about steering clear of the T180 for taxi work, but I have to say it's no coincidence that I just happened to purchase a quick one! I am a slave to speed, if I hadn't bought one of these it probably would have been a 170PS Passat or something. If I wanted to go purely down the 'practicality route' I'd have got something like a base model Mondeo, Vectra or Octavia. But I spend a lot of time in my car and it's nice to have something for work that you really enjoy driving (as I don't have a weekend car, so this kinda fills both rolls and is probably cheaper than having 2 cars). I'd say at least 75% of the mileage it'll do will be motorway mileage anyway as we mainly do airports, long-distance contract school runs etc. and not really so much local stuff. What's your line of work, by the way?

torque v power? also these are quite slow off the line ( i suspect that the ECU map & TRC conspire here) but in gear acceleration is good if you keep it in the right rpm zone. I echo what the others have said - a can of BG244 to give it a clean & at least non-supermarket (I like Shell) fuel if not premium diesel. If your insurance& budget will allow fit a decent piggyback box to the ECU. Personally I don't think that it's even worth fitting a K&N filter but others differ. & keep an eye on your coolant level (see threads on here for head gasket issues with these engines).

Not sure what the torque for the Saab was, but even if it is higher than the T180 it still doesn't explain why the T180 feels slower than the Saab as the 0-62mph stats say different.

[Gabaunion]

People moan about the fuel from supermarkets but the idea that it is not as good is just a 'conspiracy theory'. Its exactly the same ... just oil that burns.

As for the EGR ... yes take the wretched thing out.

These cars hate cold. They can stay cold for up to an hour if you start out straight into traffic. Turn off your heater for the first 10 minutes, and don't even think of using the engine to demist the screen... Does that EVER work with diesel cars? Use a coke bottle of warm water for the ice, and it demists the inside too.

If you are testing it's 0-60, you will have just burned half a liter of fuel, do it often and you will effect its MPG!

I get over 60mpg out of my old 54 plate, I test it constantly, almost always fill it from a can 5 or 10 liters at a time. Always from empty past 0 miles range.

My wife (in the same car) gets around 40 doing the exact same rural commute. .... The reason is obvious, I just look at the colour of the front wheels after she has been driving it, there is my fuel.

If you buy a second hand car, you may well have a fault. Check the oil, it should SLOWLY be going down, not static, and never up. Feel the injector pipes, do they all click the same? It's an expensive service but if your injectors are working well you will save a lot of gas.

[Heidfirst]

Mike you know about the other things to look out for with the 2.2d ?

No I'm not aware of anything else, would you kindly enlighten me?

I suspect that he means the potential head gasket issue - a quick search here will get you up to speed on it & Toyota's response.

The guy who chipped my Peugeot 807 after removing the cat and particulate filter is fairly confident he can get this car chipped, but it would mean sending the ECU away to his head office. Is anyone in a position to say for sure whether this is a possibility or not?

if they can I believe that'll be a first ...

The whole D-Cat 5th Injector system is a feat of modern japanese madness.

Sorry, please run that by me again... This car has 5 injectors but only 4 cylinders??? How the hell does that work?

the 5th injector is for the DPF system - it uses diesel to burn off the captured soot.

Re. oil... so you're saying a bog-standard 5w-30 fully synth from my local motor factors will not suffice? If that is the case it's slightly worrying as the trader I bought it from done an oil change before I picked it up and almost certainly would have just chucked the cheapest stuff possible in there. What symptoms occur from inadequate oil specification? And is there likely to be any long-term engine damage as a result of inadequate oil spec?

it has to meet at least C2 to protect the DPF

torque v power? also these are quite slow off the line ( i suspect that the ECU map & TRC conspire here) but in gear acceleration is good if you keep it in the right rpm zone. I echo what the others have said - a can of BG244 to give it a clean & at least non-supermarket (I like Shell) fuel if not premium diesel. If your insurance& budget will allow fit a decent piggyback box to the ECU. Personally I don't think that it's even worth fitting a K&N filter but others differ. & keep an eye on your coolant level (see threads on here for head gasket issues with these engines).

Not sure what the torque for the Saab was, but even if it is higher than the T180 it still doesn't explain why the T180 feels slower than the Saab as the 0-62mph stats say different.

actually it might - torque gives you a more consistent, sustained acceleration whereas power tends to be more peaky (but feels more urgent)

was your Saab the 3.0 diesel or petrol?

[Gabaunion]

People moan about the fuel from supermarkets but the idea that it is not as good is just a 'conspiracy theory'. Its exactly the same ... just oil that burns.

As for the EGR ... yes take the wretched thing out.

These cars hate cold. They can stay cold for up to an hour if you start out straight into traffic. Turn off your heater for the first 10 minutes, and don't even think of using the engine to demist the screen... Does that EVER work with diesel cars? Use a coke bottle of warm water for the ice, and it demists the inside too.

If you are testing it's 0-60, you will have just burned half a liter of fuel, do it often and you will effect its MPG!

I get over 60mpg out of my old 54 plate, I test it constantly, almost always fill it from a can 5 or 10 liters at a time. Always from empty past 0 miles range.

My wife (in the same car) gets around 40 doing the exact same rural commute. .... The reason is obvious, I just look at the colour of the front wheels after she has been driving it, there is my fuel.

If you buy a second hand car, you may well have a fault. Check the oil, it should SLOWLY be going down, not static, and never up. Feel the injector pipes, do they all click the same? It's an expensive service but if your injectors are working well you will save a lot of gas.

[Jas16]

Hi, just wanted to throw my opinions in the mix as well.

The good thing in your case with regards to mpg is the fact that you are not doing too many cold starts, which should help keep the mpg up.

I have the 2.0d4d so not ideal to compare mpg values, but in the case of fuel, I have always used supermarket oil and my average has been around 56mpg over 18k miles and 17 months, albeit most of it was 70mph motorway cruise.

With regards to the engine oil, I buy it from my local Toyota Pentagon dealer, and he charges me the same rate as it would be in say, Halfords for their brand of oil. Decent parts service. With the cheap semi-synthetic oils, I was always under the impression that the amount of mineral oil to synthetic ratio was more biased towards the cheap mineral oil

Going back to the original Q, driving at 55mph in 6th isnt good over a long distance, purely due to the low engine revs at that speed, the reason I drive at 70mph is a compromise. Also a good'ol blast to clear the carbon out of the system might be good once in a while, don't worry too much about the smoke. I usually do a 3rd blast on the mway all the way through the rev range with foot down, a few times.

Hope that is of some help

Enjoy the car :)

[Starlight Taxis]

Thanks for your reply Scott

So where are the DPF and 5th injector actually located?

How would I find out if a particular oil meets C2 specs? Presumably if it does it'll say so on the packaging, and if it does not it'll omit to mention anything about it???

It was 3.0 diesel

[Mistermena]

Right, before I get started I would like to thank you all again for all of your helpful comments. Please bear with me if my questions seem a bit thick! And I apologise for the extra long post below:

Mike you know about the other things to look out for with the 2.2d ?

No I'm not aware of anything else, would you kindly enlighten me?

Using a K&N air filter will help along with a piggy-back tuning box from either Kingo (Main dealer on here) or a Tunit box like I have on mine.

have you tried cleaning out the EGR valve with carb cleaner or the MAF with electrical contact cleaner spray?.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't K&N filters require a lot of maintenance (i.e. cleaning and re-oiling every so often)? Especially as I do up to 2,300 miles a week, I'd either be forever cleaning and re-oiling the filter or just letting it go unattended and therefore reducing performance compared to a stock filter???

How would I go about cleaning the MAF with the contact cleaner? Use a toothbrush? Or is that not recommended?

There is no way that the Denso ECU can be fooled if you wanna D-CAT it or blank off the EGR valve! Thats the main reason why you cant "Chip" the engines because of the very well encripted ECU. A Tuning box has to be used...

The guy who chipped my Peugeot 807 after removing the cat and particulate filter is fairly confident he can get this car chipped, but it would mean sending the ECU away to his head office. Is anyone in a position to say for sure whether this is a possibility or not?

The whole D-Cat 5th Injector system is a feat of modern japanese madness.

Sorry, please run that by me again... This car has 5 injectors but only 4 cylinders??? How the hell does that work?

You will find that there is a difference when you use a fuel like V-Power GTL (Gas to Liquid, semi synth) fuels over "Normal" heavy oils as it has twice the additive package of normal derv! With the milage that you'll be doing it will actually save you money in the long run! espacially if you join (Free) the V-Power club as you'll get money back vouchers to use against fuel. If you look at posta by member "Charlie Farley" you'll see what a big difference it made to his mpg and he was sceptic (As I was at 1st) about theres kinds of "super fuels" but now swears by the stuff as I do.

I understand that you might not wanna bother about putting something in with the fuel every time you fill up! so the best one on the market (From powerenhancers, they have an offer on so if you want a discount code, let me know) to date is BG244 (And I've tried them all) and this a once a year or 10k fix! give it a Google. There are lots of guides on here to do the EGR valve and its very easy to do.

There is NO way that you can fool this ECU mate! Not a chance to date... The piggy back box I use (On both my cars) have been without fault. They are not cheap at £485 a pop! But one when on Ebay the other month back for £101 which was a bargin.

There have been problems with the specs of engine oil... So I use Mobil 1 ESP 5w-30 (C2) as this meets the standards ( Or this http://www.ebay.co.u...=item256b002b20 I've not used this one but meets standards) for the T-180 (2AD) engine. If you are thinking of changing the gearbox oil it MUST be a straight 75w grade for these triple syncro units. Silkolen PRO SRG ester oil meets this to a "T"... I had problems (When cold) selecting 1st gear and always crunched when getting 2nd until the box warmed up! using SRG solved this for me.

Tbh mate... If I was going to do Taxi work, I would not have touched the T-180 and gone for the 2.0L as you'll gain more mpg and have less to worry about like D-Cats and 5th injector. That one of the reasons why the mpg is down as there is an injector that is used in the DPNR system to lower the emissions... Which is inturn goona cost you fuel on re-gens! But that should be less with you as the system will be hot all the time. I hope you do a few motorway runs to help reduce the passive re-gens! Or take it for an "Italian" tune up... But I guess thats a normal drive in your kinda work! as it is in mine

I'm currently in the process of doing my own tests on the fuel consumption differences between supermarket fuel and premium fuel at 65mph in 6th Gear with tyres inflated to 36psi all-round (the book recommends 35psi). So far I've only managed to record Tesco diesel over 156.7 miles and it comes out at 50.75mpg which is actually a lot better than I was expecting. I've now got a full tank of V-Power and will report my findings in due course (although I can say it's already noticably more responsive than before, but still doesn't feel as quick as the Saab did and that was being run on Tesco fuel!).

To be honest, I know £485 seems like a lot of money but it's literally just a drop in the ocean when you put it up against my annual maintenance bill for my taxi and my wife's taxi, so almost certainly would be well worth the investment! But, not that I disbelieve what I've been told on here, I will explore the avenue of having it re-mapped as I said my guy is confident it can be done (and IF it can, maybe it can be done to accomodate not having a cat etc.).

Re. oil... so you're saying a bog-standard 5w-30 fully synth from my local motor factors will not suffice? If that is the case it's slightly worrying as the trader I bought it from done an oil change before I picked it up and almost certainly would have just chucked the cheapest stuff possible in there. What symptoms occur from inadequate oil specification? And is there likely to be any long-term engine damage as a result of inadequate oil spec?

I take what you're saying about steering clear of the T180 for taxi work, but I have to say it's no coincidence that I just happened to purchase a quick one! I am a slave to speed, if I hadn't bought one of these it probably would have been a 170PS Passat or something. If I wanted to go purely down the 'practicality route' I'd have got something like a base model Mondeo, Vectra or Octavia. But I spend a lot of time in my car and it's nice to have something for work that you really enjoy driving (as I don't have a weekend car, so this kinda fills both rolls and is probably cheaper than having 2 cars). I'd say at least 75% of the mileage it'll do will be motorway mileage anyway as we mainly do airports, long-distance contract school runs etc. and not really so much local stuff. What's your line of work, by the way?

torque v power? also these are quite slow off the line ( i suspect that the ECU map & TRC conspire here) but in gear acceleration is good if you keep it in the right rpm zone. I echo what the others have said - a can of BG244 to give it a clean & at least non-supermarket (I like Shell) fuel if not premium diesel. If your insurance& budget will allow fit a decent piggyback box to the ECU. Personally I don't think that it's even worth fitting a K&N filter but others differ. & keep an eye on your coolant level (see threads on here for head gasket issues with these engines).

Not sure what the torque for the Saab was, but even if it is higher than the T180 it still doesn't explain why the T180 feels slower than the Saab as the 0-62mph stats say different.

Just to go through some of your questions. I find the K&N to be a very good add on to my engine, given me around the 1-2mpg extra when used in conjuction with a tuning box (Running about 195bhp) and allowing the engine/turbo to breath better. These air filters last for 1 million miles and I clean mine out every 20k (Last time I did it was almost clean anyway) but can be done at intervals of around the 40k mark. When you consider the initial outlay of £35 it makes it a good buy compaired to a genuine Toyota one that has to replaced time and time again. Cleaning and re-oiling takes no time at all, but I do understand that some might not want to do it. But as a driving instructor I consider this not to be a problem, especially when my learners are over-revving my TDi.

Cleaning the MAF is easy as all you have to do is remove it and spray the CRC spray and leave it to dry! just pop it back on and you're away.

The oil specs can be found at the back of the containers! These cars should have a 5w-30 (C2 spec) to fall in line with the manufactures recommendations for a low ash content oil to help preserve the DPF. The 5th injector is bolted to this and uses some diesel to clear the !Removed! out of it as Scott has already touched upon. You can see the DPF if you open up the bonnet and its at the left hand side down from the variable vain turbo. I doubt that the oil the dealer put in would have do to much damage! but I would be changing it to Mobil 1 ESP (5w-30) as you dont want to have any problems with the D-CAT in the future. This oil is expensive at places like Halfords, so I buy mine off an eBay trader called... Matt Lewis Motor Sports for £62 delivered for 10ltr, or take a look at the link on my previous post with the Q8 oil that seems to meet the standards...

[Starlight Taxis]

With regards to the engine oil, I buy it from my local Toyota Pentagon dealer, and he charges me the same rate as it would be in say, Halfords for their brand of oil. Decent parts service. With the cheap semi-synthetic oils, I was always under the impression that the amount of mineral oil to synthetic ratio was more biased towards the cheap mineral oil

Going back to the original Q, driving at 55mph in 6th isnt good over a long distance, purely due to the low engine revs at that speed, the reason I drive at 70mph is a compromise. Also a good'ol blast to clear the carbon out of the system might be good once in a while, don't worry too much about the smoke. I usually do a 3rd blast on the mway all the way through the rev range with foot down, a few times.

I'm ashamed to admit that I've always bought my oil from Halfords. Only because they have it all out on display and you can examine the different types and make an informed decision on which one is best based on your budget (it's a bit hard to examine different oil types when they're behind the counter or in a store room!). But if I know exactly what I'm after I much prefer to spend my money at my local independant motor factor as the guy really knows his onions and always gives honest and informative advice (EVEN if it means you end up walking out of there spending less than you originally intended to or even spending nothing at all). Plus comparing like-for-like products he ALWAYS comes out MUCH cheaper than Halfords. Can anyone please tell me how I can check if a particular oil type conforms to C2???

By the way, I don't normally drive at 55mph in 6th gear! I was just giving it as an example to descripe how poor the fuel consumption has been. Even as low as 55mph the engine still does not labour (as it's still around 1,600rpm or so) so should in theory give the best fuel consumption as you try to get the revs as low as possible but without making the engine labour to return the best MPG. Usually I cruise at 65mph unless I've got customers onboard, in which case it's bang on 70mph (or if I'm in a particular hurry I'll go as high as 98mph but VERY VERY rarely higher than that as I believe it's a court hearing and a probable ban if found doing 100mph or more). It usually gets an Italian tune-up at least once a day, but other than that I try to drive as economically as possible unless somebody wants a race!

[Starlight Taxis]

Just to go through some of your questions. I find the K&N to be a very good add on to my engine, given me around the 1-2mpg extra when used in conjuction with a tuning box (Running about 195bhp) and allowing the engine/turbo to breath better. These air filters last for 1 million miles and I clean mine out every 20k (Last time I did it was almost clean anyway) but can be done at intervals of around the 40k mark. When you consider the initial outlay of £35 it makes it a good buy compaired to a genuine Toyota one that has to replaced time and time again. Cleaning and re-oiling takes no time at all, but I do understand that some might not want to do it. But as a driving instructor I consider this not to be a problem, especially when my learners are over-revving my TDi.

Cleaning the MAF is easy as all you have to do is remove it and spray the CRC spray and leave it to dry! just pop it back on and you're away.

The oil specs can be found at the back of the containers! These cars should have a 5w-30 (C2 spec) to fall in line with the manufactures recommendations for a low ash content oil to help preserve the DPF. The 5th injector is bolted to this and uses some diesel to clear the !Removed! out of it as Scott has already touched upon. You can see the DPF if you open up the bonnet and its at the left hand side down from the variable vain turbo. I doubt that the oil the dealer put in would have do to much damage! but I would be changing it to Mobil 1 ESP (5w-30) as you dont want to have any problems with the D-CAT in the future. This oil is expensive at places like Halfords, so I buy mine off an Ebay trader called... Matt Lewis Motor Sports for £62 delivered for 10ltr, or take a look at the link on my previous post with the Q8 oil that seems to meet the standards...

Bliney! Don't know why, but I had it in my heat that K&N filters had to be cleaned and re-oiled every 2,000 to 5,000 miles or so! If K&N recommend 40k cleaning intervals I'd probably just put it in on my 10k routine (after every service I chuck in a bottle of D-Tox and spray a can ok 10k Boost aerosol into the air intake, although after reading this thread I'll probably use BG244 instead of D-Tox).

DOES ANYONE ELSE USE 10K BOOST??? I've not seen anyone else mention it here. It's an aerosol that you spray into the air intake after the MAF but before the turbo that is supposed to de-coke the engine.

Just out of curiosity; you say you're running about 195BHP... Is that ACTUALLY 195 brake horse power at the wheels or an estimated 195PS at the flywheel? 195BHP would be pretty impressive!

[Heidfirst]

Can anyone please tell me how I can check if a particular oil type conforms to C2???

it will say on the container or you can check onthe manufacturer's website.

As an example Mistermena favours Mobil 1 & using Halfords (who will usually be dearer but on their offers can be good) Mobil 1 5W30 as you can see under the specifications it says ACEA C2 C3.

& between the sump & the filter you will need ~6.5 litres.

[Mistermena]

Just to go through some of your questions. I find the K&N to be a very good add on to my engine, given me around the 1-2mpg extra when used in conjuction with a tuning box (Running about 195bhp) and allowing the engine/turbo to breath better. These air filters last for 1 million miles and I clean mine out every 20k (Last time I did it was almost clean anyway) but can be done at intervals of around the 40k mark. When you consider the initial outlay of £35 it makes it a good buy compaired to a genuine Toyota one that has to replaced time and time again. Cleaning and re-oiling takes no time at all, but I do understand that some might not want to do it. But as a driving instructor I consider this not to be a problem, especially when my learners are over-revving my TDi.

Cleaning the MAF is easy as all you have to do is remove it and spray the CRC spray and leave it to dry! just pop it back on and you're away.

The oil specs can be found at the back of the containers! These cars should have a 5w-30 (C2 spec) to fall in line with the manufactures recommendations for a low ash content oil to help preserve the DPF. The 5th injector is bolted to this and uses some diesel to clear the !Removed! out of it as Scott has already touched upon. You can see the DPF if you open up the bonnet and its at the left hand side down from the variable vain turbo. I doubt that the oil the dealer put in would have do to much damage! but I would be changing it to Mobil 1 ESP (5w-30) as you dont want to have any problems with the D-CAT in the future. This oil is expensive at places like Halfords, so I buy mine off an Ebay trader called... Matt Lewis Motor Sports for £62 delivered for 10ltr, or take a look at the link on my previous post with the Q8 oil that seems to meet the standards...

Bliney! Don't know why, but I had it in my heat that K&N filters had to be cleaned and re-oiled every 2,000 to 5,000 miles or so! If K&N recommend 40k cleaning intervals I'd probably just put it in on my 10k routine (after every service I chuck in a bottle of D-Tox and spray a can ok 10k Boost aerosol into the air intake, although after reading this thread I'll probably use BG244 instead of D-Tox).

DOES ANYONE ELSE USE 10K BOOST??? I've not seen anyone else mention it here. It's an aerosol that you spray into the air intake after the MAF but before the turbo that is supposed to de-coke the engine.

Just out of curiosity; you say you're running about 195BHP... Is that ACTUALLY 195 brake horse power at the wheels or an estimated 195PS at the flywheel? 195BHP would be pretty impressive!

If I were you I'd stick to BG244 as its great stuff and really does work better than all the other additives I've ever used! Have a look at the powerenhancers web site to see whats in the stuff compaired to the rest of the bunch. My Avensis is a T-180 estate as you can see... So instead of 180bhp it'll be 195bhp at the fly I would have thought as I've never had a dyno test done as I'm not bothered really about the bhp as they are fast enought. I'm more concerened with the extra mpg as I drive some long distances in the love machine

[Starlight Taxis]

Can anyone please tell me how I can check if a particular oil type conforms to C2???

it will say on the container or you can check onthe manufacturer's website.

As an example Mistermena favours Mobil 1 & using Halfords (who will usually be dearer but on their offers can be good) Mobil 1 5W30 as you can see under the specifications it says ACEA C2 C3.

& between the sump & the filter you will need ~6.5 litres.

That's very helpful, thank you. I know it seems like a stupid question but I just wasn't sure if it would actually say "C2" on the container or whether there would be some sort of other rating specified that would conform which I would have to look out for.

If I were you I'd stick to BG244 as its great stuff and really does work better than all the other additives I've ever used! Have a look at the powerenhancers web site to see whats in the stuff compaired to the rest of the bunch. My Avensis is a T-180 estate as you can see... So instead of 180bhp it'll be 195bhp at the fly I would have thought as I've never had a dyno test done as I'm not bothered really about the bhp as they are fast enought. I'm more concerened with the extra mpg as I drive some long distances in the love machine

Not sure if this post was referring to me question about 10k boost. It can be used aswell as BG244, doesn't have to be instead of, as it's not a fuel additive it's an aerosol that you spray into the air intake. You have to rev it between 2,000rpm and 2,500 rpm while you're doing it (so you need a second body or a brick) and you can really see it's working when all the crap comes out the exhaust. When I done it the other month on my Mondeo a neighbour came running out to help as he thought my car was on fire because it filled the whole street full of smoke! LOL, hardly surprising when you consider it'd done 342,000 miles (the equivalent distance of going round the earth's equator 14 times!), although I always de-coked it with 10k boost religiously so there shouldn't have been too much of a carbon build-up. I'm sure if I hadn't done this every 10-12k miles I'd have had massive problems with air restriction and EGR valve etc. by the time it got to 300,000 miles (this did not have the EGR blocked off as doing so caused the engine management limp mode to come on, it had never had the EGR cleaned by hand or replaced in all that time, must say something for 10k boost!!!).

[Starlight Taxis]

My Avensis is a T-180 estate as you can see... So instead of 180bhp it'll be 195bhp at the fly I would have thought as I've never had a dyno test done as I'm not bothered really about the bhp as they are fast enought. I'm more concerened with the extra mpg as I drive some long distances in the love machine

I hate to be pedantic (actually, that's a lie; I LOVE to be pedantic) but unless I'm mistaken I think a stock T180 puts out 177.5 BHP at the flywheel as 180 is the PS rating not the BHP rating... And a dyno test wouldn't give a very accurate idea as to what the flywheel BHP will be anyway because as you know a dyno test is done at the wheels. In the past I've read lots of threads on wheel BHP vs. flywheel BHP and nobody can ever agree a set amount of power loss from the drivetrain (naturally because every car willbe different) but people are quoting anything from 15% to 25% power loss in the transmission. So if you reckon your T180 is producing 195PS at the flywheel you're probably looking at anything from 145BHP to 165BHP at the wheels. Just a though, so to put a downer on it! LOL