4.2 Advice Please

[norush]

Recently bought a 2004 XT3 and would appreciate some advice from you guru's! When the engine is cold, it's a nightmare to drive on a light throttle opening in say 2nd gear in heavy traffic and is just really jerky. Once warmed up things seem to be back to normal. Could this be an O2 sensor playing up or is it likely to be a TPS problem? I bought it privately so don't have the option of taking it back to the dealer to sort out!

TIA for any help.

[anchorman]

To start with, take the plugs out and make sure they are the proper Iridium type. They are expensive but if not fitted the car will give exactly the symptoms you describe.

[igormus]

Recently bought a 2004 XT3 and would appreciate some advice from you guru's! When the engine is cold, it's a nightmare to drive on a light throttle opening in say 2nd gear in heavy traffic and is just really jerky. Once warmed up things seem to be back to normal. Could this be an O2 sensor playing up or is it likely to be a TPS problem? I bought it privately so don't have the option of taking it back to the dealer to sort out!

TIA for any help.

hi

it is not a sensor in question but poor injection giving no diesel fog before ignition. and once each cylinder becomes warmer -- the final temp at compression is sufficient to evaporate diesel injected before TBC/spark

regards / igor

[norush]

Thanks for the suggestion anchorman,i'll take a look at the plugs. I have already changed all the transmission fluids thanks to your excellent tutorial!

[norush]

Thanks igormus, but mine's a petrol engine!

[igormus]

Thanks igormus, but mine's a petrol engine!

ok follow the way proposed by Anch

cheers

[norush]

Thanks igormus, but mine's a petrol engine!

ok follow the way proposed by Anch

cheers

I've ammended my profile igor!

[norush]

@ anchorman, as it's only done 56k would it not still be on the original plugs?

[crofter]

Take nothing for granted,Paul, on a new (to you) motor.

Follow anchs advice,he has the most annoying habit of always being right

Del

[norush]

Take nothing for granted,Paul, on a new (to you) motor.

Follow anchs advice,he has the most annoying habit of always being right

Del

I'll certainly check them as soon as I can; just remember reading something about them not needing to be changed until around 60k, so kind of assumed they're still the originals. I know, never assume anything

[IanXT4]

From my memory its actually 6 years or 60K miles. Don't forget everything ages, especially in the hostile environment of an engine.

[Oilkid]

Hi Paul

I have recently done a service on my RAV for similar to what your describing and poor fuel consumption. I changed the air cleaner, wee bit better. Changed the spark plugs(only 49k) on them and gap was still bang on 1.1mm. No real change on running. Took air filter of and cleaned air mass sensor with IPA, and also cleaned the throttle body with the same, a rag and bristle paint brush. And hey presto the car has went from 24mpg to 29-31mpg, you now have to just feather the throttle for the car to go(response alot sharper). The throttle was clean on the upperside but you could see where the butterfly may stick with the dirt/oil on the underside.

You can take the throttle body apart to clean properly but I'd recommend a new gasket for reassembly. If you use my method, keep the throttle open to allow the IPA to evaporate(will be a bit lumpy on start up if you don't). Clean the air mass wire with a cotton bud(an gently wipe it, no force).

This may help,worked for me anyway :D

Jason

[norush]

Hi Paul

I have recently done a service on my RAV for similar to what your describing and poor fuel consumption. I changed the air cleaner, wee bit better. Changed the spark plugs(only 49k) on them and gap was still bang on 1.1mm. No real change on running. Took air filter of and cleaned air mass sensor with IPA, and also cleaned the throttle body with the same, a rag and bristle paint brush. And hey presto the car has went from 24mpg to 29-31mpg, you now have to just feather the throttle for the car to go(response alot sharper). The throttle was clean on the upperside but you could see where the butterfly may stick with the dirt/oil on the underside.

You can take the throttle body apart to clean properly but I'd recommend a new gasket for reassembly. If you use my method, keep the throttle open to allow the IPA to evaporate(will be a bit lumpy on start up if you don't). Clean the air mass wire with a cotton bud(an gently wipe it, no force).

This may help,worked for me anyway :D

Jason

Thanks Jason, very informative; don't suppose you took any photos whilst you were doing the throttle body?! The guy I bought it from must have had a very light right foot as the digital consumption display was showing an average of 39.4mpg when I collected it, so fuel consumption is pretty good, although I suspect the readout on these is fairly optimistic and is now down to 34.5 with my heavy right foot after an Italian tune up Still not decided if this is going to be a keeper, so I'm hanging on to my trusty old CRV for the time being; bit of a hard act to follow!

[IanXT4]

Its well known fact that the MPG display on this generation of car is way out. I complained to Toyota a few months after I bought my car and was shown a printed note from Toyota stating that this was a "feature" not a fault !!!

If you do clean the throttle body be advised that as its a 2004 its probably drive by wire therefore a little bit more difficult to clean the edge of the butterfly valve. (I don't believe there is any way to open it when the engine is not running.)

Throttle body components.pdf

Throttle body removal.pdf

[Joylove]

There is a throttle body DIY in my sig for a cable throttle car. There is one for the O2 sensors where you can take a couple of measurements with your multimeter too. A 2004 should light the Check Engine lamp if there was a problem with the sensors.

Don't forget when you pull the Battery for more than a few minutes all the adaptations are cleared and it will run lumpy and sluggish with a high idle for the first 60-100 miles.

Also my petrol MPG meter is spot on. The diesels are less accurate.

[IanXT4]

Just a thought, if there is a problem with one of the two O2 sensors on a 2004, it will definitely throw a code and the engine light will illuminate. Sometimes dodgy sellers will remove or cover the engine light to mask having to fix expensive O2 sensors.

Check when the ignition comes on the yellow engine light illuminates and then goes out when the car starts. If you have a OBD2 code reader it would not hurt to check for any codes.

[norush]

Just found an invoice for the last service in November 2011; it was itemised and included new plugs @ £40. It was done at a small local inde which has an excellent reputation so I assume, wrongly or rightly, that they put the correct plugs in. Also the CEL goes out as normal when the engine is started so not a sensor problem. Appreciate all your comments by the way.

[anchorman]

£40 is a trade price if you are lucky. Just pop one out and check. They have a needle like electrode.

[norush]

£40 is a trade price if you are lucky. Just pop one out and check. They have a needle like electrode.

Tomorrow looks like being a dry day so will have a look; I have some electrical contact cleaner so will give the MAF a blast as well.

[Oilkid]

Paul , I never took any pics but it's straight forward to do. Unclip air cleaner box,take out filter. Undo bottom clip on to throttle body(bit awkward as you have to compress spring fully,good molegrips will do it) pull it up the way and pull pipe along with it from throttle body. Disconnect the small 1/4" pipe also connected to this. Disconnect throttle plug. Then undo the 3* 10mm bolts holding the lower air cleaner box/bracket on to top of engine and remove it. You now have access to clean throttle and replace/check plugs. As said eariler on a previous post, it is fly by wire so you have to hold the throttle body open, I used a rag stuck down one side to hold it open while i cleaned the other side, and vice versa. Used a long bristle brush and just sprayed the IPA on it, or carb cleaner to clean the internals.

Your trip comp on the dash comparing to mine indicates 7mpg over what your getting. 34.5mpg will be 27.5mpg. Best to check with brimming the tank. From a full tank to 3/4 I get 90mile then about 70mile per marker after that.(Around 300mile till petrol light comes on).

As suggested also you should really disconnect the Battery while doing any work on car.

The PDF that Ian has put up shows awhing just as clear as a pic.

Hope this helps

Jas

[IanXT4]

As said eariler on a previous post, it is fly by wire so you have to hold the throttle body open, I used a rag stuck down one side to hold it open while i cleaned the other side, and vice versa. Used a long bristle brush and just sprayed the IPA on it, or carb cleaner to clean the internals.

How easy (ie force required) was it to open the throttle butterfly manually, did it feel you were pushing just a spring or making gears turn inside. I had wrongly assumed that I would find that it was driven by a gear arrangement that would stop you opening it manually.

Was there any sign of a teflon non stick coating or was it just metal sides.

Many thanks

Ian

[Oilkid]

Hi Ian

There is a little bit of resistance,that's it. It feels like there is both(gearing and spring)? It returns to closed when you release it,must be a spring return and when you open it,it feels like your pushing against gearing.

I'd say 'no' to the teflon coating(casting of throttle body looked dull). I'd thought there would have been a sheen from it, if coated?

If it's something your thinking about doing, get as small a toothbrush as poss to get in to the area at the spindle shaft(a wee kids toothbrush springs to mind). I used a wee 1/2" brush,cleaned all the underside first, then cut the bristles to stiffen them up to do the spindle

Hope this helps

Jas

[norush]

Just a quick update chaps; whipped out one of the plugs and it's an NGK IFR6T11 and is definitely new. Incidentally,there seems to be a huge variation in price with these NGK Iridium plugs; I can get a set of 4 delivered to my door for less than £30 and that's from a motor factors in the UK, not China! So what gives? If I was cynical I'd say we poor motorists are being fleeced

[IanXT4]

Hi Ian

There is a little bit of resistance,that's it. It feels like there is both(gearing and spring)? It returns to closed when you release it,must be a spring return and when you open it,it feels like your pushing against gearing.

I'd say 'no' to the teflon coating(casting of throttle body looked dull). I'd thought there would have been a sheen from it, if coated?

If it's something your thinking about doing, get as small a toothbrush as poss to get in to the area at the spindle shaft(a wee kids toothbrush springs to mind). I used a wee 1/2" brush,cleaned all the underside first, then cut the bristles to stiffen them up to do the spindle

Hope this helps

Jas

Many thanks, this job is next on the list followed by finishing the cruise install when my switch arm arrives from Taiwan.