Disappointing Fuel Consumption

[Starlight Taxis]

Oh, one other thing I forgot to mention - Just under a week ago my car started vibrating but only while going up hill, once the road leveled out or started going downhill the vibrating would stop. It started off very slight but as each day passed the vibrating got more frequent and more violent. Having said that, though, I haven't really noticed it since I filled up with V-Power. I wonder if this could have anything to do with it or whether it's just coincidence? I'm no expert, but I think the vibrating kinda felt like fuel starvation.

[Mistermena]

My Avensis is a T-180 estate as you can see... So instead of 180bhp it'll be 195bhp at the fly I would have thought as I've never had a dyno test done as I'm not bothered really about the bhp as they are fast enought. I'm more concerened with the extra mpg as I drive some long distances in the love machine

I hate to be pedantic (actually, that's a lie; I LOVE to be pedantic) but unless I'm mistaken I think a stock T180 puts out 177.5 BHP at the flywheel as 180 is the PS rating not the BHP rating... And a dyno test wouldn't give a very accurate idea as to what the flywheel BHP will be anyway because as you know a dyno test is done at the wheels. In the past I've read lots of threads on wheel BHP vs. flywheel BHP and nobody can ever agree a set amount of power loss from the drivetrain (naturally because every car willbe different) but people are quoting anything from 15% to 25% power loss in the transmission. So if you reckon your T180 is producing 195PS at the flywheel you're probably looking at anything from 145BHP to 165BHP at the wheels. Just a though, so to put a downer on it! LOL

Well!... Since you know better than me! I'll leave you to it.

[Starlight Taxis]

I doubt I know better than you!!! Don't get offended I'm just chatting crap as usual. Just thought I'd put my 2 pence in on that one as it's something I've read about and unlike just about everything we've discussed here it's something that I actually have a smidgeon of knowledge about! LOL

[Mistermena]

Oh, one other thing I forgot to mention - Just under a week ago my car started vibrating but only while going up hill, once the road leveled out or started going downhill the vibrating would stop. It started off very slight but as each day passed the vibrating got more frequent and more violent. Having said that, though, I haven't really noticed it since I filled up with V-Power. I wonder if this could have anything to do with it or whether it's just coincidence? I'm no expert, but I think the vibrating kinda felt like fuel starvation.

It could be that the V-Power is starting to do a good cleaning job. Or (And I hope I'm wrong here) it may be the start of a clutch/DMF problem!... But as you've said, you've not noticed it since.

[Starlight Taxis]

Oh, one other thing I forgot to mention - Just under a week ago my car started vibrating but only while going up hill, once the road leveled out or started going downhill the vibrating would stop. It started off very slight but as each day passed the vibrating got more frequent and more violent. Having said that, though, I haven't really noticed it since I filled up with V-Power. I wonder if this could have anything to do with it or whether it's just coincidence? I'm no expert, but I think the vibrating kinda felt like fuel starvation.

It could be that the V-Power is starting to do a good cleaning job. Or (And I hope I'm wrong here) it may be the start of a clutch/DMF problem!... But as you've said, you've not noticed it since.

I must admit I too thought clutch but wasn't going to voice it for fear of it coming true! Either that or driveshaft. I now know it's got nothing to do with the fuel as I've been running it on V-Power since then (to try to get comparison MPG readings, but unfortunately I haven't had a run long enough without congestions to be able to cruise at a set speed for a long enough distance to get a reliable reading) and the vibrations have got worse! Well, I'd say more juddering/shuddering. It only does it above 60mph and NEVER on deceleration. It very rarely does it cruising on a level gradient. It OFTEN does it on an up-hill gradient. But as soon as I take my foot off the throttle it stopps. This indicates to me to be looking more at the driveshaft than the clutch as it never seems to be related to gear-changes. Anyone able to back this up or tell me I'm talking crap as usual?

[Mistermena]

You might be right about the drive shaft! How far up to you have to bring the clutch pedal to engage drive? This juddering only happens at 60mph and not at moving off? Does it happen when you reverse?

[Starlight Taxis]

You might be right about the drive shaft! How far up to you have to bring the clutch pedal to engage drive? This juddering only happens at 60mph and not at moving off? Does it happen when you reverse?

Thanks for your input! Bringing the clutch pedal up doesn't seem exceptionally low or high before it engages, it just seems normal to me, but will make a a special effort to test it again tomorrow to see if it is abnormally low or high before it bites. Juddering happens 60mph and upwards, never happened when moving off and never in reverse either.

[Mistermena]

Does the steering wheel also judder at this speed? and not others?

[Starlight Taxis]

.

[Starlight Taxis]

The steering wheel doesn't judder at all, it just seems like it's the engine. My mechanic has taken it out today and isn't convinced it's a driveshaft problem, he's thinking flywheel but said take it back and see if it gets any worse. I'm not completely happy about this as although it wasn't really playing up when I took it out for work this morning (and this is obviously why he's said take it back and see if it gets worse as it probably wasn't doing it that bad for him when he took it out), but yesterday it was shuddering very violently indeed and it's embarrissing for me when I've got customers onboard and probably very concerning for the customers too.

[Mistermena]

The steering wheel doesn't judder at all, it just seems like it's the engine. My mechanic has taken it out today and isn't convinced it's a driveshaft problem, he's thinking flywheel but said take it back and see if it gets any worse. I'm not completely happy about this as although it wasn't really playing up when I took it out for work this morning (and this is obviously why he's said take it back and see if it gets worse as it probably wasn't doing it that bad for him when he took it out), but yesterday it was shuddering very violently indeed and it's embarrissing for me when I've got customers onboard and probably very concerning for the customers too.

I hope he's wrong tbh as they are not cheap! But if you do need a new one its an expensive labour job to do. The original Toyota DMF and clutch kit is made by LUK... And again they are expensive from Mr T. These might help you...http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390381303876?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

http://www.ebay.co.u...984.m1423.l2649

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item4cef4b72ce

I have seen genuine Toyota clutch kits (With DMF) gone for £250 off eBay! But they dont come up that oftern tbh.

I bought a genuine kit off one of the mods off this forum as a just in case! Hope I done have to drop the box out as it looks like a pig to do. Some on here have had a new clutch fitted when the engines were rebuilt! (As theres not labour charge) I think Mr T charges about £800 for doing it normaly...

[Starlight Taxis]

Thanks for that, it's very helpful. When I changed the clutch and DMF in my Mondeo (it was at 342k when some bugger smashed into it and had only ever had the clutch and DMF changed once in all that time!!!) I looked into getting a solid flywheel but my mechanic advised against it. Didn't really give a specific reason, just kinda said "well look, the genuine original part has gone 180k before needing to be changed, why would you wanna fu(k around experimenting with something like that when you don't know if it's going to go pear-shaped". On that basis I decided to go with his advice, which was also to go for another genuine part as they clearly go the distance! Yeah an OEM part may only be half the price of a genuine one, but if they go half the distance of a genuine one you've still gotta pay 100% of the labour charge next time you have to change it so it's a false economy really (IF the OEM part only goes half the distance of a genuine one!).

Anyway, can any pros and cons for solid flywheel conversion? My main concern is jolty gear changes...

My mechanic said he done a clutch and DMF in a D-4D Rav4 recently and the DMF alone was £800 just for the part without the clutch and labour...?

[Mistermena]

You will find that the genuine Toyota parts are just LUK ones but stamped with Toyota! There will be no difference in the 2 parts, apart from the price. The reason why some diesels have DMF over SMF is to do with a smother transfer of power to and to help reduce the load on the gearbox. Some (Like VW Polo 1.4 TDi) have single mass as the power isn't as great compaired to the 1.9Pd and 2.0 that have DMF.

I would agree with the tech and stick with the DMF. Take a look at the SACH's kits as they are also very good.

[Starlight Taxis]

Right, I don't want to go fu(king my gearbox up any time soon!!! DMF it is then (as opposed to SMF)! And if the Genuine Toyota clutch kit is made by LUK, then I'll just get an LUK kit as cheap as I can (probably on Ebay) IF indeed it is the DMF that's playing up here. But obviously, even if it is a driveshaft problem and not the DMF, this knowledge will certainly be usefuly in the future as a clutch and flywheel change is inevitable for me, so thanks for that!

[Mistermena]

No probs at all mate...

[Dumle]

Hi

Just had the dredded EGR problem and Mr T kindly offered to change the engine free of charge.

Having read other posts on this forum I asked if they could check the clutch for me.

Ouch.... Need new clutch and flywheel..... Mr T kindly not charging for labour but total still comes in at over £1200....

So after 77K I now have to replace Engine , clutch and flywheel. I know I should be happy about a new free engine on an 08 Avensis t180, but £1200....... that stings.....

[RichT180]

Dear fellow TOC members

I've just recently bought my first ever Toyota so have decided to join up here so that I can benefit from the wealth of knowledge that I'm sure will be available to me, and hopefully in time I'll be able to start giving advice back to others.

I bought a 2008 57reg Avensis 2.2 D-4D T180 estate on Saturday and am very pleased with it, other than the fact that the fuel consumption is VERY disappointing to say the least! According to the data I've seen I should be expecting to average 53.3mpg on the motorway, 37.2mpg round town and 45.6mpg combined. I have to say I'm struggling to get 45mpg on the motorway, and that's doing 55mph in 6th gear!!! Doing 70mph returns around 40mpg or less. Combined average is probably high 30's.

I mean, I was getting better fuel economy out of my Saab 9-5 3.0 V6 TiD!!!

Also it doesn't feel as fast as my Saab did and according to the statistics 0-62mph for my Avensis is 8.6 seconds whereas the Saab is only 9.3 seconds, top speed for my Avensis is 137mph whereas the Saab is only 131mph and power is 177PS for my Avensis whereas the Saab is 1 less at 176PS.

I mean don't get me wrong, the Avensis still feels quick, just nowhere near as quick as I was expecting it to feel in comparison to the Saab. Feels more similar to the 130PS 2.0TDCi Mondeo I had... but at least the Mondeo easily returned 50mpg, even combined! Maybe this is just more refined that the Saab and because of the smoother ride I'm not feeling that it's as quick as the Saab was but maybe it actually is, maybe even quicker but I'm just not feeling it (kinda like the difference between a go-kart and a Porsche Cayenne, obviously the Caynne will be quicker but the go-kart will almost certainly FEEL quicker). BUT the Avensis also seems to have a very narrow power band, whereas the Saab just kept pulling like a train all the way from 1,500rpm up to the red line and beyond. The Avensis only seems to have power at around 2,000rpm.

Something has to be wrong with it! Can anyone please kindly give some suggestions as to what may be causing this poor fuel consumption and seemingly poor performance as I seem to be getting around 35mpg combined and that's driving it VERY carefully and conservatively!

Kind regards

Mike

I've had my car since January. 56 2007 with 48,000 miles. Totally agree with the fuel consumption and lack of power until you hit 2000 rpm. I was achieving 33 mpg combined. Managed 38 on a trip to Liverpool, but like yourself 60 mph in 6th gear. Fortunately found this site, hold on i'll get there in a min lol, EGR valve! Cleaned mine last week and it made an improvement. Still wasn't pleased, so I did it again this morning but this time used some carb cleaner on the valve. How To Clean An Auris T180 / Sr180 Egr Valve, This Could Be A Good Ide - Toyota Owners Club - Toyota Forum

The car feels so much smoother and alot more responsive at revs as low as 1200. Drove 70 miles after filling up, half motorway at 70, 80 mph and half normal at peak time. Just filled up again and put £7.50 in???? I've reset my trip and going to test this week. I'll let you know how I get on. I'm loving the car though, can't wait for the Family holiday this year, I get to drive to the south of France :D :D :D