Ampera/pip Spotters Thread

[cootuk]

Would be interesting to see if anyone spots a Prius plugin or Ampera given their very high purchase costs.

There does seem to be a large poster campaign round my area for the Ampera.

Over the past few weeks I've seen a handful of brand new Honda Insights so there is an appeitite for hybrids, but at what cost?

[johalareewi]

I have spotted the Ampera posters too.

Might be difficult spotting a PIP. There aren't going to be that many for sale in the UK this year.

Have also been seeing Honda Insights recently which means there are a few more around.

[Hybrid Harbour]

Just come back from a quick 2 mile trip into the town center and counted 4 Auris Hybrids on the road, looks like my local dealer is doing alright.

[don21]

I think Vauxhall may be on to a winner with the Ampera. Fantastic MPG and no range anxiety. Saw official figures of something like 250mpg.

If the can make it reliable then the Prius could be in big trouble.

[don21]

I think Vauxhall may be on to a winner with the Ampera. Fantastic MPG and no range anxiety. Saw official figures of something like 250mpg.

If they can make it reliable then the Prius could be in big trouble.

[Hybrid Harbour]

The official government tests are pretty useless when it comes to Hybrid cars that can do over 30 miles on electric only.

The 235.4 MPG figure is fine but just wait until the real world figures come in. Remember that after you have used up your 25 - 50 mile range the petrol generator will be running all the time.

At just under 39k (before the government grant) for the decent model its not cheap either, but then cutting edge technology never is.

Edit: just found the Autocar road test and here is a short section from it... 33.4 miles electric range and 54.2mpg, so not that good in the real world then...

How, though, does it compare on fuel economy? As you would expect, it utterly, utterly depends on how frequently you make long journeys and how much access you have to electric chargers.

So let’s consider it in three parts: first, the Ampera’s electric-only range which, on a mixed route or normal driving, we found to be 33.4 miles.

Second: the economy assuming there is no recharging available at all. The engine works to drive the motor/generator and power the car, but the Battery also chips in after any stretch of decelerative regeneration, so you can expect 45mpg overall. Not sparkling by modern diesel standards, but not bad. And it banishes range anxiety.

Third, then, an overall figure, and this is where ours – unlike in any other car we’ve tested – might not necessarily represent a typical figure. We returned 54.2mpg over six days of testing, but we drove it far, we drove it often, and our testers did not always have the same access to recharging points as owners do. It is a given that, if you buy this car, you will have somewhere to charge it. It’s conceivable that you might own one for a year and never fill the tank with petrol.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

You don't think they chose a 50 mile EV range for nothing eh? :)

235 mpg is a nonsense figure. If the Euro test course was 60 miles (100 km hint hint - see above comment), then you do 50 miles or so on electric and 10 miles on that 1/8 of a litre of fuel. Bingo you have a car that does 235 mpg. If you drove it 51 miles you'd have a car that did 999mpg. But drive it 70 and it becomes 100 mpg and finally drive it 360 and you are probably down to about 80 mpg. Still sounds good but it all depends on your use patterns.

Never plug it in and I believe the mpg's are about 42 mpg.

So it's not quite 235mpg, rather it depends on your journey and how often you use EV.

[Hybrid Harbour]

Very surprised to find out that the total distance covered for the tests is just 6.8 miles.

How is the fuel consumption test conducted?

• 
  The test is outlined in Directive 93/116/EC as amended by Regulation (EC) 692/2008, and provides results that are more than representative of actual average on-road fuel consumption than previous tests. There are two parts: an urban and an extra-urban cycle. The cars tested have to be run-in and must have been driven for at least 1,800 miles (3,000 kilometres) before testing.
  
• 
  Urban Cycle
  The urban test cycle is carried out in a laboratory at an ambient temperature of 20oC to 30oC on a rolling road from a cold start, i.e. the engine has not run for several hours. The cycle consists of a series of accelerations, steady speeds, decelerating and idling. Maximum speed is 31mph (50km/h), average speed 12mph (19km/h) and the distance covered is 2.5 miles (4km).
  
• 
  Extra-Urban Cycle
  This cycle is conducted immediately following the urban cycle and consists of roughly half steady-speed driving and the remainder accelerations, decelerations, and some idling. Maximum speed is 75mph (120km/h), average speed is 39mph (63 km/h) and the distance covered is 4.3miles (7km).
  
• 
  Combined Fuel Consumption Figure
  The combined figure presented is for the urban and extra-urban cycle together. It is therefore an average of the two parts of the test, weighted by the distances covered in each part.
  

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Heck I'm surprised the Prius (non plug in) doesn't do better on those tests. Maybe that's how they get 70+ mpg in town - it's a 4 mile run with 2 of those almost on the electric.

The American tests are more real world and the Prius gets 50 mpg US which works out about 60 mpg UK. Now that's more achieveable in the real world.

[don21]

These so called tests then are utter nonsense.

How can they get away with these claims?

Basically it has to be plugged in to acheive these figures.

http://www.which.co.uk/news/2012/01/vauxhall-ampera-is-urban-fuel-champion-277055/

[timberwolf]

These so called tests then are utter nonsense.

How can they get away with these claims?

Basically it has to be plugged in to acheive these figures.

http://www.which.co....hampion-277055/

Isn't that the the point of plug-in cars? If you hadn't ever planned to plug it into the mains, you might as well have just bought a regular petrol or diesel car?

[johalareewi]

Isn't that the the point of plug-in cars? If you hadn't ever planned to plug it into the mains, you might as well have just bought a regular petrol or diesel car?

Makes sense. The extra you pay for a plug in will get you a lot of conventional fuel. The only way you can start to recover the extra paid is to use as much electricity as possible. The petrol/diesel engine is just there in case you run out of electricity.

[Jan&tone]

I think Vauxhall may be on to a winner with the Ampera. Fantastic MPG and no range anxiety. Saw official figures of something like 250mpg.

If the can make it reliable then the Prius could be in big trouble.

At 37k ?? I don't think so!

[cootuk]

I would imagine there will be a lot in Government departments where they can add it to their savings targets in CO2 emissions despite the hefty cost.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

My electric dream is slowly being extinguished. Funny how in California the Prius plug in is flying off the shelves, the Prius C (very similar to the European made Yaris hybrid) is something like the 3rd most sold car in America, yet here with their equivalent of $9 a gallon, hybrids still account for less than 2% of all sales and the Prius plug in is just a rich mans play thing.

We know the benefits or hybrids but they're still just an expensive niche product. It's ok Toyota saying they'll have a hybrid option on all their range, but at what price?

[kithmo]

We know the benefits or hybrids but they're still just an expensive niche product. It's ok Toyota saying they'll have a hybrid option on all their range, but at what price?

Let's hope they still have the conventional option across the range or they won't sell many cars

[r04drunner1]

How is the fuel consumption test conducted?

• The test is outlined in Directive 93/116/EC as amended by Regulation (EC) 692/2008, and provides results that are more than representative of actual average on-road fuel consumption than previous tests. <snip>
  
• 
  
• 
  

Fascinating - thanks for the post.

So how is the effect of aerodynamic drag factored in? Does the rolling road exist in a wind tunnel?

Otherwise MPG figures for low drag cars (the Coefficient of Drag multiplied by surface area i.e. C_dA) will not be representative, particularly on the Extra Urban test because it involves higher speeds and aerodynamic drag becomes more of a factor.

[Hybrid Harbour]

As far as I can tell they don't factor in any aerodynamic values.

As the Urban test average speed is 12mph and just 2.5 miles, and the Extra is 39mph average over 4.3 miles the effects of aerodynamic drag would be negligible.

Another fun fact in the test is that the vehicle can be stored at room temp (20 - 30C) for up to 30 hours before the test, this means that the engine oil and coolant will be pre heated before they even start the engine, which is why we struggle to get close to the official MPG figures in the winter months.