5Th Gear Rattle On 4.2!

[sniper9652]

Hi folks, after recently getting my blown Garrett turbo replaced (cost £1000 all-in) I now have a rattle and vibration when travelling (mostly up hill?) at about 65-70 mph in 5th gear? I have seen on 'Rav4world' (link below) that there is a kit to for the 4.1 to replace the 5th gear only and that it is reasonably easy to perform without having to replace the whole g/box?

I find myself touching the lever with my knee to stop the vibration! As soon as this problem arose I had the g/box oil replaced with correct fluid but the problem is still there? Is this a common problem with the 4.2 and is there an easy....ish fix?

TIA, Steve

http://www.rav4world...elf-repair.html

[anchorman]

Somebody once made an improvement by adjusting the cables but if not its the same fix as R4W.

[Tech01]

Checking the cables might help mask the problem, but replace the 5th gear assembly. I delayed doing it for months, but problem now totally sorted.

Chris

[sniper9652]

Checking the cables might help mask the problem, but replace the 5th gear assembly. I delayed doing it for months, but problem now totally sorted.

Chris

Thanks anchorman and hi Chris, can you inform me of how you went about changing the fifth gear...parts, cost...etc?

And for a final stupid question,,,where are the cables mentioned by you and anchs?

TIA, Steve

[anchorman]

Steve, you posted the instructions for changing the parts. The cables come in near the top of the gearbox but from what you are saying you might be better getting a good lacal garage to sort it out. I can recommend one in Chapel-en-le-Frith which might be convenient depending on which part of Cheshire you are in.

[sniper9652]

Steve, you posted the instructions for changing the parts. The cables come in near the top of the gearbox but from what you are saying you might be better getting a good lacal garage to sort it out. I can recommend one in Chapel-en-le-Frith which might be convenient depending on which part of Cheshire you are in.

Yes, if you don't mind Don. I live in Warrington but I deliver goods to 'Street Crane' in C-E-L-F about once a month so I am fairly familier with the area! I was really asking Chris how he went about it in the UK as I think the info I put a link too was from the USA on R4W?

TIA, Steve

[Tech01]

Hi Steve,

Sorry if I cross lines with Don, but the two articles you're looking for are:

rav4world.com/forums/85-4-1-faults-fixes/64188-5th-gear-popping-out-self-repair.html

- this contains lots of good photos, and a suggestion for making your own (essential) puller.

and (sorry for the full reprint, but trouble with the link)...

anchorman, on 17 July 2008 - 10:25 PM, said:

phildr, on Jul 17 2008, 07:26 PM, said:

As promised..

I have repaired my 5th gear problem (it used to keep popping out). This involved replacing the sleeve and the actual5th gear, as well as the components that make up the synchronizer mechanism.

It is now extremely smooth - no rattles or vibrations - I think better than when I first bought the car..

I have also noticed that shifting into other gears especially reverse is now much smoother - without that notchy feeling.. This could be down to the new gearbox oil that I put in.

On a scale of 1 - 10 this job is about 5 in complexity, and the only special tools I needed was a puller (I used a harmonic balancer puller) - though I had to buy the m8 bolts that attached the puller to the synchro hub. These are standard HT M8s with a standard thread pitch (I obtained these at Halfords).

The pusher (to push the hub back on) was fashioned out of a large socket - plus 2 ring spanners, a M12 bolt (100mm) with a fine thread pitch (1.5mm). The two spanners were used as spacers on the pusher as the M12 bolt's thread length was about 30mm only.

Total time to do this job was about 6 hours all in - could be done quicker I guess but this was my first time.

The information in http://rav4world.com...opic.php?t=8866 is valid for my model (RAV 4.2) - the gearbox looks identical.

The only brainy bit that I had to worry about was putting the synchroniser back together - I used the exploded diagrams of the gearbox components that anchorman kindly pointed me at to help me here.

When I looked at the replacement parts (Thanks Kingo! ) and compared them to what I pulled out of the gearbox the only visible difference I could see was between the gear teeth patterns on the 5th gear and the sleeve. These were quite different - and could be down to wear.

I dont believe the synchro hub was the problem here - the components (Rings springs etc all looked fine) - however I changed these as well.

I think I saved about £400 in labour.

I took some pictures (of my pusher) as well as pictures that look like those on the site above..I can post those as well if anyone is interested.

This is the parts list I used:

T08826-00090 C106 SEAL PACKING (gasket maker)

T33336-42030 N/STK FIFTH gear

T90364-28023 N/STK NEEDEL BEARING

T33397-28010 N/STK SYNCHRO-RING

T33396-28010 N/STK SYNCHRO-RING

T33395-42010 N/STK TRANS.HUB&SLEE

T90179-20012 N/STK NUT

T33398-12010 N/STK SYNCHRO-RING

T33393-42010 N/STK TRANS.HUB&SLEE

T33399-12011 N/STK SYNCHRO-RING

T33392-12010 Q1074 SPRING, SHFTING

T33392-12020 Q1074 SPRING, SHFTING

-phil

I've had the annoying gear lever buzz in 5th (only). It started about 18 months ago, and slowly became a hammering rattle, which no amount of light finger pressure on the gearstick would prevent. Following various folks' advice, I checked over the gearcables and their rubber bushing, and found no problem. I re-greased the gear lever's ball/socket and joint mechanism, and removed and greased up all the swivels and balljoints at the gearbox end of the shift cables (the bell-crank mechanism). This produced a small degree of muting, but no cure. The gearstick vibration continued, worst at full throttle and at 100-120kph (60-75mph), always and only in 5th.

I concluded that I had a worn Fifth gear (the subject of TSB WS-3002, Dec.2003), and last week replaced the complete 5thgearcluster. The parts list above was right for my 2003 4.2, except for the second item: 33364-42020, instead of 33364-42030. (Also, Nut 90179-20012, I found I didn't need, as it wasn't necessary to remove the layshaft-mounted gear.)

The job has been helpfully photographed at:

rav4world.com/forums/85-4-1-faults-fixes/64188-5th-gear-popping-out-self-repair.html

All in, about a four hour job, the only fiddly bit being the assembly of the synchro components. It is essential to make up a disc or plate puller, as suggested, to remove the gear assembly (after first tapping away the thick circlip on the shaft end). Do not try to use a hooked puller on the gear cluster assembly: it’s a very snug fit on the splined shaft, and you’ll break something if you try. Make up a puller, and use the three threaded holes with three suitable bolts. I know you’re going to replace all the bits, but, if they break up and fall out, you’ll never know what goes where. I speak from experience here!

Refilled the box with 75W-80 (has always worked for me, and far better changes than with 75W-90), and it drives and shifts like new. No vibration whatsoever, and a nice positively-located feel to fifth gear.

My local Toyota (main agent) mechanics (Malaga, Spain) say they have replaced countless fifth gear assemblies, on RAVs from late ‘90s onwards. New parts “always” cure the problem, they tell me.

Cost of parts was 658 Euro, plus vat.

It looks to me as if a buzzing gear lever is very likely an early-warning for a fifth gear wear problem of failure waiting to happen. By all means check the cable lubrication (both ends) and bushing, but don’t hold your breath.

Chris

Chris

[sniper9652]

Thanks a lot for that info Chris, much appreciated and Don (anchorman) any chance of the name of that garage in C-E-L-F that you mentioned just in-case I go down that route?

TIA, Steve

[anchorman]

Sent you a pm on Thursday!

[sniper9652]

Hi folks, after recently getting my blown Garrett turbo replaced (cost £1000 all-in) I now have a rattle and vibration when travelling (mostly up hill?) at about 65-70 mph in 5th gear? I have seen on 'Rav4world' (link below) that there is a kit to for the 4.1 to replace the 5th gear only and that it is reasonably easy to perform without having to replace the whole g/box?

I find myself touching the lever with my knee to stop the vibration! As soon as this problem arose I had the g/box oil replaced with correct fluid but the problem is still there? Is this a common problem with the 4.2 and is there an easy....ish fix?

TIA, Steve

http://www.rav4world...elf-repair.html

Well, I'm just about fed up with the frickin 5th gear rattle now and have decided to get a local (Warrington) transmission specialist to replace the 5th gear (Thanks anchs for your offer earlier this year!) They have quoted me £300+VAT for the repair! I have nothing to compare this cost to so don't really know if its a fair /good deal?

The good thing is that even though they are completely independent they are aware of the 5th gear problem with the Rav and are fully aware of how to complete the repair without removing the g/box (as per above link)

I was wondering though how much the parts would cost to complete this replacement as I suppose that would give me a good idea of what the overall cost should be?

TIA, Steve

[Parts-King]

One EACH of the above parts (excluding the sealer which is £69) is £549, as mentioned in the PM, you might or might not need all the parts listed. It is not the same repair as the 4.1 but similar

Kingo

[sniper9652]

Hi folks, after recently getting my blown Garrett turbo replaced (cost £1000 all-in) I now have a rattle and vibration when travelling (mostly up hill?) at about 65-70 mph in 5th gear? I have seen on 'Rav4world' (link below) that there is a kit to for the 4.1 to replace the 5th gear only and that it is reasonably easy to perform without having to replace the whole g/box?

I find myself touching the lever with my knee to stop the vibration! As soon as this problem arose I had the g/box oil replaced with correct fluid but the problem is still there? Is this a common problem with the 4.2 and is there an easy....ish fix?

TIA, Steve

http://www.rav4world...elf-repair.html

Well, I'm just about fed up with the frickin 5th gear rattle now and have decided to get a local (Warrington) transmission specialist to replace the 5th gear (Thanks anchs for your offer earlier this year!) They have quoted me £300+VAT for the repair! I have nothing to compare this cost to so don't really know if its a fair /good deal?

The good thing is that even though they are completely independent they are aware of the 5th gear problem with the Rav and are fully aware of how to complete the repair without removing the g/box (as per above link)

I was wondering though how much the parts would cost to complete this replacement as I suppose that would give me a good idea of what the overall cost should be?

TIA, Steve

Well, back off holiday now (Cotswolds) and the baby goes into a local (Warrington) gearbox specialist tomorrow (5/9) to have the 5th gear replaced! I have been quoted £300 + VAT for the complete job...parts, labour...etc! Now judging by the cost of the parts alone as quoted by kingo this price sounds pretty much excellent?...time will tell! This specialist (which I won't name as I think it's against forum rules?) have a very good rep in the area..I'm not sure but I think they are country wide?

Anyway, I don't know how long they will have her but I will post a report on here when I get her back!

Steve

[Tech01]

I honestly don't believe that replacement of the 5th gear components (with new and genuine) for this price is actually possible. It does sound about right for the labour charge only, though. There's something not right here.

Chris

[sniper9652]

I honestly don't believe that replacement of the 5th gear components (with new and genuine) for this price is actually possible. It does sound about right for the labour charge only, though. There's something not right here.

Chris

Well Chris you'd better believe it! Got the Rav back from the specialists earlier and what a result...the gearbox through all gears (especially 5th) is perfect and very smooth with NO vibration!

I have just been out for an hour test driving her and the results are better than expected. The time that the rattle and vibration was at its worst were when driving up-hill and between 60-70mph...This does not happen anymore..at all..never...yipeee!!!

The total cost was as quoted £300+VAT (£360) When I picked the car up I asked why it was so cheap and mentioned some of the comments by members on the TOC? His reply was " we are transmission specialists and we ONLY replace what NEEDS replacing" They informed me that it is a common fault with the 5th gear on these boxes and the replacement/repair is pretty straight forward, he stated that they did replace the 5th gear assy!!

It was nice not to get 'ripped off' and dealing with people who really know what they are talking about made all the difference, I have regained my faith!!!

I mentioned that other members with this problem may want to use their services for the same price and his reply was that other boxes may have different damaged/worn components and therefore may differ in price!! (which is fair enough)

Steve

[anchorman]

If I approached this job not knowing anything about the history I would do the same - pull it apart and change only the worn parts after visually inspecting them.

[Tech01]

Hi Sniper,

This is really good news for you! Glad it's sorted.

For future info, it would be nice to know exactly which components they replaced. Folks with this problem (which is fairly common) have tended to follow RAV4World and UK advice, and replace the complete 5th gear cluster (the items listed above). Although individuaI cases vary, of course, it would be good to note which items didn't need replacing in your case. Could you find out for us?

Chris

[anchorman]

Yeah, I think so too. They might not want to tell us though!!!

[Tech01]

Details on their invoice??

C.

[Parts-King]

They will almost certainly have fitted the bare minimum, the TSB refers to fitting a handful of parts, all superceeded and not interchangable with older parts. I have a local gearbox expert near me, he is able to buy non genuine bearings,gears etc for a fraction of the price Toyota charge. Weirdly enough though, he can never get 5th gear (or rarely) for the Toyota's he works on

Kingo

[sniper9652]

Details on their invoice??

C.

As follows:

Supply and fit 5th gear assy and renew/replace associated worn or u/s components.

[sniper9652]

They will almost certainly have fitted the bare minimum, the TSB refers to fitting a handful of parts, all superceeded and not interchangable with older parts. I have a local gearbox expert near me, he is able to buy non genuine bearings,gears etc for a fraction of the price Toyota charge. Weirdly enough though, he can never get 5th gear (or rarely) for the Toyota's he works on

Kingo

I have been thinking a bit more about this today...... 3 weeks ago when I first took the car to this specialist and explained the problem the MD of the company said "come on I will take it out for a test drive to hear and see the problem for myself" this gent was in his early sixties and we struck up a real good rapport, we even discovered that we had served in the same British Army Regiment as well (different era's!) He explained the Rav 5th gear problem to me and he was fully aware of it without me saying anything! He then informed me that they had the parts I probably needed already in his premises and that he (his staff) would complete the work for £300 + VAT!! (a bit earlier on he had mentioned that he had 2 Rav g/box's already upstairs?)

I am starting to think that I was just lucky with this one...'right place right time' scenario, he/they may have stripped the parts needed off these 2 box's that he already had (which would point towards genuine parts?)

To be honest I got treated really well as a customer from a professional organisation and they quoted me what I think was a fair price so I don't really care now what they did because the proof is in the pudding, the car is running great with no hint of vibration at all from any of the gears and its a pleasure to drive! Job done!!!

Steve