New Aygo Fire Speaker Wire

[autt86]

as people know the standard Speakers on the aygo isn't great, so i wanted to change them on my new aygo fire.

when i removed the speaker covers across the front window i found this.

installing a new set of 10mm Speakers should be no problem but just like to know which is + and -

also looks like i will have to cut into the wires, why are there 4 wires? shouldn't speaker wires just have 2?

any help would be great.

[rajivrattna]

I am sorry, I do not have the answers but I am tempted to ask a few of my own.

1. Is thia an original set up?

2. Is this just a tweeter (but then why 4 wires)?

3. Is this a tweeter and a whoofer (that would explain the 4 wires, and that would also mean that it has a frequency filter mounted some where else, where is it)? Could it have a separate amplifier that gives out two wires to the tweeter and the two to the whoofer.

4. The metal mounting bracket looks very original, so it must be an original set up. So where is the amplifier or the filter?

5. it is not a bog standard Aygo speaker. The standard one is a cheap paper speaker with a tiny magnet. This one looks far advanced , so why change it?

[autt86]

I am sorry, I do not have the answers but I am tempted to ask a few of my own.

1. Is thia an original set up?

2. Is this just a tweeter (but then why 4 wires)?

3. Is this a tweeter and a whoofer (that would explain the 4 wires, and that would also mean that it has a frequency filter mounted some where else, where is it)? Could it have a separate amplifier that gives out two wires to the tweeter and the two to the whoofer.

4. The metal mounting bracket looks very original, so it must be an original set up. So where is the amplifier or the filter?

5. it is not a bog standard Aygo speaker. The standard one is a cheap paper speaker with a tiny magnet. This one looks far advanced , so why change it?

yes this is a original set up on the new aygo 2012 fire. the metal bracket is also original with no mods.

the new aygos have Speakers on the front doors aswell as the ones on the window.

[MikeSh]

Are there Speakers in the back as well?

If so then these are probably just tweeters. But still why the four wires? - unless the x-over is in the base of the tweeter.

[autt86]

Are there speakers in the back as well?

If so then these are probably just tweeters. But still why the four wires? - unless the x-over is in the base of the tweeter.

no Speakers at the back just the front door. im confused

[rajivrattna]

According to the equipment list the Aygo Fire has no speaker or radio CD! just look at this list. Isn't that odd? The more I look at it, I get the feeling that this is just a tweeter that you have got there. The 2 wires in that set up are for the missing woofer. Find which two wires are for the woofer and put a coaxial speaker in that place.

http://media.toyota....UIPMENTLIST.pdf

[autt86]

According to the equipment list the Aygo Fire has no speaker or radio CD! just look at this list. Isn't that odd? The more I look at it, I get the feeling that this is just a tweeter that you have got there. The 2 wires in that set up are for the missing woofer. Find which two wires are for the woofer and put a coaxial speaker in that place. http://media.toyota....UIPMENTLIST.pdf

the fire does have a radio CD, as i can see the pink and purple wire seems to be for the Speakers as the door Speakers are the same colour, dont know what the brown and black wires are tho.

[rajivrattna]

Could it be a cheapish piezo tweeter that Toyota has used here? How about buying a good coaxial speaker and connecting it to the pink and purple wire as in the door speaker. That should work. The other two wires must be for the tweeters then, You could mount these very tweeters in the A pillar. You then have a 6-speaker system.

[autt86]

Could it be a cheapish piezo tweeter that Toyota has used here? How about buying a good coaxial speaker and connecting it to the pink and purple wire as in the door speaker. That should work. The other two wires must be for the tweeters then, You could mount these very tweeters in the A pillar. You then have a 6-speaker system.

just found out that the other wires is some how connected to the door Speakers.

i connected my new 10mm Speakers to the pink and purple wire and left the brown and black wire standing, when this is done the door Speakers don't work so the black and brown wire has somthing to do with the door speakers. i dont understand.

[MikeSh]

i connected my new 10mm speakers to the pink and purple wire and left the brown and black wire standing, when this is done the door speakers don't work so the black and brown wire has somthing to do with the door speakers. i dont understand.

With the original Speakers, etc, in place does the front/rear fader on the radio work? Ie, if you put it fully to rear do you lose all sound? That would make my theory in the last bit of post #4 look stronger.

[autt86]

i connected my new 10mm speakers to the pink and purple wire and left the brown and black wire standing, when this is done the door speakers don't work so the black and brown wire has somthing to do with the door speakers. i dont understand.

With the original Speakers, etc, in place does the front/rear fader on the radio work? Ie, if you put it fully to rear do you lose all sound? That would make my theory in the last bit of post #4 look stronger.

the aygo fire does not have rear Speakers . just front door ones.

[rajivrattna]

I suspect that the brown and black wire is the one that comes originally from the radio-cd/amplifier to your tweeters. It gives an offshoot (pink and purple wire) to the door Speakers. The next thing to do is to locate the x-over filter. Have you tried connecting your new Speakers to the brown and black wire and see if it works?

[autt86]

no, i will try that tomorrow and see if it works

[MikeSh]

the aygo fire does not have rear speakers . just front door ones.

Yes, I get that. What I was trying to establish is whether the 'windscreen' Speakers and door Speakers are both run off the same radio output, of if one is on the front and the other on the back. If they are both off the front then there is probably a crossover circuit which your changes may be falling foul of and causing the lack of sound from the doors.

[johnny01]

Sorry to bump this thread, but I am also investigating this weird set-up with a view to replacing the Speakers and CD player etc. Please feel free to add or correct me if anyone has further information :)

I've taken delivery of my Fire today and had a very quick mess about. The dashboard Speakers fitted are the same as in autt86's photographs and look and sound like tweeters to me. They have rear printing that states 4-ohms and 15W power. There appears to be nothing connected to the 'rear' fader of the OEM head unit, adjusting the fader from 'front' to 'rear' causes the sound to disappear, unlike my old T-Pot Yaris that had dashboard on the 'front' fader and front door Speakers on the 'rear'. When I took the OEM head unit out of the centre console, I found there are no connections from the wiring loom to the 'rear' fader channel of the head unit, let alone any wires.

Also, I found when I disconnect the 4-way connector from the 'tweeter' the door speakers stop working. This is highly odd because the 'tweeter' doesn't appear to have any obvious crossover elements built in to it, short of breaking it apart and having a look. The 4 wires may simply be connected in some kind of 'through' configuration on the tweeter to avoid the need to splice two wires together or connect two cables to a single connector. I'm going to have a further investigation tomorrow but I suspect there are two wires (+ and -) coming from the head unit to the tweeter, and these are simply connected to the other two wires on the tweeter and head off to the door speaker. The wires are bridged at the tweeter and the tweeter feed might have a simple capacitor high-pass filter buried somewhere within. Speculation I know, but I'm going to get to the bottom of it!

By the way, my old JBL 4" GTO 427 coaxials certainly do not fit in the dashboard... :(

[MikeSh]

The 4 wires may simply be connected in some kind of 'through' configuration on the tweeter to avoid the need to splice two wires together or connect two cables to a single connector. I'm going to have a further investigation tomorrow but I suspect there are two wires (+ and -) coming from the head unit to the tweeter, and these are simply connected to the other two wires on the tweeter and head off to the door speaker. The wires are bridged at the tweeter and the tweeter feed might have a simple capacitor high-pass filter buried somewhere within.

It's going to be something like this, but as the tweeter is only 4 Ohm there either has to be a crossover or the Speakers are in series (for 8 Ohms total, assuming the doors are also 4 Ohm). In parallel you'd get 2 Ohms which would be unusual; I believe car audio is usually run with 4 Ohm speaker systems.

[johnny01]

Yes, you are right that most head units are rated at 4 Ohms minimum impedence, and also that there needs to be a crossover somewhere if only to protect the tweeter from low frequency energy which it has no way of dealing with. A simple inline capacitor will suffice. The Speakers can't be in series because the crossover will affect the frequency response of both Speakers. Wiring a 4 Ohm tweeter in parallel with a 4 Ohm bass driver (or even a full range speaker) doesn't normally present too many problems because the overall system impedance will be 4 Ohms. The tweeter only 'looks like' low impedance to an amplifier at high frequencies, and the impedence of a bass or full range driver increases with high frequencies, thereby at any particular frequency only one of the two Speakers is presenting the correct impedence to the amplifier in the head unit.

Other factors such as resistance in the length of wires, connectors, manufacturing tolerances and modern amlifier designs, coupled with a speaker's rated impedance of 4 Ohms being the minimum value (even if it's only at a single frequency) make the average impedance of a 4 Ohm speaker anything up to 8 Ohms! Probably why JBL have their 2 Ohm rated (true 4 Ohms according to them) speakers on the market, which I have fitted to all the vehicles I have had for the last few years and never had a problem with head units or amplifiers. Their thinking is probably that by taking into account wire resistance etc then on average the speaker will 'look like' 4 Ohms to the head unit. Works for me :)

Incidently, the pink and purple wire appearing at the tweeter are the two wires that emanate from the rear of the head unit (pink is front fader left + and purple front fader left -). The black and brown wires don't appear at the rear of the head unit and therefore must supply the door speaker from a junction at the tweeter. I haven't had the door panel off yet to look but I might take the tweeter out tomorrow to investigate it further :)

[irongrill]

So the story so far seems to be

• The 2012 - 2014 aygo, 107, C1 have a component speaker, with tweeter in dash and bass in door.
• Only the front fader is connected to this component speaker.There is no connection to the rear fader on the head
• The Tweeter unit is connected in series with the door speaker, hence disconnecting the tweeter unit causes the door unit to stop working
• Pink and purple cables come from head to tweeter, black and brown cables go from Tweeter unit to Door speaker.
• Although the 'tweeter unit' is connected in series, it is most likely the tweeter speaker itself is connected in parallel using a crossover built into the tweeter unit.

I have some questions;

1. Has anyone tried upgrading the std Speakers with upgraded compnent Speakers using standard head? If so was there much improvement, ie how good are the standard Speakers.
2. Has anyone tried replacing the standard speakers with full range cone speakers. This would give 4 speakers, each pair being wired in series giving an imepedance of 8ohms (approx) reducing total power but increasing sensitiivity. What were the results?
3. Finally has anyone tried replacing all 4 speakers with full range speakers, but run the black and brown cables from the door speakers to the rear fader on the back of the head unit, this should double power output, and increase volue (depending on sensitivity (3db sensitivity is equal to roughly a doubling of power.

I am contemplating which of the above options to try, and would love to hear of anyone else's experiences.

thanks

Ivan

[DaveNT]

Can't answer any of your questions directly but I'm currently using the standard Speakers with a Kenwood KDC-BT73DAB. This gives plenty of options to tailor the sound to the car and it sounds much better than with the original head unit. The standard Speakers can certainly take a lot more abuse than the standard head unit can give them.

I think the best option is to add an under seat sub-woofer as it's the bass that's most lacking. If you do try anything with the Speakers post back and let us all know how you got on

[unclefester]

Just to add to this ... I'm about to upgrade the audio in mine and will be removing the stock Speakers, door and dash and leaving the existing wiring in place and running my own. I'll fit a new HU and splice into the ISO converter lead to connect to the new wires .... means i can return it easily to standard should i need to.

http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/speakers/component-systems/6-5-inch-comp-17cm/pioneer-ts-g173ci-16-5cm-280w-components for the Speakers - 46mm mounting depth.

http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/install-adaptors/toyota/aygo/connects-2-ct25ty05-toyota-aygo-2005-front-door-165mm-speaker-adaptors to mount the Speakers on - should give me a few mm more clearance behind the speakers.

C1 Double Din adapter plate is £33 and the Aygo one is £65 .... Hmmm which will we be using I wonder

Just need to go and choose a half decent DoubleDin unit now.

Probably looking at http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/head-units/double-din/sony-xav-602bt-6-1-double-din-dvd-usb-screen-bluetooth over the Pionneer SPH-DA120 as the Sony has a removable face panel.

edit>

Having had the door panels off and seen the way they are held on .... some sticking foam to stop the plastic grommet clips from rattling and a foam lined strip around where the door card touches the doorskin near the speaker and things sound massively better now that the only thing moving is the speaker.

Same goes for the rear panels too - had those off and put foam around all the contact points - hey presto .. a relatively quiet car.

Pennypinching.

[eygo]

this maybe of interest to you

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/137269-2012-aygo-fire-speaker-question/

[unclefester]

Ta - i'd read that ... and i know how to splice off the wires, that's no issue. My main problem has been deciding whether or not it's worth doing at all.

Having sorted out the rattling door cards and the rattling rear plastics, i can get up to Volume 26 on the OEM HU and Speakers with bass on +3 with zero distortion ... at which point it's fully audible even whilst thrashing the nuts out of the engine.

That for me, at least for now is problem solved.