Upgrading 3Zzfe To1Zzfe

[phatali]

Hi guys. I want to do what a few people have done to make the 3zz 1.6 into 1.8 by replacing crank, pistons and con rods from a 1zzfe.

I want to make a thread thats only to do with this conversion as iv been reading bits off here there and everywhere!

First thing, i need to ask a few qns. When people say 1zzfe celica bits, i search that and find bits for avensis and mr2...soooo that means if i wanted the crank out of a avensis it would be exactly the same as celica and mr2 yes?

Second thing..if the above is all well and good and i think ooo now i want the intake manifold with throtle body i can pick from celica, mr2 or avensis right?

For now il leave it there but slowly i will build up my collection of bits and try to do a step by step guide so it will help everyone!

[Steven252]

Yes all 1zz engines use the same crank/rods/pistons.

The 4zz/3zz/1zz are all essentially the same engine. So everything from one will fit the other.

1zz intake manifold and exhaust manifold are larger items and will bolt on.

The exhaust manifold will require your 3zz/4zz exhaust being modified as the pre cat is bigger so doesnt bolt straight up.

The 1zz throttle body is a larger item BUT you must make sure its a cable operated item (of a early corolla or celica) as the later cars are fly by wire items.

1zz fuel injectors are slightly larger (20cc IIRC) and have a different spray pattern and again will fit straight in.

You can keep your 4zz/3zz ecu as they are self learning ecus (up to a point) to run at 1zz engine. This saves having keys/alarm/ecu reprogrammed as its costly.

Hope this helps you :)

[phatali]

You my friend are a bad man indeed. Your reply has answered all my qns! But now i have one more....when you say i can fit rhe injectors too, iv heard the ecu needs to be re programmed or is this not true.

[Steven252]

Some throw up a fault code some dont.

EXS on here has a 3zz with 1zz inlet and throttle body including 1zz injectors and it runs fine.

Madvinger has a 4zz converted to a full 1zz (in a 4zz engine block) inc the injectors and it runs fine.

My understandment on the 1zz injectors is this (i might be wrong) is that when 1zz injectors are fitted to a standard 3/4zz engine it throws a fault code up as both the air to fuel ratio is incorrect and it reads that a higher voltage is being taken my the 1zz injectors compared to what the 3/4zz would take. This then makes the ecu think something is wrong hense going into limp mode.

When a 1zz inlet/throttle body is fitted the car can recieve more air naturally hense putting the air fuel ratio correct and voltages within tollerances - therefore throwing up no fault codes.

Thats the only explination i can think of the injector issue.

Ive heavily researched both the 1zz and 2zz for our cars as i initially wanted to do one to mine. But no im just going all out with a 3sgte conversion ;)

[phatali]

Right im with you. So in a way if the 1zz injectors were fitted only, itl throw a fit but if its gettin the right amount of air by fitting the 1zz intake in theory its all good in the hood!

My mate who works for toyota in York keeps telling me to put the 3sgte in but i think thats a diff ball game! Thanks for your prompt reply btw!

[Steven252]

Ye personally i think 3sgte is prob the best route of the two in terms of power to money, but its not a straight forward conversion like the 1zz is.

1zz will cost you about £1000 for around 150bhp, straight swop.

2zz your looking at £2200 for around 200bhp, straight swop but ALOT of wiring head aches in an SR.

3sgte will cost about £2000 for 300bhp + but theres alot more work than the other two and you will have to source parts from about 6 different cars to get it to fit. Thats running it as FWD with a MR2 LSD gearbox. If you want to go 4wd using celica running gear add another £1500 to it.

[phatali]

Damn yea i think il stick to 1zz conversion!

Am i also right in saying the bearings for the 1zz crank are the same as 3zz/4zz?

[Steven252]

No the 1zz bearings (shells) are different as the crank is bigger. But no modification is needed for them to fit :)

[phatali]

Sweeeeeeet! Right thanks for all the info!

[EXS]

i would just get a complete 1zz engine and drop it in.... much less stress than re-building the 3zz ;) .... btw i think the celica and mr2 mk3 got a bit better flow than the avensis... bigger valves ect

[Steven252]

i would just get a complete 1zz engine and drop it in.... much less stress than re-building the 3zz ;) .... btw i think the celica and mr2 mk3 got a bit better flow than the avensis... bigger valves ect

Im 90% the cylinder head/valves/cams are all the same for the 4zz/3zz/1zz. I believe the avensis uses a different ecu map than the other 2 hense being a couple of bhp less.

Yes id get a complete engine from a corolla idealy as i think that the mr2 has a different pully arangement. Not that it matters as you can use your 3zz anyway ;)

[phatali]

Yea i was thinking it would be easier to drop a1zz straight in but im wanting to keep the orig 3zz.

So in a way you guys advise bits from celica or corolla 1zz. Im going hunting in scraps tmro so im going to look for intake and injectors from either of them.

[phatali]

Guys is a E1z avensis not a 1zz im really confused. Its a 1.8 vvti 03 plate

[Steven252]

If its a 1.8 vvti then it will be a 1zz. Itll look identical to your 3zz engine

[phatali]

Thats what i thought but on the block it didnt say 1zz instead E1z

[phatali]

Guys got another qn, the con rods are they pressed into the pistons. So if i bought the pistons new and the con rods new do i have to get them pressed to connect them or is it circlip.

[Steven252]

Youve got me on that one!

I believe they are push fit but im chancing a 50/50 on that

If your going for new pistons/rods you might aswell forge it and run a turbo. Wont work out much more!

[phatali]

Lol id of thought forged would be way out of my price range.

Hmmm the only reason i want brand new pistons is to not have this issue of oil burning that i have in my 3zz and read about on the 1zz.....guess new piston rings and a good clean could stop that right?

[Steven252]

They changed the piston design in 03 IIRC so get some seconfld hand ones from a car thats newer than a 03. Toyota charge around £100 per piston new iirc so itd work out the same. Id go second hand anyway

Yes new piston rings are required when you change the pistons anyway. You have to gap these to the bores and then hone the cylinders for them to bed in.

[phatali]

Right thats some good advice dude. But im confused about beding them in. Im not mechanic minded at all you see! Electronics now thats more my game. Il check out youtube to get an idea.

[Steven252]

You hone the cylinder with a honing tool to scratch it in a criss cross pattern, so when the new piston rings rub up against it the scratches shave them into a perfect seal, between piston and cylinder. Youll have to have a running in period once rebuilt to do this. So on first start up let it get up to temperature, next 400 miles very slow gentle pressure up to 2.5krpm then next 400 miles start slowly easing it up to 4krpm then last 200 miles ease it all the way. Do an oil and filter change at 1000 miles and shes ready to be given death.

To gap rings you need to get a feeler gauge (i got one of ebay) and basically push the ring into the bore on its own using the top of a upside down piston. You then measure the gap in the ring at 30% down 50% down and 70% down the cylinder wall to make sure the bore is still cylindrical. Then you need to file the ring to get the desired piston ring gap (these are given with new rings)

Ive this a few times on previous cars now, and each one worked perfect after. I took loads of photos when i rebuilt a x16 1.6 astra engine which are on my laptop and i can post pictures of what i did and what you need to do if it helps :)

[phatali]

Ok i get what your meaning now. Thats a great explanation indeed! Would be wicked if you did post them pics up it would be real clear to me then. Thanks dude the info you have given me through this thread has been spot on. :D

[phatali]

Guys the crank from a 1zz is not the same as 3zz right....well this has confused me. Check the link to eBay.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toyota-1ZZ-FE-3ZZ-FE-crankshaft-/251113249680?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D767098777731912220%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26

Also. If im changing the crank, the timing chain will come off. But to get it off /on do i need special tools and when putting it back on how do you go about timing it back up?

[Steven252]

The 1zz crank is completely different to the 3zz one.

No special tools required but i would be marking the cams with tip ex with the pistons at half bore before you take apart rather than at TDC TBH but what ever works for you :)

[phatali]

The 1zz crank is completely different to the 3zz one.

No special tools required but i would be marking the cams with tip ex with the pistons at half bore before you take apart rather than at TDC TBH but what ever works for you :)

Thanks for clearing that up dude.

Right, good news i dnt need to have special tools. Good advice with the tipex. Also if u get a chance can you post them pics up ? Thanks mate!