Check Abs System

[Manlord]

Hi all,

Long time lurker but new poster.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I do know peoples time is valuable.

Long story short!

Check ABS light would come on every now and again while driving and go off with no real pattern.

Over time (1 year) the wife has now told me that it is on all the time.

The car starts up and no warning light present. As soon as you touch the brake pedal it goes on. This happens while stationary or moving.

The car is a petrol 2006 Rav4. It is going in for an nct / mot next week and will fail on this I'm sure of it. I have booked it in for a service this Saturady and would like to be prepared for a mechanics money spinning "must do" fixes!!!!

Any ideas folks?

Thanks again.

W

[Hoovie]

I don't know if it is the case (it shouldn't really!) but have you checked the brake bulbs are working ok?

I had a Celica which illuminated the brake warning light as soon as I put the brakes on and stayed on until ignition was turned off, and then next time car started, same again.

Checked all sorts of thing, like fluid reservoir etc and eventually noticed one of the brake lamps had blown! Doh!

[Manlord]

I don't know if it is the case (it shouldn't really!) but have you checked the brake bulbs are working ok?

I had a Celica which illuminated the brake warning light as soon as I put the brakes on and stayed on until ignition was turned off, and then next time car started, same again.

Checked all sorts of thing, like fluid reservoir etc and eventually noticed one of the brake lamps had blown! Doh!

It's the first thing I will check when the boss gets home.

Thanks.

[anchorman]

The most common problem is with the brake light switch but occasionally ABS sensors play up.

There is no bulb warning system on a RAV.

[Manlord]

Ok so i went home & checked the lights. all working fine except the top LED light. Obviously a problem with it as it would be almost impossible for all of the 5-6 seperate LED's to blow. Disconnected it and reconnected it but still nothing. I honestly dont know when or how long it has been off.

Checked manual and found fuse box for that set of lights (under passo glove box) and again what a nightmare that box is. trying to get the fuses out is almost impossible. Anyway the 10a fuse was ok - both of them were actually so no fuse gone.

Does any of this info narrow it down a little in your opinions gents?????

I suppose I should find some loose gravel and see what happens? i.e lock up the wheels to see if the ABS is actually working or not?

I know I should just get the codes read but as its in for a service on saturday I just wanted to see if it could be fixed easily rather than run the risk of being robbed by the stealers - sorry dealers :-p

Thanks again for any info or advice.

W

[Bezzer]

You can read certain faults by bridging contacts on the diagnostic plug yourself, have a look at my problem from a week or so ago and see what you get it might point you in the right direction. Mine was an intermittent brake light switch problem that I managed to sort with a new switch.

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=136908

[junebug1701]

My guess would be the stop light switch on the brake pedal is failing. Bridging the OBD port with a jumper wire to get the code would prove that.

Also, I agree those fuses under the dash require a contortionist. However, in one of the fuse boxes in the engine compartment you may find a little white fuse puller tool. Helps when you have fat fingers like me.

[Hoovie]

I had the ABS warning come on twice in my 2011 RAV4 (posted info in an earlier thread) and my EOBD reader did not pick up any fault codes whatsoever.

IIRC, the light came on very soon after starting off both times. I don't think it came on as soon as I started the car (point of saying that is that on my Auto, you HAVE to press the brake pedal to start the car) but could have been on the first brake depression after setting off?

I never really got to the bottom of it, but I disconnected a bluetooth EOBD reader that I though *could* have cause radio interference and cross-talk and not happened since, but that may well be total co-incidence.

You could check the ABS is working on any road by stamping on the brakes hard at speed and see if the brake pedal starts 'shaking'

[Manlord]

My guess would be the stop light switch on the brake pedal is failing. Bridging the OBD port with a jumper wire to get the code would prove that.

Also, I agree those fuses under the dash require a contortionist. However, in one of the fuse boxes in the engine compartment you may find a little white fuse puller tool. Helps when you have fat fingers like me.

A fuse puller tool - Now you tell me

Jumper wire? a quick how to if you would be so kind?

[Manlord]

My guess would be the stop light switch on the brake pedal is failing. Bridging the OBD port with a jumper wire to get the code would prove that.

Also, I agree those fuses under the dash require a contortionist. However, in one of the fuse boxes in the engine compartment you may find a little white fuse puller tool. Helps when you have fat fingers like me.

A fuse puller tool - Now you tell me

Jumper wire? a quick how to if you would be so kind?

[Bezzer]

Look under the dash on the drivers side near to the bonnet pull and you'll see the white diagnostic plug. 16 terminals in 2 rows of 8. Left to right top one is 1-8 bottom is 9-16.

Ignition off,

Put short length of thin wire to jumper 4 to 13

Ignition on

Then use odo reset button to scroll through the 7 or 8 types - ABS, 4WD, VSC etc. They will either have a fault code with them or "F/F" for fault free.

Write down which category has which number fault.

[Manlord]

Look under the dash on the drivers side near to the bonnet pull and you'll see the white diagnostic plug. 16 terminals in 2 rows of 8. Left to right top one is 1-8 bottom is 9-16.

Ignition off,

Put short length of thin wire to jumper 4 to 13

Ignition on

Then use odo reset button to scroll through the 7 or 8 types - ABS, 4WD, VSC etc. They will either have a fault code with them or "F/F" for fault free.

Write down which category has which number fault.

Appreciate that mate. will do this tonight and update thread when I'm done. i actually used a OBD reader which works fine on my BMW but it showed up no faults the other day but I put this down to the reader not being the correct unit for Toyota although the pins are the same fitment.

Cheers

W

[Manlord]

Ok so bridges the contact 4 & 13 and this is

ABS 49

P/S 41

4WD F/F

Cruise F/F

VSC (no number or F/F)

Airbag F/F

Can we make anything from this lads?

2 faults found AFAIK

From Beezer's previous thread posted in an earlier post it seems we have exactly the same faults but my VSC is clear (I think)

Looks like the switch is the problem as mentioned earlier too.

If someone can just confirm what I suspect I can order one off eBay and fit it myself like Beezer and hopefully have the same result as he did. The stealers would want a minimum of €150 to supply and fit I imagine.

thoughts gents?

Thanks as usual

W

[anchorman]

ABS49 is "open circuit stop light switch".

PS41 is "lost communication with fuel injector control module" which I think will be a result of ABS49.

[Manlord]

Thanks Mr.Burgandy :P

I presume this is what i need??????????

[Bezzer]

Yep that's the one I bought, paid the 99p delivery instead of free to save waiting and got it next day :)

As I said in the other post it's same plug fitting and sizes but is screw/nut instead of twistlock but it does just slot straight into the plastic bracket insert and bolts up. Don't do what I did when I first tried to remove the old one and tried to unscrew the insert, you just take the switch out from the top by twisting it half a turn. <_< .

You've got 2 out of the three faults I had so whether it is the switch full stop isn't certain and it may be something more with just the one hi level light not working, But I would say it's worth a go replacing it.

[Manlord]

Yep that's the one I bought, paid the 99p delivery instead of free to save waiting and got it next day :)

As I said in the other post it's same plug fitting and sizes but is screw/nut instead of twistlock but it does just slot straight into the plastic bracket insert and bolts up. Don't do what I did when I first tried to remove the old one and tried to unscrew the insert, you just take the switch out from the top by twisting it half a turn. <_< .

You've got 2 out of the three faults I had so whether it is the switch full stop isn't certain and it may be something more with just the one hi level light not working, But I would say it's worth a go replacing it.

just bought it and paid for the delivery so get to IRL by Monday / Tuesday. I'll still get the car serviced but will tell them to leave the faults or maybe just get them to check it and see what they come back with. I'll fit myself either way.

Mick, whats the exact location of the switch - Drivers side above pedals?? Can you see it or just a fumble in the dark mate?

EDIT: Checked your post. location sorted.

[junebug1701]

I had the ABS warning come on twice in my 2011 RAV4 (posted info in an earlier thread) and my EOBD reader did not pick up any fault codes whatsoever.

That's correct, Hoovie. Any error code in the ABS or TRAC system will be stored in the skid control ECU. Most code readers can only detect codes that turn on the check engine light (MIL), because those codes are stored in the engine computer. Some of the newer code readers that feature "advanced Toyota codes" are able to read the ABS codes. The CAN bus makes this possible, since all the ECM's are connected together on the bus.

[Manlord]

ok so got the wife's car serviced.......................needs new pads & discs (not sure it needs discs), wipers (easy myself) , fuel pipe (???), brake switch (bought it and arrived today), 2 new tyres (getting saturday myself) so when I fit the switch tonight I'm hopefully going to see the ABS disappear and never return. The rear brake light led is apparently gone and needs replacing also.

More to come................................

[Manlord]

Update:

Just got a call from the dealership

Discs & pads €354 inc vat OEM type, will have price on spurious tomorrow

Fuel pipe €276

LED top rear light €146

Brake switch(bought for €19) €68

Now I am of the opinion that the discs & pads can be done by me but have never done this on a Rav4 before. I have only ever changed brake pads on a BMW 3 series & an Nissan Almera. Any thoughts on this part of the job gents?

The fuel pipe I have no idea about but I suspect that it will cause an NCT/MOT fail? Ideas again would be apreciated

LED brake light (full unit) needs replacing but surely this can be done on eBay as its just a plug & play type????

Brake switch will be in the car within the next two hours. Just waiting on herself to get home from work.

To say I'm pi**ed is an understatement.

Bad timing financially as always but if I can reduce this with help from members here it would be great.

Rgds

W

[Davrav]

Have a look in the pinned section to see what is involved in replacing front discs and pads Warren.

Rears have the parking brake shoes inside so a bit more of a wriggle..........

[Manlord]

Have a look in the pinned section to see what is involved in replacing front discs and pads Warren.

Rears have the parking brake shoes inside so a bit more of a wriggle..........

Thanks pal. Will do ;)

Ok so i just fitted the brake switch and guess what????

It worked B)

The ABS light went out but as a bonus the LED high level brake light also started working perfectly - even though I was told i needed one for the amount shown in my previous post :censor: :censor:

This now gives me doubts about the fuel line pipe and the discs they said i needed. I'm by no means an ametuer as I am a fully qualified mechanical engineer but I'll get to the bottom of all these issues in good time. I will change the pads and send her through the NCT/MOT and see if it passes. it runs very well and is immaculate inside & out so all this worry may be due to an over eager money grabbing Toyota dealer

pics attached for posterity...........

Old switch that needs to be screwed out

New switch dropped into housing and bolted tight

Brake pedal applied and contact broken thus triggering brake lights and switch

Rear LED high level "broken" light fixed

Footwell guard that needs to be removed prior to fitting

My little co-spanner man

The last thing I would like to say is that Mick told me lies about how to fit it. He said 30 minutes. It does not take 30 minutes. it takes 8 minutes

[Davrav]

The last thing I would like to say is that Mick told me lies about how to fit it. He said 30 minutes. It does not take 30 minutes. it takes 8 minutes

Yeah but Mick didn't exploit child labour

[Manlord]

The last thing I would like to say is that Mick told me lies about how to fit it. He said 30 minutes. It does not take 30 minutes. it takes 8 minutes

Yeah but Mick didn't exploit child labour

This is true but I did have to Shell out for a 99 when the local Mr Whippy arrived :P

got one myself too

[anchorman]

The discs and pads should cost about £120 from a motor factor and they are dead easy. Ask the mechanic to show you the pipe and if its in reasonable nick, clean it up and waxoyl it.