Newbie Rav Tyre/wheel Question...

[mrcamel]

Hiya,

I have just bought an 09 XTR D4D and am thinking already about upgrades... (leather seat recover anyone??)

More immediatley though I plan to get a spare wheel and tyre for long trips/Europe etc. My local Toyota quoted nearly £600 for a matching 6 spoke alloy as a spare with Yokohama tyre. I can't seem to find anyone selling suitable steel wheels (is it true as the handbook says that it is essential to run the same brand/size/pattern if using a spare?) so have resorted to eBay... I assume there won't be a problem running a five spoke alloy so long as it's the same size (225/65R17)? I also thought about getting a spare set with winter tyres and using one as a spare, but again not sure as the tread pattern would be different.

Thanks in advance

[Davrav]

Hello Ollie and welcome to the club

You will find quite a few threads about wheels and tyres for the RAV but at least you don't need to read the ones about runflats and the associated issues so that's a good start.

So long as the spare is the same size as the original it doesn't matter how many spokes it has. I ran around with an odd pattern wheel as a spare for about two years before I was lucky enough to find a full spare set. I now just keep one of the opposing set in the car [still a different pattern but also from a 4.3 RAV]

If you want to run winter tyres that's probably the way to go too. Not sure about running a winter tyre as a spare as grip and braking characteristics would be different. Charlie Farlie sourced some aftermarket wheels of same pattern as his originals at a considerably cheaper rate than MrT. Can't remember where from though.......

There is a full size steel spare available from MrT for about £100 - worth contacting our Pie Parts man, Kingo, to see if he could do you a discounted price.

These wheels do pop up on e-bay fairly regularly. I believe a certain Scots member may also have one in stock - he seems to collect them ;)

Hope that helps.

[Big Kev]

....but your XT4 would end up with a terrible limp.....mine are 18" wheels...!!!!!

Big Kev

[Davrav]

....but your XT4 would end up with a terrible limp.....mine are 18" wheels...!!!!!

Big Kev

That would make for interesting handling........................

[mrcamel]

thanks guys.

I assume there is a formula for sizing, so it would be possible torun 16" or 18" wheels as long as the tyre size is adjusted accordingly?

[roger_37]

thanks guys.

I assume there is a formula for sizing, so it would be possible torun 16" or 18" wheels as long as the tyre size is adjusted accordingly?

http://www.miata.net...irecalc.html :D this is what i use

[Hoovie]

First decision is to decide if you want to get winter wheels/tyres or not.

If so, then IMO, it would be daft to get ANOTHER wheel as a spare instead of using the winter wheel as a spare in summer and vice-Versa in winter (this is what I do)

The likelyhood of needing the spare is pretty remote in reality, and even if you do need to, it would likely only be for a short time.

As far as matching tread patterns, wheel size, etc, just think about all the space-savers in use! The main thing is the rolling diameter should be the same on the same axle, and - I think I am right saying this ..... - as the RAV4.3 is only part-time 4WD, matching from and rear is much less critical then on permanent 4WD cars such as the earlier RAV4.2

[anchorman]

Don't forget Hoovie that your RAV is in 4WD EVERY time you set off.

[Hoovie]

Don't forget Hoovie that your RAV is in 4WD EVERY time you set off.

I didnt know that in fact. How long for though? Any significant length of time or just enough as part of the initial test sequence?

[Guest]

If I remember correctly (which means Don will correct me) it backs off progressively as you head towards 30MPH

Gus

[anchorman]

There is a good chance it could be backed off by the time you get to 30 but it depends on engine load - you could have it come in at 70 if you floored the throttle. Think of it as being operated by your throttle pedal. The harder you press the longer it stays in 4WD and then it will back off steplessly as the speed and the load (throttle position) reduces. And yes, it does it all the time without you being aware of it. It is down to a little multi-plate clutch which sits on the front of the rear axle which is operated by a little plunger working ball bearings up a helix. The litlle plunger is going like a fidlers elbow as you change through gears and sits back when you are cruising/coasting. The VSC can call upon it to either kick in or disconnect depending on what kind of "situation" it is dealing with. Most 4.3 owners are completely oblivious to the antics of this very clever device but it makes the RAV very special. The same system is on the diesel UC.

The amazing thing is that this tiny clutch assembly has proved utterly reliable. I don't know if James has heard of any going on any US high milers?

[Big Kev]

There is a good chance it could be backed off by the time you get to 30 but it depends on engine load - you could have it come in at 70 if you floored the throttle. Think of it as being operated by your throttle pedal. The harder you press the longer it stays in 4WD and then it will back off steplessly as the speed and the load (throttle position) reduces. And yes, it does it all the time without you being aware of it. It is down to a little multi-plate clutch which sits on the front of the rear axle which is operated by a little plunger working ball bearings up a helix. The litlle plunger is going like a fidlers elbow as you change through gears and sits back when you are cruising/coasting. The VSC can call upon it to either kick in or disconnect depending on what kind of "situation" it is dealing with. Most 4.3 owners are completely oblivious to the antics of this very clever device but it makes the RAV very special. The same system is on the diesel UC.

The amazing thing is that this tiny clutch assembly has proved utterly reliable. I don't know if James has heard of any going on any US high milers?

Kiss of death there, Anchorfulness...."has proved utterly reliable..." Will now go and order two aff Kingo......lol (not the David Cameron version.)

Big Kev

[anchorman]

There is a good chance it could be backed off by the time you get to 30 but it depends on engine load - you could have it come in at 70 if you floored the throttle. Think of it as being operated by your throttle pedal. The harder you press the longer it stays in 4WD and then it will back off steplessly as the speed and the load (throttle position) reduces. And yes, it does it all the time without you being aware of it. It is down to a little multi-plate clutch which sits on the front of the rear axle which is operated by a little plunger working ball bearings up a helix. The litlle plunger is going like a fidlers elbow as you change through gears and sits back when you are cruising/coasting. The VSC can call upon it to either kick in or disconnect depending on what kind of "situation" it is dealing with. Most 4.3 owners are completely oblivious to the antics of this very clever device but it makes the RAV very special. The same system is on the diesel UC.

The amazing thing is that this tiny clutch assembly has proved utterly reliable. I don't know if James has heard of any going on any US high milers?

Kiss of death there, Anchorfulness...."has proved utterly reliable..." Will now go and order two aff Kingo......lol (not the David Cameron version.)

Big Kev

It did cross my mind but when you think what they do they are amazing. Anyone who has changed the oil in the rear diff will notice it is absolutely filthy which is the wear debris off the discs. Not servicing the vehicle properly would lead to a build up of said crud so 2 years or 20k would be the absolute max in my opinion. Due to my annual mileage mine gets done about half that and it is bad enough.

[junebug1701]

The amazing thing is that this tiny clutch assembly has proved utterly reliable. I don't know if James has heard of any going on any US high milers?

Same here, Anchs, the electric clutch seems to work well even on high mileage vehicles. I can't remember hearing of any failures yet.

One of our members on RAV4World.com (Dr. Dyno) has fitted an LED onto the 4WD controller so he can see when the clutch is engaged. Here are some quotes from him:

BTW' date=' while working on a Lock mode mod that won't shut off at 25 mph for 45 mph dirt roads in Alaska, I've connected a meter and a LED to the 4WD module's output wire (white) that goes to the rear variable clutch. During a hard V6 launch I saw 9 volts (3 Amps) but just for a few seconds. Interestingly, whether the LOCKED button is set or not doesn't change the voltage. In fact the LOCKED button doesn't appear to do much more than send a few volts out, but even that goes off and on below 25 mph. Maybe a little less off time than w/o it set, but it certainly isn't fully locked, at least on dry pavement.

At 40-45 mph on a dirt road in RI, full pedal produced about 4 volts, so that's what I'm designing my mod to output.[/quote']

My rear clutch monitor LED shows the rear drive on my 4WD engages somewhat every time I shift into D or R even while stopped. I suspect it's just "getting ready" if it's needed because it goes off quickly when you start off.

Those with 4WD could try the "LOCK" button to see if it makes any difference or drop the glove box and pull the plug on the right-hand (US models) module to disable the 4WD.

On my 2008 RAV4' date=' does the AWD engage in reverse as well as in forward?

This, more a curiosity question than anything else.... but who knows, I may 'need' it some day. [img']http://www.rav4world.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Tommy

Yes it does! Tried it in a dirt parking lot last night. (Also a good test for my newly installed 1992/ERD backup bulbs.) I don't think I've ever punched it hard in reverse' date=' but reverse must be geared lower than first because it REALLY goes. The front end drops and it literally jumps [img']http://www.rav4world.com/forums/images/smilies/icon_surprised.gif backwards. My rear drive test LED came on bright and I had absolutely no rear wheel spin. A definite YES!

[Hoovie]

Very interesting James :) Did Dr D. Complete his mod yet, btw?

[anchorman]

Thats interesting James.

I wonder if a bulb would be better as you could watch it dim down rather than collapse?

[junebug1701]

Very interesting James :) Did Dr D. Complete his mod yet, btw?

I don't think he has, I'll check with him. Being able to lock 4WD at any speed would be handy, as long as the clutch can handle it.

Thats interesting James.

I wonder if a bulb would be better as you could watch it dim down rather than collapse?

A 12 volt bulb should work fine, although it would draw more current. My guess would be that this is a 0-10 volt analog signal.

[junebug1701]

OK, I checked in with Dr. Dyno again:

Hey Fred' date=' did you ever complete your mod to allow 4WD lock at higher speeds? What have you learned from your LED monitor? Do you think they are using a 0-10 volt analog signal to regulate the clutch? [/quote']

The specs say a variable 0-3A is supplied which I believe comes from 0-12V drive. I still have the LED on our car and believe it's a 12V one with a built in resistor. Actually it IS 12V (14V) because I used a 4 ohm resistor to get the 3A.

I pretty much shelved the whole idea partly because it was for my brother-in-law's RAV4 in Alaska and I don't like putting "projects" on other vehicles especially non-local ones. He has a 4x4 Tundra for severe conditions.

The other reason is it set the 4WD error light I believe because it must be monitoring the return (ground) path current. That could be bypassed but probably not w/o a lot of design.

What 4WD lock sets up, besides extra strain on the components which probably goes up as the square of the speed, is a conflict with ABS both in braking and when TRAC is trying to stop a spinning wheel. From the HEAVY thumping I heard during my deep snow tests a couple winters ago I can just see stuff breaking at higher speeds than 25MPH.

Watching the LED shows that even with Lock on, it unlocks under braking. Also interesting is that driving on a dry road at highway speeds the LED starts to come on dimly every 30 seconds or so and then goes dark after a couple seconds. Apparently it's detecting the slight difference in wheel speeds due to tire wear. That explains why it's sooo aggressive and effective on wet roads. It comes on bright up to maybe 20MPH with any throttle at all with the V6 even in the dry. So most drivers with 4WD don't have any clue what the FWD V6 owners experience for wheelspin.

[Hoovie]

More interesting stuff James.

Don't think most of us (me anyway) realise just how clever this modern 4WD stuff is!

Dr Dynos analysis confirms the benefit that a on-demand AWD system gives on day-to-day driving and is not just for "off roading" as many people seem to assume.