Cyclists On Zebra Crossings.

[Chris Dance]

I nealy hit a cyclist yesterday. She was cycling on the pavement but suddenly turned and rode across a zebra crossing. I thought it was illegal for cyclists to ride across zebra crossings and to cross they had to dismount. I wonder how I would stand legally if I had hit her. Good job the Prius has excellent brakes. I would be interested to hear other folks views on this matter.

[stompe]

I nealy hit a cyclist yesterday. She was cycling on the pavement but suddenly turned and rode across a zebra crossing. I thought it was illegal for cyclists to ride across zebra crossings and to cross they had to dismount. I wonder how I would stand legally if I had hit her. Good job the Prius has excellent brakes. I would be interested to hear other folks views on this matter.

Hi Chris

I think its about time they was made to take out insurance, and take a test, the standard of cyclists as deteriorated beyond belief, my biggest gripe is when they don't use the cycle path, or ride two abreast, i know what i would do!

[Sagitar]

I nealy hit a cyclist yesterday. She was cycling on the pavement but suddenly turned and rode across a zebra crossing. I thought it was illegal for cyclists to ride across zebra crossings and to cross they had to dismount. I wonder how I would stand legally if I had hit her. Good job the Prius has excellent brakes. I would be interested to hear other folks views on this matter.

I don't thing views need to come into it. It is covered clearly in the Highway Code - as follows:

64 You MUST NOT cycle on a pavement.

[Laws HA 1835 sect 72 & R(S)A 1984, sect 129]

So she was breaking the law to start with. This is not advisory, it is a MUST NOT.

When it comes to crossings, it depends upon the kind of crossing and there is extensive advice for cyclists in the Code as follows:

Crossing the road

79 Do not ride across equestrian crossings, as they are for horse riders only. Do not ride across a pelican, puffin or zebra crossing. Dismount and wheel your cycle across.

80 Toucan crossings. These are light-controlled crossings which allow cyclists and pedestrians to share crossing space and cross at the same time. They are push-button operated. Pedestrians and cyclists will see the green signal together. Cyclists are permitted to ride across.

81 Cycle-only crossings. Cycle tracks on opposite sides of the road may be linked by signalled crossings. You may ride across but you MUST NOT cross until the green cycle symbol is showing.

[Law TSRGD regs 33(2) & 36(1)]

The key thing about the Toucan crossing as far as a motorist is concerned, is that it is light controlled and pedestrians or cyclists should only be crossing when cars are stopped by a red light.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I nealy hit a cyclist yesterday. She was cycling on the pavement but suddenly turned and rode across a zebra crossing. I thought it was illegal for cyclists to ride across zebra crossings and to cross they had to dismount. I wonder how I would stand legally if I had hit her.

Another reason to get a dash cam :)

One of my ex taxi driver colleagues successfully sued a cyclist for damage to his car when he slowly pulled out of someones drive way to enter the road just as a cyclist came whizzing down the path who couldn't stop, hit the front wing and went flying over the bonnet. Cyclist was OK but Police were called as you need to do in ANY incident with a cyclist, and the car damage was covered by the cyclists parents household insurance. The cyclist was a 15 year old boy.

Thankfully there were witnesses who said the bike was on the path not the road, otherwise it could have gone the other way very easily. If you're a professional driver or just cover a lot of miles, you should seriously consider a HD dash cam. They're only a couple hundred quid if that, but could pay for themselves in an accident.

[Chris Dance]

Trouble seems to be Sagitar the law is never enforced. Cyclists these days seem to ues the pavements and zebra crossings all the time. The cycle lanes on our local roads are a joke. Cyclists cannot use them as the school mums abandon their cars and block the roads and cycle lanes. The young "plastic police" young ladies stand by and watch the mayhem.

[Cyker]

I'd much rather the law was changed so you can't cycle on the road unless you're going at a speed that would be dangerous to pedestrians. I really hate it when there's some guy with panniers and shopping bags cycling at walking pace on a busy narrow road.

The law for zebra crossings needs to be addressed too; I've nearly hit pedestrians who suddenly spot a bus and sprint without warning across the crossing.

The law needs to be clear that cars have to give way to pedestrians on zebra crossings but pedestrians make it clear they wish to cross and wait for it to be safe before they cross and not just go for it.

I love pedestrians that make a point of using the greencross code before crossing zebras because it gives me lots of advance warning so I can slow at a nice gentle pace.

I hate idiot mums who are chatting RIGHT NEXT to the zebra crossing with their prams so I'm not sure whether to stop or not, so I lift off just in case, and still have to suddenly brake because they suddenly decide to cross and push their prams onto the zebra crossing WHILE STILL TALKING AND WITHOUT LOOKING when I'm literally right next to the crossing when they had 200m of space to cross before I got there!

RAAAAAAAA!!!

(I'm slightly narked right now because that is exactly what happened to me on the way back home today. Half the time they just stand there chatting and then move on but there's always a time when they just cross with no warning. If I hadn't anticipated such a boneheaded move and my Yaris didn't have such great braking their child would have been knocked over! What kind of mother just pushes their pram into any road without looking FFS?! I'm amazed more of them don't get killed since most of the other drivers on that road don't seem to show such awareness...!)

[r04drunner1]

Great post Sagitar. That's a keeper.

[wass]

So often the case, there are plenty of laws and regulations which cover various issues but problems seem to arrise due to those laws not being observed,policed or enforced.

Cyclists, for example, are in the most part , unaware of the highway code because there isnt a statutory test which encourages them to learn it: on the other face of the same coin, if the cyclists were faced with having to pay hefty fines for breaking the highway code, they would learn the highway code in order to avoid breaking it hence no new law would be required.

The same thing is happening in towns and villages. Accidents are happening in certain areas and so the speed limits are being lowered from 30 to 20mph. What is missing is that if the 30mph limit were to be strictly observed and enforced there wouldnt be so many accidents. What is currently happening is that the people who were routinely streaming through the area at 40mph are still doing so and those persons who were abiding by the speed limit of 30mph are now abiding by the speed limit of 20 mph whilst cyclists are overtaking at 25mph because the laws still arent being enforced!

[Dacre]

Interesting replies - are any of you cyclists?

Yes, she shouldn't be riding across the crossing, she should dismount and push it across - and yes cycling on the pavement is illegal.

As a Prius driver and a cyclist who commutes into London occasionally, I see bad cyclists and I see bad drivers.

I hate the cyclists

who jump red lights,

who tear down the canal tow path scattering walkers and other cyclists around them,

the cyclists who ride two abreast at 9mph holding up traffic behind them

I hate drivers

who sit in the middle lane on motorways when there is no one to over take

who park on the zigzags by pedestrian crossings and don't realise that it is a 3 point offence

who rev their engines behind me when I am riding down the road at 17mph 1 metre from the parked cars so holding them up for 10 seconds - I'm sorry I've taken those 10 precious seconds from your life - what were you going to do with the time? Cyker - how long did he hold you up for?

I have loads more hates for things I see cyclists and drivers doing but I don't want to swamp the board!

Yes there are bad cyclists and yes there are bad drivers - the bad drivers vastly out number the cyclists!

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Yes there are bad cyclists and yes there are bad drivers - the bad drivers vastly out number the cyclists!

lol I guess you're a cyclist?

Why does it always come back to bad drivers? But regardless of who is wrong or right either legally or morally, a cyclist is going to come off worse, often much worse in any accident. So WHY do some (not all) ride like idiots as discussed above? I had an incident only yesterday when I'd picked my kids up where an old bloke on a cycle just swung right out in front of me across the other side of the road, almost getting run over by both me and the guy coming the other way? Both drivers sat there stunned for a couple seconds, shook our heads at each other before going on our way. I'm sure the old boy was totally oblivious to how close he came to meeting his maker and putting an innocent person at the mercy of stressful legal action to sort out his mess. He'll probably be grumbling about drivers not giving him enough room etc.

Easy solution to this is remember to look out for each other, that cyclists aren't annoying idiots who shouldn't be on the roads but are people but that not all car drivers or taxi drivers are out to get cyclists either. I always give room and hold back if needed and don't appreciate being tarred with the same brush as the baddies. I even had compliments from passengers who happened to be cyclists :)

And going back to the dash cam, I believe cyclists can also get these for the same reasons. A HD version ensures you have a better chance of recording the bad drivers number plate - shame the same can't be said of the cyclist.

[Dacre]

Yes there are bad cyclists and yes there are bad drivers - the bad drivers vastly out number the cyclists!

lol I guess you're a cyclist?

Why does it always come back to bad drivers? But regardless of who is wrong or right either legally or morally, a cyclist is going to come off worse, often much worse in any accident. So WHY do some (not all) ride like idiots as discussed above? I had an incident only yesterday when I'd picked my kids up where an old bloke on a cycle just swung right out in front of me across the other side of the road, almost getting run over by both me and the guy coming the other way? Both drivers sat there stunned for a couple seconds, shook our heads at each other before going on our way. I'm sure the old boy was totally oblivious to how close he came to meeting his maker and putting an innocent person at the mercy of stressful legal action to sort out his mess. He'll probably be grumbling about drivers not giving him enough room etc.

Easy solution to this is remember to look out for each other, that cyclists aren't annoying idiots who shouldn't be on the roads but are people but that not all car drivers or taxi drivers are out to get cyclists either. I always give room and hold back if needed and don't appreciate being tarred with the same brush as the baddies. I even had compliments from passengers who happened to be cyclists :)

And going back to the dash cam, I believe cyclists can also get these for the same reasons. A HD version ensures you have a better chance of recording the bad drivers number plate - shame the same can't be said of the cyclist.

GC - sorry if I came over as a cyclist with a grudge against drivers - I don't - I do far more miles in my Prius than I do on my bike so I am a driver first and cyclist second. Bad cyclists and bad drivers really annoy me.

I wish more drivers were like you and gave cyclists room - we are all entitled to be on the road - we all just need to slow down a little and give our fellow road users more time and space

[Cyker]

@Dacre - I don't know; It felt like forever but in reality may not have been so long

I just thought he was being stupid; He was clearly overloaded and struggling to pedal the thing even at the low gearing (The road in question has a slight gradient and that combined with the heavy load he was carrying meant his legs were going round faster than this wheels were! I would have gotten off and pushed on the pavement if I was in that situation!).

I was giving him a respectful distance since it was not safe to pass due to the other side being full of oncoming cars, but he was going slower than my car's idle speed so I had to crawl behind him on the clutch up the incline!

To be fair, this guy was a rarity; Usually it's guys on racers who can keep up a decent pace and so don't hold me up. My driving style is pretty compatible with those kinds of cyclists since I'm trying to squeeze as much mpg out of the diesel as I can and will happily let 4th idle down to their speeds.

(Usually they're overtaking me left and right while I'm in traffic! )

I do think the law should be changed to allow cyclists to ride on the pavement tho', albeit at fast walking pace tops. That said I'm sure it was changed a year or so ago to say that it was legal to ride on the pavement for sections of road where it would be dangerous to ride on the road...?

[Chris Dance]

I actually saw a police car stop today to allow a cyclist to cycle across a pelican crossing!! So much for laws.

[stompe]

Sorry i don't understand why cyclists have a right to be on the road! they don't pay nothing towards them and the roads today are not made for them.

[Cyker]

Well as long as they don't act like dicks then I'm fine with it; You wouldn't want a commuting cyclist on the same pavement as your grandmother!

A leisure cyclist OTOH would be okay.

But hey, on the way home I was coming up to a zebra and a cyclist (Who was on the pavement!) cycled up to it, stopped, dismounted and waited!

See? They're not all bad! ;)

I totally stopped to let him pass :D

[Sagitar]

I actually saw a police car stop today to allow a cyclist to cycle across a pelican crossing!! So much for laws.

Are you sure it was a Pelican and not a Toucan?

Whichever it was, they each display a red light to traffic, so I am guessing that the Police car stopped because there was a red light showing, rather than because of the particular person who was crossing?

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Sorry i don't understand why cyclists have a right to be on the road! they don't pay nothing towards them and the roads today are not made for them.

Erm because the cyclists were here before cars? Road tax isn't for roads anyhow, it's just a scam tax and despite not being a cyclist myself, I would guess a lot of cyclists are actually car owners too as are the other derided road using group, horse riders.

And if we're going to be pedantic about it, we don't have a right to be on the roads as we too don't pay anything towards them; most hybrids have £0 road tax rating! :)

Where's the love guys? We're often ridiculed or 'hated' by traditional car owners because we don't pay as much tax as they do in their gas guzzlers, yet we're grumbling about bicycle riders not paying their way either? Come on there's more important stuff to worry about out there at the moment.

[Sagitar]

Sorry i don't understand why cyclists have a right to be on the road! they don't pay nothing towards them and the roads today are not made for them.

We all have a right to be on the roads. They are funded from general taxation and we all contribute to their creation and maintenance.

Confusion arises because vehicle owners pay vehicle excise duty, which is just another form of taxation (like many others that you could name - tobacco, alcohol, petrol, stamp duty etc) and has almost nothing to do with road costs.

The current primary basis for VED is emissions and since pedal cycles don't emit, there is a logical basis for them not paying.

I think there is a stronger argument for requiring cyclists to carry third party insurance, but it presents huge administrative problems.

[Sagitar]

I do think the law should be changed to allow cyclists to ride on the pavement tho', albeit at fast walking pace tops. That said I'm sure it was changed a year or so ago to say that it was legal to ride on the pavement for sections of road where it would be dangerous to ride on the road...?

I cannot find any reference to such a change in the Highway Code and it sounds most unlikely. I suspect that the confusion arises out of the guidance given to police officers and PCOs to use discretion when dealing with a situation where a cyclist deems it too dangerous to ride on the road and decides to ride on the pavement in circumstances that cause no danger to pedestrians. Do you have a reference?

One of the problems of the internet is that this kind of comment gets repeated and comes up in search engines and people start to believe it. The current law appears to be very simple - it is illegal to cycle on pavements. Whether you get prosecuted for it will depend on a whole range of issues. If an individual decides that cycling on the road is too dangerous, then the simple answer is to dismount and walk on the pavement.

[timberwolf]

When is a pavement, not a pavement? Seems like a reasonably well researched article. The very fact that there is lots of confusion should illustrate that the laws are not simple. http://www.bikehub.co.uk/featured-articles/cycling-and-the-law/

[Sagitar]

When is a pavement, not a pavement? Seems like a reasonably well researched article. The very fact that there is lots of confusion should illustrate that the laws are not simple. http://www.bikehub.c...ng-and-the-law/

The HIghway Code uses the term "pavement", but you have to dig into the Road Traffic Acts etc to find definitions and it is fairly clear that they are talking about a pavement by the side of a road. The lawyers have a field-day with it, naturally, but it is pretty clear that riding a bike on a pavement is illegal.

[RobMagpie]

Except of course where they turn the pavement into a cycle path with a separate lane for pedestrians like they have done near me! But then many cyclists still decide to use the road.

[Chris Dance]

Sagitar, You guessed correctly the police car and myself were facing a red light at the crossing.

[timberwolf]

Yes, where I live we have some dual purpose "pavements", but without the lines.

[Sagitar]

Yes, where I live we have some dual purpose "pavements", but without the lines.

My only experience of "unsegregated" use is on cycle tracks (rather than lanes) and these have always been away from roads. I have walked many miles on the route of the old Keswick railway line and that is an unsegregated track for pedestrians and cyclist, but it is clearly not a pavement. Similarly we have public rights of way locally that are designated for cyclists as well as pedestrians (and sometimes horse riders), but again they are tracks rather than pavements. Some of them get quite close to roads (a few metres) but they are not adjacent. Some of these rights of way cross streets and roads, but there are always signs marking the end of the right of way at the point where it joins the road and once past those signs, the normal rules on segregation apply.

We have several places locally where part of the pavement has been used to create a cycle lane, with the appropriate lines and signage, but then the cycle lane is no longer part of the pavement.

Are you saying that you have pavements by the side of roads that have been designated by the local authority for unsegregated use by both pedestrians and cyclists? That would be a new one on me and raises some interesting questions. How is the beginning and end of the dual use signed?