Prius + Prices Released

[duncerduncs]

Along with the Plug In, the Prius + prices have also been updated on their website.

T4 £26,195

T Spirit £29,445

Is it me or is the T Spirit priced too high?

My T Spirit petrol Verso will be 3 next year and I was hoping to replace it with one of these (as Toyota no longer offer a petrol T Spirit Verso) looks like I might have to start saving my pennies now...

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Keeping my comments on this short (for me) I'll say that Toyota are overpricing all their hybrid products falsely believing that people will pay over the odds because of high fuel prices. Granted hybrids are fuel efficient, but £26,000 to £30,000 for a 7 seater car? Come on.

They'll sell a couple hundred in year one, 150 in year two, 47 in year three and it'll disappear like the Toyota Previa. If they price it right, the cars would sell. They sell elsewhere in the world but struggle here. Work it out. Toyota is NOT a premium brand, yet charges premium money. There is plenty of 7 seat competition out there that costs a third less.

Someone, somewhere in Toyota UK HQ needs sacking.

[Ancient Nerd]

Someone, somewhere in Toyota UK HQ needs sacking.

So you've come to the same conclusion. Their products are seriously overpriced. They don't give a stuff about their customers.

If you do a low mileage, then there is no way you will cover the extra cost of a current Toyota hybrid. If you do a high mileage, there is no way you are going to recover the extra depreciation.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Don't get me going. Just had a ridiculously low trade in for my car with 65k miles. Why? Because it's one of the first gen3's with the 60k mile warranty. My car is out of warranty so worthless, but if it had been one of the later ones with the 100k mile warranty then it would be demanding a higher value.

I'll be handing it back under the hp agreement in a month or so as that way I break even.

Would I buy another Prius? Yes in theory, BUT would I buy another for £21,000 upwards? Not a chance. The sums aren't adding up like they did. When I bought mine three years ago it was about £1,300 more than a base Mondeo and thus good value for the spec. Now it's about £3,000 more.

Sure, it gets great mpgs - amazing infact, but I'm not so sure about long term reliability of the gen3. I'm at 65k miles and my HV Battery is starting to show the odd sign of wear. It'll drop from 4 bars to 2 very quickly in half the time it used to do and then take an age to go back from 2 to 3, 10 seconds to go from 3 to 4 bars and then normal after that. I'm on my third steering column which were all replaced under warranty BUT cost about £1,200 + vat + fitting and next time it's my expense.

I think the gen2 was a sturdy, over engineered car that gained a good reputation for reliability. I know some parts were made smaller, redesigned to be lower cost and lower weight on the gen3 and fear that it's not going to have the same long term reliability as the gen2. That and Toyota UK originally giving it a 60k mile hybrid warranty reflect this. They only increased it to 100,000 mile after all the recall troubles they had. If I was still using it as a taxi I'd be telling the customers of my findings.

My Toyota dealers however are great and I'd probably buy an Avensis Tourer next.

[Ancient Nerd]

Don't get me going. Just had a ridiculously low trade in for my car with 65k miles. Why? Because it's one of the first gen3's with the 60k mile warranty. My car is out of warranty so worthless, but if it had been one of the later ones with the 100k mile warranty then it would be demanding a higher value.

You must surely be mistaken I have a letter from Alan Barrett, Toyota's Customer Relations Manager. In it he tells me that Toyota have checked with both Glasses Guide, and the MMA that the change in warranty will have no efect on residuals. I will be writing to both in the near future to ask for confirmation.

BTW, said manager didn't actually bother sending the letter. One of his employees was a little shirty when I asked what was happening a few months later. As in Toyota really don't give a stuff about their customers.

I'll be handing it back under the hp agreement in a month or so as that way I break even.

You might just like to have a look at the latest extended warranty. Toyota have changed the general terms of the warranty, so you might now qualify, despite the weasel warranty running out.

IIRC the warranty now runs to a higher end mileage and has a higher acceptance mileage figure.

I took this route just before my Gen III passed the 60,000. As I see it, Toyota will now be taking the big risks for some time yet. And as mine also has a similar rubbish residual, anything I get from now is cheap motoring.

It might have been different if Toyota weren't so keen to drop us in the brown stuff. But as it is, changing the car is following a massive price drop with another lot of depreciation. So one car the dealer is not going to get a profit from in the second hand market. And another new car Toyota isn't going to sell. Overall, a bigger loss to Toyota and dealer than a proper warranty would have cost.

I think my extended covers the raction Battery as well - although mine doesn't seem to show problems as yet. Although increasing the capacity of the Battery by 20%, increasing the load by 20% and reducing the size by 20% is hardly a recipe fo confidence in long term reliability.

BTW I notice there are a lot of Gen II taxis around here. All look immaculate. Why not get a low mileage late Gen II. Lots of hybrid warranty left, low cost, better build quality.

[Ancient Nerd]

If you'd like some detail as to why you have no problem with the p/x value of your car, this is what Alan Barrett said:

During the preparations for the 5 year warranty, Toyota met with Motor Industry Influencers (CAP and Glass’s Guide) and were advised that the longer warranty would have no discernable effect on residual values. This information remains the same today and confirms, according to CAP valuations, that there has been no material effect on the used car valuations of any of our models following the changes to warranty duration. We note your vehicle was registered nine months prior to the permanent change to Toyota’s five year warranty. We trust that you were happy with the package and given sufficient time to consider it prior to proceeding with the purchase.

So, if you don't get a reasonable p/x value, tell your dealer that they are mistaken!

Seriously, I see a lot of unhappy owners in the near future when they find themselves in this position.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

You must surely be mistaken I have a letter from Alan Barrett, Toyota's Customer Relations Manager. In it he tells me that Toyota have checked with both Glasses Guide, and the MMA that the change in warranty will have no efect on residuals. I will be writing to both in the near future to ask for confirmation.

BTW, said manager didn't actually bother sending the letter. One of his employees was a little shirty when I asked what was happening a few months later. As in Toyota really don't give a stuff about their customers.

It's all very well Toyota saying that, but this wasn't a Toyota dealer. Obviously car dealers want the lowest price for a trade in, but I enjoy negotiating car deals to get the best for me, but they were offering something ridiculous because of the lack of warranty saying they can't sell the early gen3's because of this.

So the gen2 had a 100k mile warranty, the gen3 from July 2010 have a 100k mile warranty, but if you purchased a gen3 between July 2009 and June 2010, then you're left with a car with **** all value as nobody wants to chance them with the lower warranty. I guess once a car gets to 100k miles it has no value anyway and thus doesn't matter either way.

I eagerly await the next Which car survey to express my displeasure. The last couple years I've given glowing reports and I guess those have been reflected in the survey as the car has come high up the leagues. Lets see what happens when it gets to the 3rd year results :)

[Ancient Nerd]

To be fair, it was only the hybrid components of the Gen II that had the 100,000 mile warranty. The standard warranty was only 60,000. However, the Gen II warranty covered ALL hybrid components, not just the Battery.

But yes, the early Gen III warranty truly justifies its weasel warranty reputation.

I suspect you are not going to get a much better warranty from a toyota dealer. After all, they have to provide a reasonable warranty to whoever buys the car. This isn't necessary for later cars, as they won't need to pay for the warranty. The difference is going to show up in your rubbish p/x value.

The only way I can see that Barrett is justified in saying there is no difference in residuals, is if the residual is based on dealer showroom prices. This makes no allowance for the cost of the missing warranty. An explanation written in pure Weasel.

[Parts-King]

It's all very well Toyota saying that, but this wasn't a Toyota dealer. Obviously car dealers want the lowest price for a trade in, but I enjoy negotiating car deals to get the best for me, but they were offering something ridiculous because of the lack of warranty saying they can't sell the early gen3's because of this.

But you can buy an extended warranty for the Battery pack, it was offered to all those who lost out, thats a nonsense statement to say they cannot sell early gen3's, seems like they are trying to legitimise hitting you in the plums, we have never had that issue selling gen 3's, I bet most non Toyota dealers have no idea in the difference in warranties

I know you guys feel hurt by the lack of warranty on early gen 3's, buy a warranty and get the better trade in value???

PS. Hybrid Yaris price announced, £14,995

Kingo

[Ancient Nerd]

But you can buy an extended warranty for the battery pack, it was offered to all those who lost out

At an insane price. I like to think of this as Toyota rubbing our noses in it.

I know you guys feel hurt by the lack of warranty on early gen 3's, buy a warranty and get the better trade in value???

Yes, we feel hurt.

Yes I've bought an extended warranty. I'm still trying to sort out the mess. As I understand it, this won't affect p/x values as dealers don't usually pass this on.

A pity that Toyota don't honour the terms on their price list. This will go to Trading Standards and Small Claims if necessary.

Seems like they are trying to legitimise hitting you in the plums, we have never had that issue selling gen 3's.

Welcome to the world of a Toyota customer

[Seamaster73]

I can't see me ordering another Prius in three years time if prices carry on in that direction. I'll be back to a Merc!

[Parts-King]

At an insane price. I like to think of this as Toyota rubbing our noses in it.

I'm not talking about a full vehicle extended warranty, you could buy an extended warranty for the HV Battery

A pity that Toyota don't honour the terms on their price list. This will go to Trading Standards and Small Claims if necessary.

I have no idea what you mean by that

Welcome to the world of a Toyota customer

I was talking about a non Toyota dealer giving GC a hit in the plums with a price to P/Ex, how is that Toyota's fault? ...........apart from the weasel warranty, too expensive, ripping people off etc etc, I dont need reminding about that again AN, you mention it in every post :D:

Kingo

[Grumpy Cabbie]

But you can buy an extended warranty for the battery pack, it was offered to all those who lost out, thats a nonsense statement to say they cannot sell early gen3's, seems like they are trying to legitimise hitting you in the plums, we have never had that issue selling gen 3's, I bet most non Toyota dealers have no idea in the difference in warranties

OK not literally not able to sell them - everything sells for a price, but they don't want them on their forecourts. I've been to Toyota and two non Toyota dealers and Toyota gave me a p*** poor price and the non Toyotas said there were warranty issues on the early new shape Prius and because of that they don't want one as a trade in or if they did the price was almost (but not quite) in gen1 territory!

I could always pay £1,000 for an extended warranty but then as others have said, that's rubbing salt into my wounds as my car is already worth less than gen2's of similar mileage! Work that one out.

If I were in America we'd be having a class action suit but I'm not so I'll offload the car when I can and learn from my mistakes. What's the old phrase "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me!"

Also considering a return to the taxi job part time and as I've indicated before I get asked about the car from 80% of the customers. This time I'll tell them as I feel. I must have sold loads by my experiences with customers for which I've ended up with a car that is worth less like for like than the out going model. This time when asked I'll inform the customers of my findings. I'll just tell it as it is.

And that might be played out by other cheesed off hybrid owners. Friends are always quick to ask questions about the Prius and we always sold the positives, but now a few years on many of us have egg on our faces because of that.

Like others have said, there are plenty more fish in the sea. A nice shiney new BMW can now be had for the price of a Prius.

[Parts-King]

Where did it all go wrong with the Prius for you GC? You were always an advocate of the Prius?

Kingo

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Where did it all go wrong with the Prius for you GC? You were always an advocate of the Prius?

Kingo

When the trade in price offered was **** all. I always replaced my cars between two and three years old. I am aware they have higher than average miles but the amounts being offered a ridiculous - lower than trade in values for gen2's with same miles. We have access to the black book at work to compare and enable us to be armed (so to speak) when we go car hunting.

Maybe it's just the recession and car dealers just don't want 2nd hand cars that aren't perfect with 10k miles? Maybe they're trying it on to get the ultra best price they can because times are hard and the warranty is just a damn good excuse? But for the first time in nearly 10 years I'm left with a car I can't get rid of. I didn't even have this trouble with the old Peugeot 406 I had years ago and that had over 90k miles on it. "Those miles don't matter sir, everyone wants a diesel Peugeot - we can sell this on no problem". I thought the same would be true with a Prius - still has £0 road tax, still has access to London CC zone etc so must demand some value as could be sold in London, but no, the warranty issue has come back to bite me on the a**e. It's the hybrid warranty not the car warranty I'm refering to - it used to be 100k, then it wasn't and now it is.

Obviously people just don't want to take the chance on the one with 60k hybrid warranty. Maybe they are cynical and ask why it's low for just that year etc?

You're a Toyota dealer. What price for a gen3 with full Toyota history and 65k miles. Bodywork is good, inside is spotless apart from the material on the drivers door elbow rest - replace the panel and car is like new - no holes drilled.

Then give me a price for a 2009 gen2 with the same details.

[Parts-King]

Gen 2 7375 to 7925

Gen 3 9675 to 10100

My sales Manager reckons it makes no difference about the hybrid Battery warranty in terms of depreciation. Prices are as per CAP

Kingo

[Ancient Nerd]

At an insane price. I like to think of this as Toyota rubbing our noses in it.

I'm not talking about a full vehicle extended warranty, you could buy an extended warranty for the HV Battery

As I remember it, the cost of the warranty was nearly a quarter of the cost of a new Battery. For an extra 40,000 miles. I think insane is being quite restrained. To have it described as (IIRC) "subsidised" seems a little far-fetched.

Has anyone actually bought one of these warranties?

A pity that Toyota don't honour the terms on their price list. This will go to Trading Standards and Small Claims if necessary.

I have no idea what you mean by that

My dealer didn't until they tried to sort out the unholy mess that resulted when they tried to set the warranty up. Sadly, they are the ones to be hit, not Toyota GB.

Welcome to the world of a Toyota customer

I was talking about a non Toyota dealer giving GC a hit in the plums with a price to P/Ex, how is that Toyota's fault? ...........apart from the weasel warranty, too expensive, ripping people off etc etc, I dont need reminding about that again AN, you mention it in every post :D:

I was talking about getting a hit in the plums. This is what it feels to be a Toyota customer. It is a painful experience.

..........apart from the weasel warranty, too expensive, ripping people off etc etc, I dont need reminding about that again AN, you mention it in every post.

Sadly, I think Toyota do need reminding. And I think they will start being reminded in a few months ime when the weasel Warranties start running out. That is nearly a year of really bad PR on the way.

BTW, I'm not having a go at you, or any other dealers. It is only Toyota GB who don't seem to give a stuff about their customers.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

lol, that's more like it, and it's defo for 65k ex taxi (even if it is minters) with full service history? I had been quoted nearly £2,000 less than the gen2 figures you're quoting!

I'm wondering if they're quoting the gen2 figures either by mistake or maybe deliberately to get the best deal? But when I tried to argue my findings they didn't want to know. But that was with 3 dealers. Something's wrong somewhere.

[Ancient Nerd]

Gen 2 7375 to 7925 Gen 3 9675 to 10100 My sales Manager reckons it makes no difference about the hybrid battery warranty in terms of depreciation. Prices are as per CAP Kingo

Grumpy, if you want to sell your car, I suggest you hot foot it to Kingo's sales manager.

But he might just have a rethink by the time you arrive.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

lol, well I've got family in Wales and pass by (within a few miles) of the Lindop dealers on the way there. Maybe I should pop in? That would be interesting.

update

It would be interesting as I've just searched a valuation of my car online for the 1.8 2009- Prius and trade in value is £7,000 and £7,800 depending on condition. Below Mr Kings figures but still higher than the just short of £6,000 I had been quoted.

Still fantastic depreciation though, especially as I can't find one for sale on Autotrader for under £12,000 with the same miles.

[Ancient Nerd]

lol, well I've got family in Wales and pass by (within a few miles) of the Lindop dealers on the way there. Maybe I should pop in? That would be interesting.

I'll bet you that you don't get offered anything like the book price he's quoting.

But seriously, why not just keep the car and get an extended warranty. The car seems a whole lot more reliable than Toyota as a company, so it should still be good for taxi work or anything else.

I know it goes against the grain to stop the regular 2-3 year change, I've had five new cars over the last ten years. However, this time the hit is so bad, it makes sense to hang on until the first sign of trouble.

If there is any question about you not wanting to be seen with an older car, get a personal number plate. It doesn't matter what it is. Then the car is ageless!.

If the car lasts a couple of years and is still fit for purpose, you've had near zero depreciation. It may even go longer.

OK you may not get tax relief on it, but you will still be better off.

I now intend to hang on to mine until it becomes unreliable, so 6-7 years, 200k miles looks likely.

And from Toyota's point of view, it is one less new car sold and one less into the dealer sales.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

You might be right. I only get bored of them or tempted by something else. Maybe I'll keep it til it drops. It hardly gets used now.

The g/f will have paid her IQ off by October this year and is going to keep that until it drops.

Like you say though, Toyota are losing new sales and the supply of 2nd hand motors will be drying up.

[Seamaster73]

There will be a big hole in second hand Prius availability in due course due to the six month period when the tsunami affected deliveries. This may have a small effect on residuals?

[Glyyde]

my Prius is almost 3 years old (18.5k miles), don't think I will trade it with the way new Prius price is. And I do not think I can tolerate any fuel consumption below 50MPG for my travel.... Hopefully the Prius can last till at least 100k miles, with my usage, it might last another 10 years?