0W20 In A 1Zz-Fe........anyone Tried It?

[ThePermanentProject]

Hi all........

A theoretical question for you...........has anyone tried running a (pre-facelift) 1zz-fe on 0w20???

My onwers manual specifies the thinnest oil as 5w20, yet the latest service estimate i have says 0w30.........

Therefore, if the thinnest this engine can handle at cold is 0w grade, and the thinnest at operating temp is 20 grade, would a 0w20 be ok?

I should point out this would be going into a well-cared for 57K engine that has no major gremlins.......

What is the general consensus? A good idea? A stupid idea? or is this going into the unkown a bit????

[Red Yaris 54]

Not necessary to use the dearer 0w-20 as the recommended oil is 5w-20

You will gain no real advantage in using 0w-20 and might cause harm to your engine.

It really is your decision and at your own risk!

[Scarlett Arrow]

Not necessary to use the dearer 0w-20 as the recommended oil is 5w-30

You will gain no real advantage in using 0w-20 and might cause harm to your engine.

It really is your decision and at your own risk!

Edited for you :)

[armoredfist2002]

Depents on how much spirited driving you do, if you tend to revv it a bit higher I would put 5w30 in.

Best bet is to ask oilman (opieoils)

[ThePermanentProject]

Morning Guys,

Thanks for your take on this.

As you say - i will ask oilman - and see what Opie have to say on the idea.

From experience with my 4-age powered mr2, the manual says minimum is 10w40, but after 2 service intervals and 15K miles (at over 120K miles), Castrol seem to be far more on the pace - recommending 5w30........

Does anyone know / has found if there is a preferential ACEA rating also for the 1zzfe?

[armoredfist2002]

Does anyone know / has found if there is a preferential ACEA rating also for the 1zzfe?

Don't know what the rating is for any of the celica engines, all oils I look at seem to be recommended for VW, Ford and BMW engines, it's like toyota don't want you to use anything other than their own oil.

Could try asking at your local dealer, if they don't know see if they can look on a bottle of their oil,they always have it in stock, but may not be printed on there.

[ThePermanentProject]

Yeh armoredfist2002, tried this several weeks ago - with no luck, but stopped in at the local dealership again tonight, hoping for better luck..........

Guy on the desk there, although very polite - on a technical basis - wasn't a huge help.

From what i can understand, Toyota's oils - available to joe public - are all of the 'C1/2/3' rating. If the dealership was doing the service though, they would be using oil with the new C4 ACEA grade - that is only available through their dealership network - and within the trade.

So apparently anything of a 'C' rating is correct.....

Yet strangely, (from exactly the same dealership) the SLX 0w30 they state on their service estimate is listed as A3/B3 by Castrol........

Thankyou Toyota. As Clear as mud..........lol.

[edwardio]

You're meant to use 5W30. I use 0W40 in mine, but that's because of my setup.

I know that 0W20 is meant to be to improve fuel economy, but I'd guess as your engine is at least 10 years old, it wouldn't really benefit from using it. Just use a quality brand 5W30.

[armoredfist2002]

found these for the ACEA ratings

As long as I have an A3 and B3 rating I should be fine on my 2ZZ engine

The full ACEA specs are:

• A1 Fuel Economy Petrol †
  
• A2 Standard performance level
  
• A3 High performance and / or extended drain
  
• A5 Fuel economy petrol with extended drain capability †
  
• B1 Fuel Economy diesel †
  
• B2 Standard performance level (now obsolete)
  
• B3 High performance and / or extended drain
  
• B4 For direct injection passenger car diesel engines
  
• B5 Fuel economy diesel with extended drain capability †
  

† Not suitable for all engines - should ONLY be used in engines specifying this fuel efficient grade. Refer to the manufacturer handbook of contact your local dealer if you're not sure.

Mineral oils:

• E1 Non-turbo charged light duty diesel
  
• E2 Standard performance level
  
• E3 High performance extended drain
  
• E5 (1999) High performance / long drain plus American/API performances. - This is ACEAs first attempt at a global spec.
  
• E7 Euro 4 engines - exhaust after treatment (EGR / SCR)
  

Part / full synthetic oils:

• E4 Higher performance and longer extended drain
  
• E6 Euro 4 specification - low SAPS for vehicles with PDF
  

Taken from

http://www.carbibles...eoil_bible.html

The new C ratings will be more for the newer cars with lower emissions, and don't really apply to your car due to age. These will be for the likes of the prius so the oils don't damage the cat as much as other oils.

This is what I make it out to be from what I could find, didn't know what any of the ACEA ratings on oils meant until now.

Learn something new everyday

[ThePermanentProject]

Stumbled across this (annoyingly) just after i posted last night............

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=acea%20rating&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CF0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.valvoline.com.au%2Fpdf%2FEssential%2520Guide%2520to%2520Motor%2520Oil%2520Brochure%2520FINAL.pdf&ei=mhjiT4TQHamK0AW-6-CNAw&usg=AFQjCNH5V66SeBHOPQ-SUUsCrxJ9XSOBNg&cad=rja

Pretty much says what you have found. Does have a few additional bits in it, so might be worth a read (?) - too long to try and explain in a post really.

As far as i understand it - (academically at least) if you have a petrol engine fitted with a cat, you should be using a C3 spec oil.

On a practical basis - as you say - due to her age (and the fact she has been running on A3/B3 SLX just fine for the past 6.5K miles now, and that she was designed by toyota long before the 'C' spec came about - i think?), i doubt there would be any noticeable benefit over an oil change interval, or even over several, probably.

I reckon i'll break this question down into a couple of parts/steps.

As the book on her says minimum is 5w20, i'll see if i can find her some 5w20 C3 for the next change - and observe what happens - as opposed to the 0w30 A3/B3 she's on now.

If all goes well on that, i'll see what the state of affairs is then, and maybe give her a go on Toyota's thin stuff, if all else is ideal...........

I - like you Colin - wasn't really sure what all these codes meant untill now.

Thanks for your input on this guys. Learnt a fair bit in the past 48 hours.......

[ThePermanentProject]

edwardio,

Not wishing to poke my nose in where it is not wanted, but curiosity is getting the better of me........

What is it in your setup that demands 0w40 as opposed to the book's 5w30?

Are you running your's on Mobil??? If so, can i ask your opinion? ( i have been loyal to Castrol up untill now)........

[armoredfist2002]

edwardio,

Not wishing to poke my nose in where it is not wanted, but curiosity is getting the better of me........

What is it in your setup that demands 0w40 as opposed to the book's 5w30?

Are you running your's on Mobil??? If so, can i ask your opinion? ( i have been loyal to castrol up untill now)........

I should be able to answer that one, as edwardio is running a supercharger he needs higher viscosity oil due to higher temperatures in the engine, i'm running 5w40 in mine but no supercharger as of yet, as you only have a 140 engine in yours what you currently have is fine, but as the 190 engines revv to 8200rpm some are higher after engine mods quite a few of us would rather have a slightly higher viscosity oil to protect the engine if you give the engine a good thrashing, and the supercharged lot need it more than I do, it's just what lee at se7en motorsports puts in when doing the supercharger conversions.

Personally if I was you I wouldn't use 5w20 as I wouldn't like to think the 20 isn't a high enough viscosity in the oil to protect the engine especially if you do any longer journeys or spirited driving, it really depends on your driving style.

[ThePermanentProject]

Ahh right. Edwardio is Lee at se7en motorsports? - sorry - just catching on!

Didn't realise you were both running VVTLi's with / looking at mods. That makes sense. If you have the ability to rev the engine that bit higher than me, you will need something with a little more resilience i guess.

I'm not a tarmac-creaser. She is basically used as a (reasonably nice) commuter vehicle. Rarely does more then......40 minute journeys - in rush hour, at about 10 miles a trip - mostly motorway.

In the 15 months i have had her, i think the fastest she has seen is 5k rpm, (maybe...... once) - and that was about 2 days after i got her when i was still adapting to the gearbox, screwed up at a junction, and messed up the gear change coming out of it........

She maybe gets a trip from the south coast to the midlands once a year, but other than that, she's a short-journey car really......

Compared to what the engine is capable of, i reckon she has a fairly low-demand life.......

She might well benefit from an occasional thrash actually i guess. Might well clear out some of the rubbish that is undoubtedly accumulating in there.......

[armoredfist2002]

No Edwardio is NOT Lee from se7en motorsports.

Taking the engine to the redline once in a while will help clean a little buildup out of the engine

[edwardio]

lol I didn't need to open my mouth!

I am a Lee, but no not Lee from Se7en Motorsports!

Before my engine swap I used to use Castrol 5W30 and stuck to it. Once Se7en fitted the supercharger put in Mobil 0W40 (as has been said).

[ThePermanentProject]

Apologies Lee. Still learning who is who in here........

[edwardio]

Lol. No need for apologies. I wish I had Lee's skills though!

[ThePermanentProject]

Evening All,

Right, think i am going to have to 'fess up to this.............

Seems i have got this all a bit wrong................(sorry..... )

Read the owners manual again, this time reading what is written - not what i assume (-first fault) would be written.....

Seems the 1zz-fe requires an API oil, rated as either SJ, or SL (-preferably) or newer (SM, or SN)....... not an oil prinicpally rated by ACEA.

Had a look at a couple of bottles in the local supermarket this evening. Oils labeled as meeting API SL also have the the ACEA A1 rating attached, so despite the ACEA warnings of this being too thin for some engines, the 1zz-fe (it seems) can run on it ok.........

I haven't looked to see if there are any 0wXX oils under the SJ or SL (2001, 2004) ratings, (i'm guessing anything 0wXX under SM or SN wll be much more expensive?), but a 4L bottle of API SL / ACEA A1 5w30 for £10 (from said supermarket) - despite being slightly thicker than the 0w30 i'm running now - looks awfully tempting at the moment.......

For anyone who might be interested.......http://www.api.org/oil-and-natural-gas-overview/fuels-and-refining/engine-oil/~/media/Files/Oil-and-Natural-Gas/Engine%20Oil/MOTOR_OIL_GUIDE_2010_120210.ashx

[edwardio]

As yours is preface lift you need to use s good quality oil, so you need a good named brand. Mobil, Castrol etc.

The last thing you want is to use cheap oil & give the engine more chance to develop the oil burning fault; which will cost you a new engine.

Buy a good oil, check it weekly & service it regularly. Using an engine flush will help as well.

[ThePermanentProject]

Would you regard 'Carlube' as a good brand? I don't really know...........(that is what is on the shelf at the supemarket right now).....

As you say - i put some engine flush through her before the last oil change (first change with me as the owner). Was quite distrubing at the amount of rubbish that it seemed to help bring out through the drain hole.........

Based on this experience, i think i will be flushing her at each change now - just as a default operation..............

[edwardio]

I wouldn't say carlube is a good quality oil, maybe a mid range oil. I'd still go with someone like Mobil or Castrol.

[Simon Williams_42232]

been following your tread.

So is it a good idea to "flush" the engine? just goggled it and some people say its not good because some of the junk and oils get clogged else where.

Anyway, is Wynns a good brand to go with if going ahead with Flushing? and when it says "drain the crank case" is that just a case of letting oil drain from the slump? and how much oil does the celica vvtli need after a change?

Thanks

[ThePermanentProject]

Hi Simon,

As you have done - i've googled the topic a bit now.......

General consensus out there (from what i have read) seems to be you shouldn't flush an engine unless you are certain / have good justification for thinking all the oil (& contaminants) won't come out as a part of the standard drain procedure.

I flushed mine as a belt and braces effort (given this engine model's rep with oil) with some cheapy Granville stuff and refilled her until the dip-stick read correct - turned out to be a little shy of 4L - as i wasn't sure what grade/viscosity was used by the previous owner.

I'm not sure on the VVTLi engine. I know it is a very different animal to the 1zzfe. Check your handbook.

[edwardio]

The reason why you should use an engine flush is becuase you need to prevent the oil burning issue from kicking in.

This is an extract from a post on Celica Club in regards to the oil burning issue & how it comes about:

The root cause is the sticking of the oil control rings due to degradation of the engine oil.

There are a number of contributory factors:

1. Failure to follow the Manufacturers Service Schedule causes oil degradation.

2. Oil entering the combustion chamber being burnt and carried by ‘blow by’ gas down side of

piston as carbon particles.

3. The lower portion of the piston (especially around the oil control ring) runs hotter (160ºC) than

target (120ºC).

4. The oil flow in the oil control ring area is quickly restricted by any carbon particles reducing

lubrication, cooling and ‘flushing action’.

This in turn causes degradation of oil in the ring groove, further accelerating the sticking process.

These factors cause the oil in the oil control ring groove to degrade faster leading to sticking of the oil

control rings.

This fault exists in all prefacelift 1zz-fe engine, but it does not mean that you are dead certain to get the issue. Some people on here have no problems what so ever and are up in the 100k and haved burnt extra oil. Others unfortunately have. If you notice your celica burns alot of oil you have a few options:

1. Keep topping it up and take the hit on the oil costs

2. Try seafoam or similar products to clean and flush out the engine internals to clear out the carbon/piston rings. This has been known to slow the process

3. Replace the engine - do NOT get a recon (the engine is flawed as it is). Preferably get a facelift engine or a new one if anything.

4. Do a 190 conversion (not much extra cost to an engine swap - just need an ecu and a few other bits)