Bl00Dy Car Wash

[webleymk3]

My ole man got one of these groupon deals for a full car valet for me as a gift. 'result' I think to myself. Thanks very much.

Mrs Wibblers takes her in today and they have done a smashing job inside. Only problem is they put it thru a machine to clean the outside. Now she already has those circular scratches which Ole Kev has offered to work on so a bit frustrated it wasn't a hand wash but ach well. The bu66ers didn't polish it tho.

HOWEVER... I have a bike rack permanently strapped to the roof of said car. I hadnt realised it would be a machine and MrsW was none the wiser. The fricken numpties ran the car thru and bent the bike rack which in turn bent the roof bars. MrsW didn't notice when she came back as she was worrying about getting BabyWibbler into the car.

The shiester even charged her an extra £5 (payable on collection) as its a 4x4. It's smaller than a bl00dy Ford Focus (did we not prove that on a previous post??

I was in late tonight so they were shut when I got in. Theyll be getting a call in the morning.

Well hacked off. I seem to go from one thing to another.....

[Davrav]

As Kev would say Webblers, I'll choose my own lottery tickets thanks.

What a bunch of idiots.

They chose to put your car through the wash with the rack on, they caused the damage, they put it right.

[CharlieFarlie]

The problem with putting a car through one of those very damaging machines (Apart from bending bike racks ) is that they inflict scratches to the delicate paint on Your car... Lacquers these days are water based and therefore very soft in comparison to the older type oil based paints. This is just in case the wee ones are outside chewing on the wheel arch of the car and getting poisoned..

Every time a car is machine polished in order to remove these tens of thousands of tiny scratches commonly called swirl marks you are effectively reducing the thickness of the lacquer coat ..

Obviously the depth of the scratches is the vital element here as polish to deep and you can/will go through the lacquer.. This can only be rectified by re painting the struck through area.. Not nice !!

I use a Defelsko Positector multi layer paint depth gauge which measures both the combined thickness of the paint coat and the lacquer.. Said machine can also identify the actual thickness of the paint and lacquer individually. As it is the lacquer that is polished this is the critical thickness I need to know...

You can save yourself a load of agg by simply NOT using a car wash machine in the first place though !!

Problem with those groupon deals is that the price means a quality compromise is inevitable ! IE they do a crap job !!

If they have damaged the car they will have to repair it but I bet they will have disclaimer notices up ???

The car has a smaller footprint than a Focus but has a far bigger painted area so they can easily justify the extra 5 quid... If I were asked to Machine polish a Focus or a Rav the time set aside to do the job would be totally different !!

Paint on Japanese cars is soft so take care ... Oh and good luck !

Before polish.. Lots of deep swirls......

After polish....

[Hoovie]

I have to say that having something that is called a "Full Car Valet" would not say to me they were using a car wash machine!! what a rip off :(

I am not as obsessional demanding (I think Charlie may agree that could be an appropriate word) as Charlie when it comes to car cleaning (and if you put our cars side by side it would be clear which was whose) but I have not used a car wash for well over 10 years now and don't think I would if you paid me to! (well, actually the last time I did use a car wash was in 2009 but that was to clean Local Heros RAV4, so that doesn't count ;) (just a joke, Stew :) ))

[Davrav]

I have a VELA brushless car wash not too far away and use that occasionally when the RAV gets really crud covered. It's a bit like driving through a monsoon and is a cost effective pre-wash.

[webleymk3]

CF. I know. As with Hoovie I assumed a full valet meant it would be hand washed.

Called them this morning. The guy told me as it was full valet they wouldn't put it thru the machine and that it would have been hand washed. This is obviously a lie. He told me the machine wouldn't allow a car with Roof Rack to go thru as the sensors detect it and stop the machine - another lie. He also said if it did go through, the machine would be broken!!!! He made mention of cameras in the machine but very quickly back peddled when I suggested we sit down and look at them together!!!! I spoke to the head office afterwards as I am concerned they will delete the tape if it exists.

I asked him to explain to me why, if it was handwashed, was the roof dirty and covered in shampoo splatters. Either the machine dripped on it and couldn't clear it due to the rack or their guys threw shampoo on it and didn't clean it down. I suspect the former.

Need to go to the car wash this afternoon to fill in a form for it to be investigated.

Its more than £200 of damage which if i have yo pay will come from the repair fund I was planning on spending to fix Mr Range Rover's reshapIng of my car.

Even if there was signage, the car was left with them to wash. We did not take it through the machine, they did. They simply should have said it couldn't be done. What worse is the Roof Rack keys and removal tools are in the car!! They could have removed it!!!

*sigh*

[Davrav]

Log a complaint with Groupon too - they acted as agent for the Car wash pillocks.

[Hoovie]

I heard (on BBC Watchdog maybe? or on BBC website?) that Groupon have been given 3 months by the OFT to clean up their act about lots of the offers they are promoting (mostly on stuff like hotels and spa days where dates are never available)

[CharlieFarlie]

For a full Valet the car should be washed properly and dried, Interior hovered and cleaned. ect ect.. It really depends on what You/We/ or I want from it ??

Makes no difference if its done by hand sometimes cos if the waters full of grit and particles picked up off the car and put into the wash bucket the results can be just as bad or even worse.....

When I was My car I foam it first and leave it to stand so the foam can soften the muck and grime..

This is after the wheels have been sprayed with a non acidic wheel cleaner and arches sprayed with G101....

Then comes a pressure wash with a high flow Kranzle power washer. Wheels are power washed back AND front using a special U shaped adaptor to reach behind the wheels through the spokes..

Car will then be foamed again and sponged using a very soft sponge .. I keep the sponge clean by constantly dipping and rinsing it in clean warm water with a grit guard in the bottom.. The grit guard means all particles and crap stay at the bottom of the bucket and don't get picked up again..

Drying... Once the car is absolutely clean and peen once again power washed off I spray the entire car with detailing spray.. This adds wax and leaves a clear flawless finish to the paint glass and all plastics.. Car is the towelled using very large dedicated car drying microfibre towel's....

I never use a chamois leather and never use a water blade.....

Now would You expect the local Valeter to take that amount of care ?? Well I would but lets be honest it aint gonna happen !! Especially if they are doing the job for half price !!

Obsession ? Well yes I would not argue with that.. But I like cars.. I actually enjoy cleaning them if the car is nice.. With the right set up doing it the way I do takes hardly any longer than just blasting over with a grit filled sponge..........

.

When I am away fro home the car simply does not get a wash till I'm home again.. I don't car how bad it looks or gets.. It gets left and that's an end to it .....

I think the problem with these groupon deals is We expect a quality job for peanuts..... Hardly likely is it....

[Hoovie]

indeed that is the case charlie, peasnuts and monkeys :(

I swear by the 2 bucket and gritguard method myself and fingers crossed, have avoided scratches and swirls from washing on the last two cars. If I get anyone offering to wash the car for me, I interrogate them first on HOW they propose to do it and then usually say "no thanks". maybe I am obsessed as well to a degree? :D

[CharlieFarlie]

indeed that is the case charlie, peasnuts and monkeys :(

I swear by the 2 bucket and gritguard method myself and fingers crossed, have avoided scratches and swirls from washing on the last two cars. If I get anyone offering to wash the car for me, I interrogate them first on HOW they propose to do it and then usually say "no thanks". maybe I am obsessed as well to a degree? :D

David I don't use two buckets.. After the first foam is well power washed off I re foam This is the soap content,, The bucket is used just to rinse the sponge clean....

[firemac]

For a full Valet the car should be washed properly and dried, Interior hovered and cleaned. ect ect.. It really depends on what You/We/ or I want from it ??

Makes no difference if its done by hand sometimes cos if the waters full of grit and particles picked up off the car and put into the wash bucket the results can be just as bad or even worse.....

When I was My car I foam it first and leave it to stand so the foam can soften the muck and grime..

This is after the wheels have been sprayed with a non acidic wheel cleaner and arches sprayed with G101....

Then comes a pressure wash with a high flow Kranzle power washer. Wheels are power washed back AND front using a special U shaped adaptor to reach behind the wheels through the spokes..

Car will then be foamed again and sponged using a very soft sponge .. I keep the sponge clean by constantly dipping and rinsing it in clean warm water with a grit guard in the bottom.. The grit guard means all particles and crap stay at the bottom of the bucket and don't get picked up again..

Drying... Once the car is absolutely clean and peen once again power washed off I spray the entire car with detailing spray.. This adds wax and leaves a clear flawless finish to the paint glass and all plastics.. Car is the towelled using very large dedicated car drying microfibre towel's....

I never use a chamois leather and never use a water blade.....

Now would You expect the local Valeter to take that amount of care ?? Well I would but lets be honest it aint gonna happen !! Especially if they are doing the job for half price !!

Obsession ? Well yes I would not argue with that.. But I like cars.. I actually enjoy cleaning them if the car is nice.. With the right set up doing it the way I do takes hardly any longer than just blasting over with a grit filled sponge..........

.

When I am away fro home the car simply does not get a wash till I'm home again.. I don't car how bad it looks or gets.. It gets left and that's an end to it .....

I think the problem with these groupon deals is We expect a quality job for peanuts..... Hardly likely is it....

Hi Charlie,

I can understand your approach. I like to keep our cars sparkly but it's the time available given everything else that has to be done. But a couple of your comments raise questions for me:

I always thought that sponges were bad news because of the liklihood of trapping grit between the sponge & the paintwork. Isn't a good quality car wash brush better?

Also, what's your view on clay bars? I've not used one before but I was looking at a Bilt Hamber offer of shampoo, clay bar & auto-balm polish. I've never heard of them before so wasn't sure about their quality, etc.

Given your "obsession" it might be helpful for the rest of us, if you had the time, to pin your recommendations for the various products as well as tips on doing it properly. Your RAV certainly has a tremendous finish.

Cheers,

Jim

[Big Kev]

For a full Valet the car should be washed properly and dried, Interior hovered and cleaned. ect ect.. It really depends on what You/We/ or I want from it ??

Makes no difference if its done by hand sometimes cos if the waters full of grit and particles picked up off the car and put into the wash bucket the results can be just as bad or even worse.....

When I was My car I foam it first and leave it to stand so the foam can soften the muck and grime..

This is after the wheels have been sprayed with a non acidic wheel cleaner and arches sprayed with G101....

Then comes a pressure wash with a high flow Kranzle power washer. Wheels are power washed back AND front using a special U shaped adaptor to reach behind the wheels through the spokes..

Car will then be foamed again and sponged using a very soft sponge .. I keep the sponge clean by constantly dipping and rinsing it in clean warm water with a grit guard in the bottom.. The grit guard means all particles and crap stay at the bottom of the bucket and don't get picked up again..

Drying... Once the car is absolutely clean and peen once again power washed off I spray the entire car with detailing spray.. This adds wax and leaves a clear flawless finish to the paint glass and all plastics.. Car is the towelled using very large dedicated car drying microfibre towel's....

I never use a chamois leather and never use a water blade.....

Now would You expect the local Valeter to take that amount of care ?? Well I would but lets be honest it aint gonna happen !! Especially if they are doing the job for half price !!

Obsession ? Well yes I would not argue with that.. But I like cars.. I actually enjoy cleaning them if the car is nice.. With the right set up doing it the way I do takes hardly any longer than just blasting over with a grit filled sponge..........

.

When I am away fro home the car simply does not get a wash till I'm home again.. I don't car how bad it looks or gets.. It gets left and that's an end to it .....

I think the problem with these groupon deals is We expect a quality job for peanuts..... Hardly likely is it....

Hi Charlie,

I can understand your approach. I like to keep our cars sparkly but it's the time available given everything else that has to be done. But a couple of your comments raise questions for me:

I always thought that sponges were bad news because of the liklihood of trapping grit between the sponge & the paintwork. Isn't a good quality car wash brush better?

Also, what's your view on clay bars? I've not used one before but I was looking at a Bilt Hamber offer of shampoo, clay bar & auto-balm polish. I've never heard of them before so wasn't sure about their quality, etc.

Given your "obsession" it might be helpful for the rest of us, if you had the time, to pin your recommendations for the various products as well as tips on doing it properly. Your RAV certainly has a tremendous finish.

Cheers,

Jim

Jimbob.......wee Charlie can reply for himself, but if ah see ye using ANY kind of brush on yer motors, ah will post ye down a Glesga Kiss.....brushes, unless they are the size and softness of your father's old shaving brush, are a complete naw naw. As for clay bars, the Bilt Hamber stuff is good and I put Clare on to them last year, and they work out commercially sound as they are WATER lubricated, but you may have to use pretty warm water to soften them into usable shape first.

I have recently been using clay bars from Clean Your Car. co.uk (nice folks too) and these are much less aggressive than the 'Hambers and dead easy to mould into shape (and indeed come in wee slab shapes anyway.) These are supposed to be used with Clay Lubricants rather than watter. Have also tried the Megs' Blue clay bars....superb but paying for the name.

I personally use a microfibre mitt, but there are quite expensive sponges out there that apparently don't impart the swirlies, more than likely that's what Charlie refers to.

I am still very much a novice at this obsessive hobby (I call it The Chris Rea of Car Cleaning.....Road to Hell.....) and still have much to learn and only recently nearly made a pants of heating some polish into top coat with my machine which I reported to Charlie who gave me two weeks detention for being a diddy....

Kleaner Kev

[acetip]

A soft hand brush will do far less damage to paintwork even Toyota paintwork.

your brushing the dirt etc away not grinding it in as with a cloth or mitt.

Wifes hyundai is a bright yellow in colour and non metalic type paint and has been through local BP petrol stations car wash many times in the 4 years and does not have the slightes signs of damage or swirls.In fact the finish looks as good as new.

My son puts his Lexus through the same washer almost every week this time of year and he has no problems and i imagine the finish is the same as a Toyota is.

i should think most swirl marks are caused by dirt held in cloths / mitts.

In winter i use the local car wash and summer its a handwash.

Not all car wahing machine are bad. our local one is very good. its drying function works very well.

the only problem with this machine is having to queue to use it although there are other machines not far away. but most owners prefer this one .

[CharlieFarlie]

For a full Valet the car should be washed properly and dried, Interior hovered and cleaned. ect ect.. It really depends on what You/We/ or I want from it ??

Makes no difference if its done by hand sometimes cos if the waters full of grit and particles picked up off the car and put into the wash bucket the results can be just as bad or even worse.....

When I was My car I foam it first and leave it to stand so the foam can soften the muck and grime..

This is after the wheels have been sprayed with a non acidic wheel cleaner and arches sprayed with G101....

Then comes a pressure wash with a high flow Kranzle power washer. Wheels are power washed back AND front using a special U shaped adaptor to reach behind the wheels through the spokes..

Car will then be foamed again and sponged using a very soft sponge .. I keep the sponge clean by constantly dipping and rinsing it in clean warm water with a grit guard in the bottom.. The grit guard means all particles and crap stay at the bottom of the bucket and don't get picked up again..

Drying... Once the car is absolutely clean and peen once again power washed off I spray the entire car with detailing spray.. This adds wax and leaves a clear flawless finish to the paint glass and all plastics.. Car is the towelled using very large dedicated car drying microfibre towel's....

I never use a chamois leather and never use a water blade.....

Now would You expect the local Valeter to take that amount of care ?? Well I would but lets be honest it aint gonna happen !! Especially if they are doing the job for half price !!

Obsession ? Well yes I would not argue with that.. But I like cars.. I actually enjoy cleaning them if the car is nice.. With the right set up doing it the way I do takes hardly any longer than just blasting over with a grit filled sponge..........

.

When I am away fro home the car simply does not get a wash till I'm home again.. I don't car how bad it looks or gets.. It gets left and that's an end to it .....

I think the problem with these groupon deals is We expect a quality job for peanuts..... Hardly likely is it....

Hi Charlie,

I can understand your approach. I like to keep our cars sparkly but it's the time available given everything else that has to be done. But a couple of your comments raise questions for me:

I always thought that sponges were bad news because of the liklihood of trapping grit between the sponge & the paintwork. Isn't a good quality car wash brush better?

Also, what's your view on clay bars? I've not used one before but I was looking at a Bilt Hamber offer of shampoo, clay bar & auto-balm polish. I've never heard of them before so wasn't sure about their quality, etc.

Given your "obsession" it might be helpful for the rest of us, if you had the time, to pin your recommendations for the various products as well as tips on doing it properly. Your RAV certainly has a tremendous finish.

Cheers,

Jim

Jim.. Guide to polishing here...

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=127259&st=0&p=1133029entry1133029

If a guide to washing techniques is asked for I will happily do one...

clay bars or claying is an essential part of Polishing.. Whole car should be clayed before the polishing to help eliminate the clogging of the polish on the pad.. Claying also removes the bonded contaminates like road film light tar and all the crap that falls out of the sky...

Clay bars come in many many grades and levels of abrasiveness .. If the paint is heavily soiled go aggressive. If its light soil say like a well looked after car then a nice light cut bar is far better,

Lubricate by spraying or misting the panel with a 50/50 mix of detailing spray and clean water. Using water alone simply makes the job harder and without the extra lubrication the detailing spray gives the bar can stick and cause micro marring.. It can in some cases make the polishing process harder than if You didn't bother..

Brushes are a definite NO NO Mate !! I use a sponge which many frown upon but the car will have been very well power washed before a sponge goes anywhere near the car.. Trust Me I have never had a problem using a sponge...

I use B&Q grouting sponges at around a quid a time.. They have a very delicate soft finish and due to their construction carry a loy of water from the bucket to the cars paintwork.. Brilliant and cheap !! Zymol sponges are nearly as good but around 11 quid a pop....

[Manxrav]

Good advice from Charlie and Big Kev. I never use a sponge or chamios, and do the 2 bucket method with grit guard. Finish it off with micro fibre drying towel. I,ve got some clay sent over which is a little bit less agressive than BH so I,m trying that this weekend if weather permits.

Sundays at our house is like a car, carwash and guess who,s doing the Donkey work!!! But I love doing it

Regards Clare

[CharlieFarlie]

For a full Valet the car should be washed properly and dried, Interior hovered and cleaned. ect ect.. It really depends on what You/We/ or I want from it ??

Makes no difference if its done by hand sometimes cos if the waters full of grit and particles picked up off the car and put into the wash bucket the results can be just as bad or even worse.....

When I was My car I foam it first and leave it to stand so the foam can soften the muck and grime..

This is after the wheels have been sprayed with a non acidic wheel cleaner and arches sprayed with G101....

Then comes a pressure wash with a high flow Kranzle power washer. Wheels are power washed back AND front using a special U shaped adaptor to reach behind the wheels through the spokes..

Car will then be foamed again and sponged using a very soft sponge .. I keep the sponge clean by constantly dipping and rinsing it in clean warm water with a grit guard in the bottom.. The grit guard means all particles and crap stay at the bottom of the bucket and don't get picked up again..

Drying... Once the car is absolutely clean and peen once again power washed off I spray the entire car with detailing spray.. This adds wax and leaves a clear flawless finish to the paint glass and all plastics.. Car is the towelled using very large dedicated car drying microfibre towel's....

I never use a chamois leather and never use a water blade.....

Now would You expect the local Valeter to take that amount of care ?? Well I would but lets be honest it aint gonna happen !! Especially if they are doing the job for half price !!

Obsession ? Well yes I would not argue with that.. But I like cars.. I actually enjoy cleaning them if the car is nice.. With the right set up doing it the way I do takes hardly any longer than just blasting over with a grit filled sponge..........

.

When I am away fro home the car simply does not get a wash till I'm home again.. I don't car how bad it looks or gets.. It gets left and that's an end to it .....

I think the problem with these groupon deals is We expect a quality job for peanuts..... Hardly likely is it....

Hi Charlie,

I can understand your approach. I like to keep our cars sparkly but it's the time available given everything else that has to be done. But a couple of your comments raise questions for me:

I always thought that sponges were bad news because of the liklihood of trapping grit between the sponge & the paintwork. Isn't a good quality car wash brush better?

Also, what's your view on clay bars? I've not used one before but I was looking at a Bilt Hamber offer of shampoo, clay bar & auto-balm polish. I've never heard of them before so wasn't sure about their quality, etc.

Given your "obsession" it might be helpful for the rest of us, if you had the time, to pin your recommendations for the various products as well as tips on doing it properly. Your RAV certainly has a tremendous finish.

Cheers,

Jim

A soft hand brush will do far less damage to paintwork even Toyota paintwork.

your brushing the dirt etc away not grinding it in as with a cloth or mitt.

Wifes hyundai is a bright yellow in colour and non metalic type paint and has been through local BP petrol stations car wash many times in the 4 years and does not have the slightes signs of damage or swirls.In fact the finish looks as good as new.

My son puts his Lexus through the same washer almost every week this time of year and he has no problems and i imagine the finish is the same as a Toyota is.

i should think most swirl marks are caused by dirt held in cloths / mitts.

In winter i use the local car wash and summer its a handwash.

Not all car wahing machine are bad. our local one is very good. its drying function works very well.

the only problem with this machine is having to queue to use it although there are other machines not far away. but most owners prefer this one .

Peter. It is widely regarded in detailing circles that the use of a brush no matter how soft is an absolute NO NO ! The practice of putting a car through a car wash is just as bad possibly worse,,, Sorry but that advice no matter how ell intended is very poor indeed....

It depends on the standards required ? Many think that a car washed or polished no matter how bad is a good job........

Colour of paint makes a HUGE difference to how badly swirls stand out.. Whites and silvers are best colours for hiding them.. Blacks Dark blues ect are the worst for showing...

When polishing I use a special torch so I can examine the paints surface in detail so I know for sure the swirling has gone completely...

Of course sponges wash mits or just about anything You touch the car with has the potential to do damage or inflict swirlling.. Its hoe the tools are used and the preparation that makes all the difference and which tools used as some are just a disaster waiting to happen !!

[Big Kev]

Here's a wee tip re the "two buckets" method.......I bought myself a really expensive Asda Mop Bucket, y'know the one with the separate section for wringing out the mop in.....? Well that's where I sit and store my wash mitt, so it never gets anywhere near the bottom of my wash bucket, singular.....the prices I have seen for the two buckets and their grid panels to sit inside would bring tears tae a glass eye....!!!!

Expensive mop bucket.......less than 5 soveez at Asda.

Krafty Kev

[firemac]

For a full Valet the car should be washed properly and dried, Interior hovered and cleaned. ect ect.. It really depends on what You/We/ or I want from it ??

Makes no difference if its done by hand sometimes cos if the waters full of grit and particles picked up off the car and put into the wash bucket the results can be just as bad or even worse.....

When I was My car I foam it first and leave it to stand so the foam can soften the muck and grime..

This is after the wheels have been sprayed with a non acidic wheel cleaner and arches sprayed with G101....

Then comes a pressure wash with a high flow Kranzle power washer. Wheels are power washed back AND front using a special U shaped adaptor to reach behind the wheels through the spokes..

Car will then be foamed again and sponged using a very soft sponge .. I keep the sponge clean by constantly dipping and rinsing it in clean warm water with a grit guard in the bottom.. The grit guard means all particles and crap stay at the bottom of the bucket and don't get picked up again..

Drying... Once the car is absolutely clean and peen once again power washed off I spray the entire car with detailing spray.. This adds wax and leaves a clear flawless finish to the paint glass and all plastics.. Car is the towelled using very large dedicated car drying microfibre towel's....

I never use a chamois leather and never use a water blade.....

Now would You expect the local Valeter to take that amount of care ?? Well I would but lets be honest it aint gonna happen !! Especially if they are doing the job for half price !!

Obsession ? Well yes I would not argue with that.. But I like cars.. I actually enjoy cleaning them if the car is nice.. With the right set up doing it the way I do takes hardly any longer than just blasting over with a grit filled sponge..........

.

When I am away fro home the car simply does not get a wash till I'm home again.. I don't car how bad it looks or gets.. It gets left and that's an end to it .....

I think the problem with these groupon deals is We expect a quality job for peanuts..... Hardly likely is it....

Hi Charlie,

I can understand your approach. I like to keep our cars sparkly but it's the time available given everything else that has to be done. But a couple of your comments raise questions for me:

I always thought that sponges were bad news because of the liklihood of trapping grit between the sponge & the paintwork. Isn't a good quality car wash brush better?

Also, what's your view on clay bars? I've not used one before but I was looking at a Bilt Hamber offer of shampoo, clay bar & auto-balm polish. I've never heard of them before so wasn't sure about their quality, etc.

Given your "obsession" it might be helpful for the rest of us, if you had the time, to pin your recommendations for the various products as well as tips on doing it properly. Your RAV certainly has a tremendous finish.

Cheers,

Jim

Jim.. Guide to polishing here...

http://www.toyotaown...9

If a guide to washing techniques is asked for I will happily do one...

clay bars or claying is an essential part of Polishing.. Whole car should be clayed before the polishing to help eliminate the clogging of the polish on the pad.. Claying also removes the bonded contaminates like road film light tar and all the crap that falls out of the sky...

Clay bars come in many many grades and levels of abrasiveness .. If the paint is heavily soiled go aggressive. If its light soil say like a well looked after car then a nice light cut bar is far better,

Lubricate by spraying or misting the panel with a 50/50 mix of detailing spray and clean water. Using water alone simply makes the job harder and without the extra lubrication the detailing spray gives the bar can stick and cause micro marring.. It can in some cases make the polishing process harder than if You didn't bother..

Brushes are a definite NO NO Mate !! I use a sponge which many frown upon but the car will have been very well power washed before a sponge goes anywhere near the car.. Trust Me I have never had a problem using a sponge...

I use B&Q grouting sponges at around a quid a time.. They have a very delicate soft finish and due to their construction carry a loy of water from the bucket to the cars paintwork.. Brilliant and cheap !! Zymol sponges are nearly as good but around 11 quid a pop....

Thanks, Charlie. Very helpful re the clay bars. I'll pick up a couple of the grouting sponges next time I'm in B&Q and give them a try.

Cheers,

Jim

[CharlieFarlie]

Kev... I have a MEGA expensive wash bucket made by "Sonus" great big thing it is with a 3 inch deep grit guard in the bottom it has a wee trolley thing it sits on and 3 sets of casters so You don't have to carry it !! Has a big screw on lid and a cushion that sits on top of the lid...... Blimey its !Removed! !! Never used the bugger !! For fear of one of Me Mates turning up and assuming I had started batting for the other side ....................... Errr would You like to buy it ........................ B)

[Big Kev]

Kev... I have a MEGA expensive wash bucket made by "Sonus" great big thing it is with a 3 inch deep grit guard in the bottom it has a wee trolley thing it sits on and 3 sets of casters so You don't have to carry it !! Has a big screw on lid and a cushion that sits on top of the lid...... Blimey its Gay !! Never used the bugger !! For fear of one of Me Mates turning up and assuming I had started batting for the other side ....................... Errr would You like to buy it ........................ B)

So it's OK me looking gay with yer big Bayne and Duckett, mate.....? Cheers....just ordered up ma first official drying towel, and am totally aware I need to visit that well known High St Outlet...."Life"....have left a section with the polish heated in to let you see how close ah was to being really stupit.....

Kareful Kev...now...

[acetip]

For a full Valet the car should be washed properly and dried, Interior hovered and cleaned. ect ect.. It really depends on what You/We/ or I want from it ??

Makes no difference if its done by hand sometimes cos if the waters full of grit and particles picked up off the car and put into the wash bucket the results can be just as bad or even worse.....

When I was My car I foam it first and leave it to stand so the foam can soften the muck and grime..

This is after the wheels have been sprayed with a non acidic wheel cleaner and arches sprayed with G101....

Then comes a pressure wash with a high flow Kranzle power washer. Wheels are power washed back AND front using a special U shaped adaptor to reach behind the wheels through the spokes..

Car will then be foamed again and sponged using a very soft sponge .. I keep the sponge clean by constantly dipping and rinsing it in clean warm water with a grit guard in the bottom.. The grit guard means all particles and crap stay at the bottom of the bucket and don't get picked up again..

Drying... Once the car is absolutely clean and peen once again power washed off I spray the entire car with detailing spray.. This adds wax and leaves a clear flawless finish to the paint glass and all plastics.. Car is the towelled using very large dedicated car drying microfibre towel's....

I never use a chamois leather and never use a water blade.....

Now would You expect the local Valeter to take that amount of care ?? Well I would but lets be honest it aint gonna happen !! Especially if they are doing the job for half price !!

Obsession ? Well yes I would not argue with that.. But I like cars.. I actually enjoy cleaning them if the car is nice.. With the right set up doing it the way I do takes hardly any longer than just blasting over with a grit filled sponge..........

.

When I am away fro home the car simply does not get a wash till I'm home again.. I don't car how bad it looks or gets.. It gets left and that's an end to it .....

I think the problem with these groupon deals is We expect a quality job for peanuts..... Hardly likely is it....

Hi Charlie,

I can understand your approach. I like to keep our cars sparkly but it's the time available given everything else that has to be done. But a couple of your comments raise questions for me:

I always thought that sponges were bad news because of the liklihood of trapping grit between the sponge & the paintwork. Isn't a good quality car wash brush better?

Also, what's your view on clay bars? I've not used one before but I was looking at a Bilt Hamber offer of shampoo, clay bar & auto-balm polish. I've never heard of them before so wasn't sure about their quality, etc.

Given your "obsession" it might be helpful for the rest of us, if you had the time, to pin your recommendations for the various products as well as tips on doing it properly. Your RAV certainly has a tremendous finish.

Cheers,

Jim

A soft hand brush will do far less damage to paintwork even Toyota paintwork.

your brushing the dirt etc away not grinding it in as with a cloth or mitt.

Wifes hyundai is a bright yellow in colour and non metalic type paint and has been through local BP petrol stations car wash many times in the 4 years and does not have the slightes signs of damage or swirls.In fact the finish looks as good as new.

My son puts his Lexus through the same washer almost every week this time of year and he has no problems and i imagine the finish is the same as a Toyota is.

i should think most swirl marks are caused by dirt held in cloths / mitts.

In winter i use the local car wash and summer its a handwash.

Not all car wahing machine are bad. our local one is very good. its drying function works very well.

the only problem with this machine is having to queue to use it although there are other machines not far away. but most owners prefer this one .

Peter. It is widely regarded in detailing circles that the use of a brush no matter how soft is an absolute NO NO ! The practice of putting a car through a car wash is just as bad possibly worse,,, Sorry but that advice no matter how ell intended is very poor indeed....

It depends on the standards required ? Many think that a car washed or polished no matter how bad is a good job........

Colour of paint makes a HUGE difference to how badly swirls stand out.. Whites and silvers are best colours for hiding them.. Blacks Dark blues ect are the worst for showing...

When polishing I use a special torch so I can examine the paints surface in detail so I know for sure the swirling has gone completely...

Of course sponges wash mits or just about anything You touch the car with has the potential to do damage or inflict swirlling.. Its hoe the tools are used and the preparation that makes all the difference and which tools used as some are just a disaster waiting to happen !!

As the man said 'It works for me' if you rub something you will cause marking,not so with a hand brush. simple.

as to using a special torch sounds a bit extreme. but each to its own.

forget to mention when handwashing i use water from my butt,stops those water marks.

your so correct about colours making a difference.

[jedi134]

"water from your butt". Try and explain that to a American

[CharlieFarlie]

For a full Valet the car should be washed properly and dried, Interior hovered and cleaned. ect ect.. It really depends on what You/We/ or I want from it ??

Makes no difference if its done by hand sometimes cos if the waters full of grit and particles picked up off the car and put into the wash bucket the results can be just as bad or even worse.....

When I was My car I foam it first and leave it to stand so the foam can soften the muck and grime..

This is after the wheels have been sprayed with a non acidic wheel cleaner and arches sprayed with G101....

Then comes a pressure wash with a high flow Kranzle power washer. Wheels are power washed back AND front using a special U shaped adaptor to reach behind the wheels through the spokes..

Car will then be foamed again and sponged using a very soft sponge .. I keep the sponge clean by constantly dipping and rinsing it in clean warm water with a grit guard in the bottom.. The grit guard means all particles and crap stay at the bottom of the bucket and don't get picked up again..

Drying... Once the car is absolutely clean and peen once again power washed off I spray the entire car with detailing spray.. This adds wax and leaves a clear flawless finish to the paint glass and all plastics.. Car is the towelled using very large dedicated car drying microfibre towel's....

I never use a chamois leather and never use a water blade.....

Now would You expect the local Valeter to take that amount of care ?? Well I would but lets be honest it aint gonna happen !! Especially if they are doing the job for half price !!

Obsession ? Well yes I would not argue with that.. But I like cars.. I actually enjoy cleaning them if the car is nice.. With the right set up doing it the way I do takes hardly any longer than just blasting over with a grit filled sponge..........

.

When I am away fro home the car simply does not get a wash till I'm home again.. I don't car how bad it looks or gets.. It gets left and that's an end to it .....

I think the problem with these groupon deals is We expect a quality job for peanuts..... Hardly likely is it....

Hi Charlie,

I can understand your approach. I like to keep our cars sparkly but it's the time available given everything else that has to be done. But a couple of your comments raise questions for me:

I always thought that sponges were bad news because of the liklihood of trapping grit between the sponge & the paintwork. Isn't a good quality car wash brush better?

Also, what's your view on clay bars? I've not used one before but I was looking at a Bilt Hamber offer of shampoo, clay bar & auto-balm polish. I've never heard of them before so wasn't sure about their quality, etc.

Given your "obsession" it might be helpful for the rest of us, if you had the time, to pin your recommendations for the various products as well as tips on doing it properly. Your RAV certainly has a tremendous finish.

Cheers,

Jim

A soft hand brush will do far less damage to paintwork even Toyota paintwork.

your brushing the dirt etc away not grinding it in as with a cloth or mitt.

Wifes hyundai is a bright yellow in colour and non metalic type paint and has been through local BP petrol stations car wash many times in the 4 years and does not have the slightes signs of damage or swirls.In fact the finish looks as good as new.

My son puts his Lexus through the same washer almost every week this time of year and he has no problems and i imagine the finish is the same as a Toyota is.

i should think most swirl marks are caused by dirt held in cloths / mitts.

In winter i use the local car wash and summer its a handwash.

Not all car wahing machine are bad. our local one is very good. its drying function works very well.

the only problem with this machine is having to queue to use it although there are other machines not far away. but most owners prefer this one .

Peter. It is widely regarded in detailing circles that the use of a brush no matter how soft is an absolute NO NO ! The practice of putting a car through a car wash is just as bad possibly worse,,, Sorry but that advice no matter how ell intended is very poor indeed....

It depends on the standards required ? Many think that a car washed or polished no matter how bad is a good job........

Colour of paint makes a HUGE difference to how badly swirls stand out.. Whites and silvers are best colours for hiding them.. Blacks Dark blues ect are the worst for showing...

When polishing I use a special torch so I can examine the paints surface in detail so I know for sure the swirling has gone completely...

Of course sponges wash mits or just about anything You touch the car with has the potential to do damage or inflict swirlling.. Its hoe the tools are used and the preparation that makes all the difference and which tools used as some are just a disaster waiting to happen !!

As the man said 'It works for me' if you rub something you will cause marking,not so with a hand brush. simple.

as to using a special torch sounds a bit extreme. but each to its own.

forget to mention when handwashing i use water from my butt,stops those water marks.

your so correct about colours making a difference.

Peter. Yes its extreme.. But if I am preparing a car like an Aston for a concourse competition I /We need every bit of kit and help that can be got...

Sun Gun..

http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/3m-sun-gun.html

When preparing a show car water is put through a very highly developed purifier...

My Friend brushes are really something I would only use for wheels and even then it would have to be a very soft one.. I would quite simply never put one anywhere near a painted panel especially if I had just spent 3 days polishing the car !

There is a Lady down Our Avenue that scrubs her car with one of those patio rotary brushes.. The car is a very late Vitara in black. Swirls would not describe it. It looks like its been done with a wire brush.. Works for Her though..

[acetip]

VW use to export their cars to this country covered in a thick coat of wax

My local VW dealer use contract the job of removing this wax to a chap with a portable hot spraying machine. then the car was put through a car wash they had.

ON the 3 VWs i had you would still find some of this wax that had been missed around things like door hinges,and it took some shifting.

Reminds me of when i had to travel to work and back doing 70 miles a day in all weathers. In winter i used to spray the my motorbikes paintwork and the chrome wheels with a coating of Teepo ,the bike paint work was not toughed again till spring.

THe bike looked a right mess even after a couple of weeks with this coating as the Teepol was a bit tacky.

the fuel tank was not treated but had a cover which i removed every couple of weeks and gave it a fresh coat of Simonize hard wax.

when spring came and i removed all the Teepol and gave the bike a wax and polish it came up like new,many people thought i had brought a new bike and did not beleave it was the scruffy old bike they had seen before.

The bike was BSA Superrocket the paint was not srayed at the factotry but parts were dipped into paint tanks. when given a coat of Simonize hard wax you could see your face in the tanks finish. come to think of it i used a cloth in them days,thats 50 years ago.but then the paint quality was far superior to what they use now. I never ever used a polish on the bike,just the wax

never cleaned the wax off the tank just a fresh coat on top.

To do that with a car would take too long..

Did over 120000 miles with that bike and it never had one chip on the paintwork nor rust anywhere, and did 70 to the gallon 5 star petrol 4 gallons for under a pound.

Those were the days.