Help - Possible Problem With Car...

[mystic]

What!? over £350 for a brake dust shield? They are about £20, 30 at a push!

[paulnanrod]

Where from mystic? The garage I use thought it is ridiculous so wanted to know if he can get them cheaper. This was Toyota's prices

[paulnanrod]

I think I've confused things......I have no idea where to start with the mechanics of cars.

The RAC man said dust shield. The garage said the part is the backing plate. Still clueless so will speak to the garage in the morning and get the correct part!

Thanks again

[webleymk3]

I was caught in this situation with my first car. bought it in Northern Ireland, had it brought over by my uncle and only then did i notice the front brake disks were completely shot....

I took photos and sent them back to the dealer who approved the local garage to quote for it.. My suggestion was that they speak to each other as the one with the car was able to accurately describe the issues. This was backed up with photos being sent over to prove it and the work was authorised. It meant the mechanics could speak to each other and leave me out of it... after all i didn't want to be caught in the middle.

I would also suggest you local garage have a thorough review of the car. check EVERYTHING. pay him to do it.. Get him to list it all then take it up with the dealer....

All the best mate.

[jedi134]

I think I've confused things......I have no idea where to start with the mechanics of cars.

The RAC man said dust shield. The garage said the part is the backing plate. Still clueless so will speak to the garage in the morning and get the correct part!

Thanks again

Maybe its not the dust shield but the backing plate for the drum/shoe handbrake system thats rusted, .....or more than likely whats happened is they`ve got the 2 mixed up........

see PDf`s below

Rav Rear disc.pdf

Rav Drum&Backing plate.pdf

[anchorman]

There are 2 shields, one is the big round one at the top left of the picture and I've heard they can be hellish expensive on other brands but this sometimes takes the form of a torque plate. In other words all the brake parts are fastened to it and it takes up all the braking forces like the one Jedi has shown for the drum brake. This isn't the case on a RAV but it does support all the hand brake gubbins so it is more than just a dirt shield. It will need it for MOT though so no leaving it off!

The second shield is in the panel under the shield marked 47767. These often fall off but should be fitted as they are part of the pin retaining system.

[paulnanrod]

Anchorman - Just to make sure I understand it right (before I go to the garage my car is at to check and before/if I hear from the dealer) on my 2004 Rav4 will the dust shield be the one that houses the handbrake therefore necessary? If so worrying as it's been MOTd recently and they must have noticed the rust being near to breaking point

Sorry to be asking thick questions, but I want to try to understand things before going to the dealer - a refund sounds the easy option (to me) here, but will have to see what his suggestion is....

[anchorman]

I can't answer that without seeing it. I have never heard of that big expensive and important one going and to be honest it amazes me. I have been in the braking industry for many years and seen lots of brakes but that one could only be PARTLY missing if it had been in a highly corrosive environment like regularly on a beach or in and out of a limestone quarry.

On the other hand that cheap one I told you about is often missing and while it is not ideal it is not critical either. This is the trouble when an AA or RAC "mechanic" comes out with a statement without qualifying it. I would simply go to the garage you have chosen and find out just what they have found. My feeling is it will be the cheap one and there is nothing to worry about. However, you need to be sure so see what they say and if you are still unsure, take some photos and let us see for some proper guidance.

[paulnanrod]

I've emailed the dealer the following with his response at the bottom......

Paul

I've spoken to Peter at the garage I use about repairing the car and he has explained the following is needed:

Brake Caliper £75 + VAT x 2

Brake Pad £25.17 + VAT x 2

Back Plate £367 + VAT x 2 (This part is only obtainable from Toyota - he has checked the other suppliers he uses, as he thought this is very expensive, and cannot get one elsewhere)

This is not including the labour, so need to check this when he is back in, as he is off work today so will speak with him tomorrow. He explained that when replacing one brake caliper the other should be done at the same time to ensure even braking for safety. He has also explained that the brake back plate/dust shield that has corroded and come off is the same on the other side so needed replacing as this will happen.

I know when you spoke to me you explained you may be able to get the parts cheaper and get them to me to be fitted here.

Please can you let me know which is going to be the best way of proceeding?

Regards

Paul

hi paul only 1 brake caliper is faulty , you dont need to replace both, rear pads come as a set , i will get prices and come back to you ,

kind regards paul

[anchorman]

If it needs the backplates then it really needs both calipers and a complete set of pads. He is going to need to take the discs off and he is going to have to remove the handbrake shoes. Unless these are in very good condition it would be false economy to leave them. You are looking in excess of a grand when all is done. Can you get any photos?

[paulnanrod]

The only photo I have so far is the one of the cable tie on the previous page.....I'm going to the garage tomorrow where my car is so will see if I can get any. I want to take the prints down of the pdf's so will see which part etc.

Think it'll be back to citizens advice/trading standards about this one. I've held back with Trading Standards until it's fixed, but with spending the money on the car I want it right. With him selling an unroadworthy car they're wanting to get involved so will have to see what they say....

[anchorman]

Why, have they refused to pay?

[jedi134]

A Scottish tradition maybe? :D

[paulnanrod]

Getting beyond a joke now.....After receiving the email from him on 17/05/12 (above) I have emailed on Sunday evening wanting an update. No reply. I called the garage today and he is on holiday for a week until Saturday.

I have now been without my car since the evening of 14/05/12. Awaiting a call from him or the person who he has left in charge whilst he is away.

This is all from the man who explained to me that he relies on reputation for his business......My opinion of his reputation must mean that business is shocking!!!

Saga goes on so will have to wait and see......

[anchorman]

Give it to them in writing asking for a reply within 7 days.

[paulnanrod]

Well....just spoken with the garage owner on his personal mobile and he's transferring the money to me to fix it myself.....Only one caliper and the pads. Disappointed that is all he is doing as I paid money for a car that should have been in working order and as explained, but at least it's getting fixed and I will have a car back!

Citizens advice have told me I need to report them to trading standards for selling an unroadworthy car so unsure whether to do this, as it may have been a genuine mistake.

Thanks for all help and hopefully this will be sorted soon!

[anchorman]

I thought you said it needed a backplate?

[paulnanrod]

The mechanic I used said the back plate has some rust on but hasn't corroded through. The part that came off is from a non-major part (the one that doesn't house the handbrake). He said they could do with replacing but aren't necessary now.

I thought I was pushing things trying to get the list done and have been advised the only bit that needed doing is the caliper, although recommendation to do both.

I'm at the point where I just want the car back. I've owned the car for 2 weeks tomorrow and only had it for 5 days of that

[crofter]

Paul,you have had a very,very raw deal on this and after the toing and froing you have been through I am not surprised you want to get this sorted and behind you.and this decision can only be yours.

AS for your reluctance to involve Trading Standards,for all you know this is normal practice from this seller.

However,TS would come to their own conclusions about this being a simple mistake,and act accordingly.

Was this car" sold as seen" although I am not sure wether it is now legal to do so.

This car seems,to me,to have been sold in a unroadworthy,and dangerous,condition and I can't in any way see that as right.

This opinion may prove to be a load of old codswallop but that is the way I would see it.

Follow your heart on this.matie,and if that is all that is wrong with this motor you should have some happy motoring to look forward to.

Del

[paulnanrod]

I'm hoping happy motoring ahead, but getting more and more annoyed....

The dealer was out with his family earlier so would not be at a computer until 5pm (ish). At this time he 'was' going to transfer the money to my account. The money is not yet in my account and I cannot get through to him on his phone.......blood is beginning to boil

He has until the morning to get the money to my account, but either way TS is seeming to be the way. I have been messed around enough by this man - at the end of the day I was promised a car that was in good condition. No sold as seen (the same as you, I think this is now illegal under the Sales of Goods act 1979).

Paul

[CharlieFarlie]

You have 28 days from the date of purchase to reject the car under the sale of goods act, You rejection should fall under the heading of NOT fit for purpose as well as being dangerous...

Accepting a payment (If in fact one arrives) could mean in the eyes of the law that compensation has been accepted ..

Once a payment has been made and accepted you will have no further recompense....

Sorry I'm confused ,... Does the car need backplates or not ? There can be no grey areas here and certainly no grey areas when negotiating with the dealer who sold You the car...

You need to decide or get a written report to the dealer illustrating EXACTLY what it is you want from this.........

The longer the Dealer gives the run around the harder it will get to achieve a satisfactory outcome..

Simplest and easiest way is a total rejection of said vehicle as above NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE and furthermore not safe to be on the highway...

Unless a contract of sale was agreed that was signed by You that the car was sold as seen then You have Your statutory rights in place.

I believe it is against consumer law for Any Dealer to sell a car without a 3 month warranty in place... OK these warranties are normally very very limited indeed but one has to be in place or the Dealer is breaking consumer law...

[Hoovie]

Hope it works out ok for you

As far as "sold as seen" goes, I think nowadays unless a car is described as being for "spares or repairs", a car must be in a safe decent condition, irrespective of if the seller is trade OR private.

[Oilkid]

Don't know if you have any American mates but the links below have most of the parts u need, no where near the price of Toyota UK, but they don't ship to uk(hence the mate requirement)

http://www.toyotapartszone.com/2004/47-06-7-toyota-rav-4-rear-drum-brake-wheel-cylinder-backing-plate.html

http://www.toyotapartszone.com/2002/46-01-58-toyota-camry-parking-brake-cable~2.html

Jas

[laze]

A 'genuine mistake'? He buys and sells cars for a living! I think you're being too kind... definitely report him to Trading Standards.

If you decide to buy the parts from America (as suggested above) there are companies, eg [LINK REMOVED], that will provide you with an American address, and then ship the items on from there.

Edited May 27, 2012 by leonkehoe

[CharlieFarlie]

A 'genuine mistake'? He buys and sells cars for a living! I think you're being too kind... definitely report him to Trading Standards.

If you decide to buy the parts from America (as suggested above) there are companies, eg [LINK REMOVED], that will provide you with an American address, and then ship the items to the UK from there.

You might consider that Lindop are Forum sponsors ?? Indicating ways to buy Parts from the states or elsewhere is hardly encouraging to the sponsors ??

Edited May 27, 2012 by leonkehoe