One For The Technical Minded

[CharlieFarlie]

I took My car in for an MOT today which it passed..

Turns out the MOT tester is member of the Gym I use and is the owner of the garage... So I told Him the full story and history of the car..... IE it putting out coolant and its burning of oil...

He said to leave the car and He would do some in depth tests and see what is going on..

Stuart has a garage FULL of Snap on diagnostic equipment and those huge computer jobies..

So.. Emissions for the MOT.

Car failed to register on the emissions machine. This happens very rarely indeed and the test has to be done twice just to make sure.. So emissions are as low as it can possibly be...

Stuart says if oil was being burnt He would expect some emissions to register though likely not enough to fail a car...

He then put a thing onto the header tank which He is positively adamant would show any gasses in the coolant.. Again this was a fancy Snap on tool.. His conclusion is that there is absolutely no possibility that there is anything wrong with the head or gasket...

H did various tests and commented on how well the engine sounds and runs. He assures Me that at present there is no indication in any way shape or fashion anything wrong with the car.. He drove the car to see if He could see any smoke or anything exiting the exhaust. Again nothing...

Cost for all this ??£45 for the MOT...

So what is going on with this car ? I asked Him to try and find a fault so if I were to go to Toyota I would have something concrete to show them.....

[Hoovie]

Is it not the purpose of the D-CAT system to get rid of the various emissions so the emissions test confirms that the D-CAT is doing its job very well more then confirming events before the D-CAT as it were? so burning oil would get converted by this system? Dunno, just hypothesizing? (When you look at the info in the brochure, the ppm for the various emissions in the D-CAT equipped car are minuscule compared to the standard RAV4 - shame Road Tax is only based on Co2 :( ).

The guy does sound like someone who is genuinely interested in motors and mechanics rather then the pile 'em high approach too often seen nowadays.

His conclusion must be both a relief and bemusement for you!

[CharlieFarlie]

Is it not the purpose of the D-CAT system to get rid of the various emissions so the emissions test confirms that the D-CAT is doing its job very well more then confirming events before the D-CAT as it were? so burning oil would get converted by this system? Dunno, just hypothesizing? (When you look at the info in the brochure, the ppm for the various emissions in the D-CAT equipped car are minuscule compared to the standard RAV4 - shame Road Tax is only based on Co2 :( ).

The guy does sound like someone who is genuinely interested in motors and mechanics rather then the pile 'em high approach too often seen nowadays.

His conclusion must be both a relief and bemusement for you!

Err well yes and no David.. If the burnt oil is staying within the filters then no.... At least it seems the expulsion of coolant is not due to any present gasket problems.. His tool actually analyses the coolant and tells if any gasses or whatever that should not be there are present...

Bemused ?? Well certainly confused that's for sure !

Its a wee local Garage that I did not even know was there... !Removed! well equipped and He is a Jaguar enthusiast as well !!

He could have billed for the time spent testing but seemed to more keen to get to the bottom of the problem...

Case of wine in order I think !

[Manxrav]

Nice to get an unbiased opnion on your problem. Hope you do get it sorted Charlie, once and for all.At least you can sell it on (Hopefully) with a certain peace of mind.

Regards Clare

[Big Kev]

....or give it juuuuuust WAN MERR CHANCE, MATE.....?

Name and Nether Regions Witheld.......

[CharlieFarlie]

....or give it juuuuuust WAN MERR CHANCE, MATE.....?

Name and Nether Regions Witheld.......

I was feeling happier till I read Hoovies explanation above,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I think maybe I understand that explanation more clearly now than Stuarts one...

Keeping up with a guy who knows what He is on about is hard sometimes... That is after all why I asked the question and appreciate Davids way of putting it even if its not what I wanted to hear...

Ah well at least the booger passed the MOT test and the head gasket tests fine for now at least....

[Hoovie]

Charlie, bear in mind I am not mechanically minded and just proferred a possibility and could be totally wrong (and usually am!)

On the other hand, once someone/anyone loses faith with a car, it can be very hard to ever see it in the same way no matter what is done to resolve any issues :(

[local hero]

Charlie i hate to say this but i have trouble checking my oil, on my cab i have a yellow plastic bit in the end of the dipstick which clearly shows the oil, on my rav one side of the dipstick shows its full the other side shows it needs oil, the dipstick is so shiny i think the oil runs off as you pull it out, i have roughed my dipstick up a bit with emery paper so i get a clearer reading..... is this just me ???? :unsure:

[CharlieFarlie]

David I believe what You said makes sense.. It is I think what the Mechanic was trying to say but He said it in a far more complicated way.....

Stew.. I have done the emery thing to the dipstick so it is a little easier to read...

Developments south of the border mean its likely I will be travelling south in the next day or so .. This means I can carefully watch the oil on the stick as I have to go over to the west of Liverpool en route so will do near 500 miles in one day.......

[anchorman]

As Dave says the D-CAT system is working. The T180 with that system actually meets Euro 5 and with the DPNR it is virtually fresh air coming out the exhaust. Sometimes engines take a bit of settling after installation and they do get air in the coolant. It sometimes results in effectively what is a big belch and the air comes out with such force it brings half a litre of coolant with it - especially if you have had the heater on cooler temps then switch it to warm - the air gets jettisoned out of the heater. As for the oil? Well it may use a bit but they are a pig to read unless they have stood for ages.

It would all happen to you when your confidence has been knocked for six wouldn't it. See how this big trip goes.

[shcm]

i have roughed my dipstick up a bit with emery paper so i get a clearer reading..... is this just me ???? :unsure:

Opps, quoting out of context can sometimes completely change the meaning, but no, it's not just you.

As for the oil? Well it may use a bit but they are a pig to read unless they have stood for ages.

This will sound s bit silly, but, yes, I've found left for a few hours with the block still warm and the reading will still be high on the stick - unlike any other engine I've had, where after that time, the reading will be believable.

Leaving until the block has gone cold (24hrs/over night) and it will drop to something normal, but leave for several days and it will be slightly higher (not unreasonable)

[DjRav]

I suppose the trick there is to always read the oil level under the same conditions.

Easiest one is- first thing in the morning when it's been stood on flat ground all night.

Dave

[CharlieFarlie]

Surely minimal variations in ant engine like the exact position the car is parked in. The length of time its been stood, The given ambient temperature as oil expands with heat could all have an input to a slight variation ?

I check the car in the same position on the drive, I checked after it had need stood for a while and went back in the evening five hours later to check it again cos Jedi said something that made Me think .................... Something about removing the oil filler cap in case of a vacuum ..

So I went down and took some measurements andposted the findings below.

Quote

Just been down to the garage and checked it again.. With the filler cap removed...

Right,, Between the top and bottom marks on the dipstick it measure

1 3/8 inches ...

Or 37mm

The oil level is sat at

3/8 on an inch or 10mm above the bottom mark..

Last check on oil was just under 800 miles ago at which point it was 5 mm above the maximum mark

I topped up the coolant tank with clean water. But have not topped up the oil as I have only Castrol GTX Magnatec fully synth here...

Car has been stood since 1.30 today and is sat perfectly level.....

Unquote.

The above is IMHO not minimal variations.. How I wish they were !!

[shcm]

I suppose the trick there is to always read the oil level under the same conditions.

Exactly.

Surely minimal variations in ant engine like the exact position the car is parked in. The length of time its been stood, The given ambient temperature as oil expands with heat could all have an input to a slight variation ?

Yes, all possibilities. I wasn't trying to provide an explanation, just giving an observation.

The 5mm above maximum mark you quote is typical of the the engine having stood for several hours, but still warm. When new, they can look like they've been overfilled in the factory, when in fact they are fine.

Well, it's something I've not really encountered before. I'm used to the indicated level being the same cold, as when stood for an hour after use, but maybe I've just not sampled enough different types of engine.

Yes, your figures do sound excessive.

Of course the oil also has a tendency to smear up the stick when warm, but you can usually see where the underlying level is. However, I don't need to tell you that either.

[Hoovie]

Just a personal observation on checking oil levels to add to the general discombobulation of the situation ...

I checked my oil level a little while ago for the first time (!) - would be about 2000 miles since the service IIRC. The level was about 2/3rds up between the min and max markings. I always do three readings to make sure the stick is going in consistently. So I needed to top up about 600mL apparently.

However, After I bought some oil and was about to add, I checked again, and it was DEAD ON on the max mark - so didn;t add anything.

And now everytime I check (3 readings each time again), it is always dead on the max mark. (and all checks, including the low one, were carried out mid morning with car not used that day, and parked in the position and place give or take about 6 inches).

So I guess my point is the dipstick reading seems to be able to have variable readings even when the actual oil quantity doesn't change. Makes no sense to me have to say, but I am pleased the 'standard' reading I get is the good one.

[acetip]

If you mark the handle of the dipstick on one side with a small dab of paint then you will always dip the oil with the stck the same way around.

Reversing the stick can make a difference in the reading on some engines.

[jedi134]

A very good point, one side of my dip stick reads different from the other, I always make sure (on a 4.2) that I always read the side with the pimples on, as the other will read different

[CharlieFarlie]

Errrr. If these engines run so clean how is it we have to pay such a high rate of VED ???????????????????

[s m smith]

GOVERNMENT

[Hoovie]

Errrr. If these engines run so clean how is it we have to pay such a high rate of VED ???????????????????

It is a con, isn't it! Guess you have to tell yourself you are being a good world citizen regardless!

[CharlieFarlie]

GOVERNMENT

Mate I know where the money goes I'm curious why the VED rate is so high accepting that its based on how much crap does or in this case doesn't come out of the exhaust ????

[CharlieFarlie]

GOVERNMENT

Mate I know where the money goes I'm curious why the VED rate is so high accepting that its based on how much crap does or in this case doesn't come out of the exhaust ????

Errrr. If these engines run so clean how is it we have to pay such a high rate of VED ???????????????????

It is a con, isn't it! Guess you have to tell yourself you are being a good world citizen regardless!

I tell Meself that every day !!! Then again maybe not .....................................

[BeechCustom]

Errrr. If these engines run so clean how is it we have to pay such a high rate of VED ???????????????????

Another great reason to drive a pre-April 2001 registered Rav4.2 :-)

[CharlieFarlie]

Errrr. If these engines run so clean how is it we have to pay such a high rate of VED ???????????????????

Another great reason to drive a pre-April 2001 registered Rav4.2 :-)

Good point !! I would have a fair bet that car would send out more into the atmosphere than The T180 though.. Bear in mind My car did not even register a reading on the emissions machine ........

[CharlieFarlie]

If you mark the handle of the dipstick on one side with a small dab of paint then you will always dip the oil with the stck the same way around.

Reversing the stick can make a difference in the reading on some engines.

I would not put a dab of paint on the dipstick.. It could come off and end up in an oil gallery.. Years ago I was advised to never wipe an automatic transmission dipstick with a cloth that had cotton fibres on it in case they got into the transmission..

When I wipe a dipstick of any type I do it with a clean cloth to remove the oil / Trans fluid then wipe it between My fingertips to make sure its absolutely free of ant fibres... Old habits die hard. I've been doing it that way for years !!