Vw Vs Rav

[webleymk3]

Right. this is a tad controversial however this being an open and happy forum where no-one takes a-fence I thought i would share my observations....

Just handed back the keys of my late mother's brand new VW golf to my dad, hopped back into Rav and drove home... so thought i'd share my immediate thoughts....

First to note, it was an automatic and is obviously a smaller car however...

It is the TDi(red i) which i think is the 1.6 Diesel. Engine was unbelievably quieter than the 2AD engine. Acceleration was significantly better than the Rav especially when cold. in fact i couldn't feel the difference between when the engine was cold and when it was warm - it has to be said, it was quite superb...

The DSG automatic gearbox was very smooth and although my Rav is manual there was none of the rough 1st to 2nd crunching we all seem to tolerate.

Inside, the stereo had the screen of a GPS but without the GPS functionality. The Rav interface is easily more superior i think. I just could not get my head around the radio settings. there were presets here and presets there, the DAB kept losing stations. i can only assume i was using it wrong...

The best bit, and it has to be said Toyota really ought to address this, was the interface screen on the dashboard between the speedometer and the rev-counter. This was controllable from the steering wheel and gave you site of current audio status, avg speed/fuel consumption etc amongst other useful bits of information. the highlight however was the phone connectivity. Not only did it connect to my phone, it connected directly to my address book from which i could then dial a number from the address book using the controls on the steering wheel (whilst driving - so annoying in the Rav how it greys everything out once you start to move). It was not overly distracting either. I always had an eye on the road as the display is directly in front of you... utter brilliance in design..

Having owned an Auris where the controls for the Opti-dial whatsits are on the other side of the steering wheel, the interface in the VW is just superb. We might be in the market for a second hand car soon and i know which car I will be looking at first!!

Don't get me wrong, i absolutely love the Rav and would not want to change it. I just think Toyota have some work to do to bring the usability of certain aspects of their cars up to current standards.

Sorry! Please don't ban me or start ignoring me, or send me hate mail etc. etc.!!!

Comments

Weblers

[jedi134]

The MFD (multi Functional Display) is common on all the Vag range, Audi Skoda, VW, Seat,.........and ive always said VW diesel engines just purrrrr no vibration in the cabin either....

Now I vill be shot!!!!!!!!!!!

[CharlieFarlie]

The Rav is Mate after all a near 6 year old design.. It is IMHO simply long overdue a complete new model..

There is now way it can compare to a brand new car as its design is out of date... That said its still a cracking car and a very capable one at that !!

IMO what the new model needs is..

The option to choose the following from the spec sheet.

A twin clutch Auto transmission Or a six speed manual with an improved gear change.

The capacity to carry a spare wheel like on the slightly older XT models/

You knew I was going to say this but full leather and a sunroof or panoramic roof should also return to the spec sheet..

A more up to date more fuel efficient engine. One that has more power as well as 150 BHP no longer cuts the mustard.

I honestly believe that many buyers loyal to the brand are going elsewhere.. 6 years and counting is a long time for a model to be in production with only very slight face lifts along the way..........

The power to weight ratio combined with the brilliant DSG box will make the Rav feel slow and dated but in fairness they are two completely different vehicle types....

[benxt5]

The screen doesn't grey out at all if you have an E11 or later DVD. I updated a few months ago and it is worlds better for using the nav, phone, folder navigation for mp3 etc...

A few years (and cars ago) I had a 52reg passat tdi 130, mapped up to 170bhp.

Even mapped, it was much quieter and smoother than the rav, and returned 50mpg. That was built 10 years ago so design age has little to do with it.

The Rav is just agricultural in comparison. I does make up.for it elsewhere in terms of practicality.

[webleymk3]

Charlie. My point was not so much regarding the engine, it was more to do with the interface that my Rav seems to have so wrong. Interested to hear the update resolves some of these. Where does one get an E11 update from?

[CharlieFarlie]

Charlie. My point was not so much regarding the engine, it was more to do with the interface that my Rav seems to have so wrong. Interested to hear the update resolves some of these. Where does one get an E11 update from?

Sorry Mate it was Your words about the quiet engine and smooth box verses the crunchy box in the rav that threw Me !!

[Hoovie]

I understand the manual box on the later RAVs are much better, and the auto has seamless changes, so comparing like ages of vehicles may give a better comparison?

The controls for the Sat/Nav/Head Unit on a Toyota (inc the RAV) of the same age as that Golf are not greyed out when moving. Maybe there was some legal restriction in place a few years go for that, as that kind of thing was common place?

I must admit that as a passenger in a brand new golf about a month ago, I didn't really enjoy the experience that much at all. Felt very low down. I did find all the little storage consoles along the central roof line very amusing :)

[Gods_gift]

DSG gearboxes are a nightmare when they go wrong, most VW owners then opt to fit a manual box because they are so expensive to fix. Not sure why they were even invented or put into production because there is simply so !Removed! complicated. A good example of an auto box is the Honda one they also do a clutchless box although I think thats only in bikes at the moment.

[benxt5]

Charlie. My point was not so much regarding the engine, it was more to do with the interface that my Rav seems to have so wrong. Interested to hear the update resolves some of these. Where does one get an E11 update from?

I bought an E11 (2008-2009) set of DVDs off eBay a few months ago. The full sets of 4 are not that common but a few pop up now and again. It is usually the non UK discs that seem to be on there. I paid £40 for them. I think a bargain for the vast improvement in the usability of the user interface. Just keep an eye out for them. I would check at least twice a week or you may miss out on 3 and 5 day listings.

[Tony Barnsley]

One of the things that kicked my ***** into getting a new car was hiring a car to do a dash to Norwich (550 mile round trip). For 1 pound, when I got there I got an upgrade to a Golf 1.6 TDI Blue Motion. I loved that car, what astounded me was getting 68 to the gallon (motorway and fast A roads) . . . and 52 to the gallon on my usual runs at home. Ok so it was fully manual, but had a wonderful smooth change (I'm a driver, I just cannot contemplate an auto box), with decent acceleration, and compared to my old car a quiet cabin. OK I didn't mess with the Stereo, and phone connectivity mainly because when I'm driving I don't use the phone, but FM radio worked well . . . no in built sat nav either.

So move on a month or so, and I bought an '07 RAV, I need a car that I don't have to bend too much to get into, and the Golf didn't do that for me . . . The Touran was a good possibility, and they had a couple in the local dealership, but it was still a bit low, and they had nothing in my price range

I've always loved the Verso version of Toyota's driving the Avensis when it first came out (But it's just too damned big). The Corolla verso would always have been my ideal car, but that became the Verso and the dealer had a couple of those . . . but only the 2.2D and I had convinced myself I wanted to go smaller not wanting a big lumpy diesel for round town . . . which brought the Urban Cruiser into the frame . . . Nice car . . . good engines . . . No space . . . and the dealer only had a petrol one in, if I was going for an upmarket Yaris then I would want the diesel as it would pull the extra weight a bit better.

So why the RAV . . . it ticked all the boxes for me (Apart from fuel economy and the fact that it is a big lump of a diesel engine) OK the 5...27 Radio interface is a bit crap and I would have liked the In build Sat Nav Version, and one with USB input. The gear change that all you seem to moan about feels wonderful and positive to me, (I'm used to stirring porridge on the Daewoos fords, Landrovers and Vauxhalls that I've had in the past) Yes its 'Agricultural' (Actually the Tractors I've driven all have semi auto boxes and the gear change is so smooth it is incredible . . . but for 100 Grand you would expect that), but infinitely superior to Landrovers.

I think Charlie has it right tho' totally different vehicles for different purposes that makes it difficult to compare the two . . . For the moment I've made the right decision for me personally. The loss of a sunroof in the 4.3.5 is not something that I would miss, I've had them in the past and once the novelty has worn off never used them. I'd be happier with a full sized spare though.

[Guest]

The Rav's current interface as standard allows you to copy phonebooks, make/receive/reject calls through the steering wheel controls, the extra cost item is for the "go" (satnav) only.

[DjRav]

Driving comes first, all the gadgets shouldn't dictate what you choose. Likewise spare wheels etc. I don't have a spare, I've learnt to live with it. I don't have iPod "integration", so I just bought a plug in fm transmitter type, does the job.

But back to driving- I just love the feel that the Rav gives of total capability. Snow ice mud, bring them on. Corners like it's on rails, smooth as silk (including gear changes!) and feels like a limo to me.

(PS I drive a Landrover and vans all day so the Rav is ALWAYS a step up!)

If you drive luxury/quality "cars" like Jags BMWs and VWs then stepping in the Rav may feel slightly agricultural, but if you step out of a Landrover then it feels smooth and well built!

My tip is buy a Landrover so you can all appreciate your Rav more.

Dave

[Joylove]

The tech underlying Toyota is way behind the Europeans.

[flyboyprowler]

I think that Charlie has it right. My 2003 petrol RAV does all it says on the box, but as I am looking to upgrade to a new car here in Spain, the modern car is streets ahead of an old design. I have driven the latest RAV, the latest Qashqai, and the Skoda Yeti, and in terms of comfort, capability and technology, at a reasonable price, the Skoda is without doubt the best car. The RAV seems old in comparison, the Qashqui cramped to get in and "thumpy" on the road. I also want to try a VW Tiguan, but think that the price will be the stumbling block, although the first look shows a quality motor. The Toyota dealer says the new RAV due in early 2013 is a new model, hybrid, and I won't make the decision to buy until I have seen the car!

Is the DSG box that bad? I have heard a lot of good, and would be interested to hear of the failure rates if you know them. I would certainly choose this box over manual.

[Hoovie]

A Hybrid RAV4 sounds like a very interesting one and worth hanging on for :)

Talking Petrol or Diesel Hybrid did they say?

[Davrav]

A Hybrid RAV4 sounds like a very interesting one and worth hanging on for :)

Talking Petrol or Diesel Hybrid did they say?

Little snippet here:

http://www.newcarsfo...13-toyota-rav4/

Not sure if we've had this before.............................

Here's another interesting article that is very much 'on topic' with regard to Toyota vs VW...............

http://www.japantime...20120417n1.html

Quite a lot summed up by this quote:

"The real issue for Toyota is winning back customers," said Jonathon Poskitt, head of European sales forecasting at LMC Automotive in Oxford, England. "Toyota really needs to refocus on the requirements of what are sophisticated European customers that already have a great choice in new vehicles."

[webleymk3]

Charlie is totally right in terms of comparing the engine of a brand new car to my 5 year old one but I think it goes without saying that VAG diesel engine of 5 years ago was way smoother than the current 2AD engine. In terms of gear change, the rav's isn't super smooth but it is a big car and is built for torque. I'm no mechanic but surely there has to be some compromise in terms of smoothness to get a gear box to manage all that power? Am I not right in saying that 1st gear is supposed to be a low ratio compromise gear which would only add to the clunkiness?

I disagree that driving comes first however. If that was the case we would all buy the xt3. I wanted the gadgets and my main point was that the Golf does this soooo much better than the Rav. Age here is no excuse as this technology has been about for ages! Not being able to integrate into my address book is nonsense these days as much as it was 5 years ago and the MFD display is just superb design. Easy to keep your eyes on the road as it sits just below the windscreen.

The greying out is a serious irritation on the rav. I'm glad to hear it no longer happens on the updates. I will defo be looking out for one.

I appreciate these cars are built for different purposes and will feel very different. I'm just shocked that the largest car manufacturer in the world seems to have let it slip somewhat.

I really hope the new Rav is a mind blower... It needs to be I think.

That said... I LOVE MY RAV!!!!

[webleymk3]

Also. Sunroof is very important as it really brightens up the car. Spare wheel for me is a must. Run flats: no ta. Can of gunk: no ta.

[Hoovie]

I think whoever is expecting a spare wheel on the 2013 RAV4 is going to be disappointed. I would be AMAZED if there is one or even the hint of an option of one. Spares are dropping on all cars gradually, and even the diehards like the Suzuki GV have lost theirs.

Phone Integration? personally, It sounds like the integration on the Golf is actually bad - phoning and driving don't mix, so having a phone display in the dash where likely only the driver can see it? not a good move IMO. Look at a display set in the dash = not looking at the road just as much as looking at a display in the centre console (but at least a passenger could see theinfo in the centre console)

Sat Nav greying out - apparently a 'gentlemans agreement' from most Japanese makers to try and forestall and prevent legislation to make Sat Nav much more restrictive. Maybe Golf Drivers should thank Toyota, Mazda, Nissan, etc for this?

Sunroofs? Nah, maybe opened my Sunroof in the RAV4.2 about 10 times in 4 years, and as they get old, the fail and leak.

If you are talkiing about Panaromic Glass Roofs like on the Nissan Qashqai for example, then NOW YOU'RE TALKING!!

my current 2AD engine is very smooth - I cannot detect a single gear change al the way from 1 to 6 and back again ;)

[Manxrav]

I would think Pertrol/Hybrid, Ala Yaris/Auris/Prius type. Would hope it could be Diesel/hybrid but only the French seem to be persuing that format.

Regards Clare

[CharlieFarlie]

I think whoever is expecting a spare wheel on the 2013 RAV4 is going to be disappointed. I would be AMAZED if there is one or even the hint of an option of one. Spares are dropping on all cars gradually, and even the diehards like the Suzuki GV have lost theirs.

Phone Integration? personally, It sounds like the integration on the Golf is actually bad - phoning and driving don't mix, so having a phone display in the dash where likely only the driver can see it? not a good move IMO. Look at a display set in the dash = not looking at the road just as much as looking at a display in the centre console (but at least a passenger could see theinfo in the centre console)

Sat Nav greying out - apparently a 'gentlemans agreement' from most Japanese makers to try and forestall and prevent legislation to make Sat Nav much more restrictive. Maybe Golf Drivers should thank Toyota, Mazda, Nissan, etc for this?

Sunroofs? Nah, maybe opened my Sunroof in the RAV4.2 about 10 times in 4 years, and as they get old, the fail and leak.

If you are talkiing about Panaromic Glass Roofs like on the Nissan Qashqai for example, then NOW YOU'RE TALKING!!

my current 2AD engine is very smooth - I cannot detect a single gear change al the way from 1 to 6 and back again ;)

I simply will not buy another car that has no option and by that I mean the choice at least to pay extra for a spare wheel and somewhere to put it....

I don't often open the roof on My car but simply leave the blind back.. Without it the car is a dismal place to be partly down to the fact everything in the car is black.... When I do have it open its a treat so I want one and am prepared again to pay extra for the privilege.

Phone system on a modern car is essential in this day and age as a lot of folk would resort to using the phone without.. I see lots of this when travelling up and down the country..

I too prefer not to take calls on the move !! But when I was in business it was something I had to do.. I find no issues with the phone system in the Rav.. It has an auto answer facility that keeps it totally legal so no issues...

As for the greying out when on the move ?? !Removed! hell is it not irresponsible to mess with the nav when on the move ???

Many have complained about the lack of a spare wheel on the later and certain other Ravs... Toyota have the choice to listen as Webblers points out above or simply loose customers .... Hoovie insists He is happy with a repair kit... Sorry for Me or the Wife (In the event of Her driving once We get an automatic car ) its something I would quite simply refuse to rely on..

I have a Mate who recently bought a brand new Shogun.. 3.2 litre engine .. The ride quality is something a rav Owner can only dream of. It has a massive sunroof, Full leather. a spare wheel mounted on the rear door. More toys and kit than a Rav by miles. Returns 34MPG and has a super smooth auto box.. Toyota really need to up its game !!!

It cost £28700

[shcm]

Whether it be true, or whether it be rubbish, but I was once told by a powertrain design Engineer that the reason the same engine in a 4x4 felt a whole lot more unrefined than the same engine that was used in a 2WD car, was because of the various forces effectively transmitted to the engine mounts by the 4 wheel drive system.

Therefore the engine mounts in the 4x4 had to be a whole lot stiffer to cope than the ones used in the car and so a whole load more engine vibration and perceived harshness was transmitted to the vehicle body in the 4x4.

As always the devil is in the design detail. Easy to be critical, when you don't have the whole picture.

OK the RAV is not permanent 4WD, but comparing with a car setup, is perhaps a being a little bit over critical?

Maybe compare the RAV's engine with the same one installed in the car setup. That may be a little fairer perhaps? Of course comparing it with another 4x4 is reasonable.

Just my 2p worth

[CharlieFarlie]

Whether it be true, or whether it be rubbish, but I was once told by a powertrain design Engineer that the reason the same engine in a 4x4 felt a whole lot more unrefined than the same engine that was used in a 2WD car, was because of the various forces effectively transmitted to the engine mounts by the 4 wheel drive system.

Therefore the engine mounts in the 4x4 had to be a whole lot stiffer to cope than the ones used in the car and so a whole load more engine vibration and perceived harshness was transmitted to the vehicle body in the 4x4.

As always the devil is in the design detail. Easy to be critical, when you don't have the whole picture.

OK the RAV is not permanent 4WD, but comparing with a car setup, is perhaps a being a little bit over critical?

Maybe compare the RAV's engine with the same one installed in the car setup. That may be a little fairer perhaps? Of course comparing it with another 4x4 is reasonable.

Just my 2p worth

May be true but have You ever driven an Audi Q7 ??

Comparing a Rav and a Golf is not really a valid comparison. Though it seems Wibblers was on about the white goods not the house ...

[flyboyprowler]

A Hybrid RAV4 sounds like a very interesting one and worth hanging on for :)

Talking Petrol or Diesel Hybrid did they say?

No sadly not, but I assume it would have to be a totally new model, and the technology from Lexus is already there.

[shcm]

May be true but have You ever driven an Audi Q7 ??

Nope, but it's nice of the VW group to name it in honour of one of Spike Milligan's series and to be brutally honest, I'd have to be like Spike to be seen in one. i.e. deceased.

Couldn't afford one and probably couldn't put up with the just under 40mpg combined now.

Not the right power/economy comprimise for me, but each to his own